Hey Men!

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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:27 pm

Darius of Turia wrote:Sure, you dont need raiding. but the meter works to make sure when the RP calls for a combat situation, its a fair one. Even crackden used DCS for when they needed to settle direct combat situations and the players couldn't agree on a winner.


I disagree. Some people are just a lot more skilled at the meter combat aspect than others because they spend more time going on raids than they care about writing roleplay. There are a multitude of RP sims in SL where combat is only sorted through RP dice so everyone has an almost close to 50/50 chance to win once in a while, sometimes adjusted by what role or background they have chosen for their character. It's still possible to engage people in combat even if there is no combat meter.

People shouldn't have to spend time to have their character be good at combat, and BtB RP shouldn't be dominated by people who spend 90% of their time going to raids on GE sims, instead of actually creating and pushing storylines.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:32 pm

Darius of Turia wrote:I could rp a fat lazy warrior who does nothing and can barely hold a sword, but ill roll my d20, get an amazing roll and beat up your warrior who trains all day and is super skilled at weapons.


RP sims usually have backgrounds and stats that adjust the dice rolls.

Just like in real life, it sometimes does happen that the fat lazy guy wins a fight because the more trained fighter got outsmarted, betrayