Project Sansar

[Tamar Luminos]

This is the Wired article comparing Sansar to High Fidelity. Ebbe comes off like a dick, and Sansar is honestly sounding less and less like something I'd be interested in, sadly.

Second Life was just the beginning. Philip Rosedale is back and he's delving into VR

If High Fidelity's avatars didn't look so awful (rubbery cartoonish) I'd check it out. And honestly, having seen a couple of Sansar's avatars (the only pic I've found that shows any av's in Sansar)- they look about as bad. That coupled with zero interest in VR for me means I'll probably be sticking with SL for the foreseeable future for my roleplay fun times.



Ah well. Makes me appreciate Second Life, at least even if I feel a bit less enthusiastic supporting Ebbe after seeing his comments in the Wired article, which appear to show a complete lack of understanding of Second Life and why it was/is popular and what the users want out of it.

[Tantus]

The distinction the article doesn't make clear is, High Fidelity will only be for VR headset users. It limits you to:
- Time spent wearing a headset = 1-2 hour sessions before you need to disengage.
- Cost of a VR capable PC = $1500+
- Cost of VR headset = $700 +controllers, for HTC Vive or Oculus Rift

I haven't checked the US pricing so those figures are an estimate. High Fidelity's growth is limited by the sales of VR Headsets, which remains a fragile market. No one knows if it'll go bust in 2 years time or continue to sell.

The advantage of High Fidelity is, you can install the server on your PC and you can run it locally for zero-lag-VR. It'll be the product for schools and institutions who can make educational use of VR environments. But, Microsoft's Hololens will be competing for the educational segment too.


Project Sansar is primarily a sequel to SL, with greater control over content and the application. And it's also compatible with VR Headsets. Should VR flop by 2018, Project Sansar will roll onwards as it's not exclusively a VR platform. So, Sansar will be closed source(No more Third Party Viewers, only that mess of a Facebook/Twitter/Flickr interface Linden Lab's have crammed into their official viewer) And no more building in world.

Sansar will allow for content creators to create in professional applications, import their work into Sansar and sell it - as already happens in SL! People make too much of Second Life's 'collaborative creativity'. Most residents in SL are content-consumers, they don't stand on sandbox sims building prims together.

Sansar's residents can rent space, purchase objects from the marketplace, wear it/rez it/use it and do what they did in SL. The difference is, sims will be larger and handle more avatars, the game should run smoother(The performance optimisations for VR will benefit all users), enhanced integration between sims and web services. And Linden Labs will generate revenues from transactions and profit more than they did from SL's economy.

Ebbe does present himself as a parody of ignorant CEOs! Otherwise it's going in a positive direction, even sim owners will have more control over their experience.

[Tamar Luminos]

Another related article from New World Notes: High Fidelity Adds "Ready Room" for Customizable Avatars

HiFi has partnered with Morph3D to improve their avatars. This seems promising.

Tantus- are you certain HF is just for VR? This blurb seems to indicate that most things will be accessible with keyboard and mouse setup, though VR peripherials are recommended for "best experience".

High Fidelity is available for Windows, Mac OS, and Linux. High Fidelity virtual worlds are designed to be immersive and while most things can be accomplished with a keyboard/mouse and traditional monitor, to get the best experience, we recommend adding hardware typically used to enjoy VR experiences (head mounted display, hand controller, audio headset) to your setup.

from here.

If HF is VR only, that sucks. Don't plan on delving into VR any time soon. Just don't have any interest in it, myself.

[Glaucon]

I have zero interest in wearing a VR headset. I mean... how will I drink coffee while playing with a thing covering my eyes? No typing? We are supposed to RP with voice? With a headset on all the time? Like that works. Most of us aren't members of the Royal Shakespeare Company. And we are used to actor's voices in our entertainment and stories. Ordinary people's voices don't come across great when you are used to that.

So, for our RP purposes, the headsets are pointless. Doesn't mean that this more game-focused approach is bad. I have always felt that was a part that was always a bit missing, in SL. Lots of guns to buy, but... can't really do a proper shooter. Loads of cars, but they drive like crap and hardly a sim that lets you rez em. The 'action' stuff was never great, and never got better, really, while 'gaming' in general moved forwards.

So, there is a lot of potential in this approach, but... I do wonder how much of what works about SL they might end up leaving behind. Clearly, people love creating their own avatars just-so, in SL. With the 25 max res textures that make up their 6 year old earrings. And while it might be cool to play a fish when entering a deep-sea sim, that isn't really what most SL players want. That 'comparison' didn't sound full of enthusiasm and awe.

I am also a bit worried if LL can deliver. I mean... this stuff is hard, high-level. I have no idea what their budget is, how many people they have working on it, how good those people are, etc. They made a pretty nice platform (SL), but they did that a long time ago, and many of the people from that time are no longer around. And something as 'new' as this... it sounds way harder than, say, the companies making triple A titles like Far Cry, Mass Effect, Skyrim etc. making another game of the type they have made before. And those games, building on things done before, still cost a lot of money to make. Here, LL is trying to do something quite novel. The sort of thing that will have you run into unforeseen problems, road-blocks and challenges. I haven't heard that much about Sansar, lately. The few things 'shown' aren't at all impressive. And that seems weird to me, because... well, given what they seem to want to create, it should be quite possible to show of some really amazing screenshots. Are they just not so good at presentation (not a terrific indicator in itself), or are they just... very far from where they want to be? I don't know.

Would be great if it turned out great, of course.

[Oor]

I mean... how will I drink coffee while playing with a thing covering my eyes?

Glaucon up in here with the real issues.

[Tamar Luminos]

Yeah, honestly- I log into SL to roleplay, mostly with shopping and building second and third. And the roleplay is text based, can't stand using voice to RP because even with a theater background, I communicate better via text and prefer to get my arpees in with emotes. I came from HTML or totally text based roleplay and the reason SL hits that perfect "sweet spot" for me is that it's the perfect mix of text -and- totally customizable visuals to allow for massive amounts of creativity. HTML was too dull after I found RP in SL, not enough visuals and visual creativity. VR, specifically Sansar, sounds like it's going to go too far in the other direction, with too much reliance on visual and VR and losing that textual/written component that works so well in SL roleplay for me. I'm sure you'll still be able to type in Sansar, they'll have some way to interface and use a keyboard I'm sure, but having the VR components on will likely make it too immersive for me and too clunky to use the interface I am used to and like.

So far, what I've seen of Sansar, I won't be able to build in world, one of my favorite things to do. I am not sure how roleplay will be- it depends on a lot of factors, really. I'm sure there will be some people who will try it out to see how it will work. I know you don't have to have VR for Sansar, so I'm sure there will still be a sizable contingent of non-VR people but it remains to be seen how many anyones will be springing for a Sansar "experience" and setting it up for roleplay, and then if it's in a genre I want to play in (which, to be fair is "most", other than straight up historical), and then if it's people who are decent to play with or not.

As for the shopping, that seems to be what LL is banking on. That people will want to shop in Sansar just as much as they do in SL and honestly if I can't do enjoy roleplay or building in Sansar, I won't be doing any shopping. I know they're trying to woo businesses and corporations to set up their own "experiences" to monitize things that way, but I am afraid they are really leaving their player base in SL in the dust. Oh well, as long as they keep SL going- I can't really complain. I still like SL and still enjoy playing in it. I will give Sansar a try but I doubt it will replace SL for me.

[Cassie]

I mean... how will I drink coffee while playing with a thing covering my eyes?

Glaucon up in here with the real issues.

A straw... duh

[Glaucon]

I mean... how will I drink coffee while playing with a thing covering my eyes?

Glaucon up in here with the real issues.

A straw... duh

[Cassie]

Made my day

[DarbyDollinger]

On the bright side, you'd be able to hear my sexy Aussie accent while I order you to kneel.

I suppose theoretically you could use voice recognition software to type your emotes while you're wearing the VR headset. I tried that a few years back with Dragon and it didn't really work well, but the technology might improve and become cheaper.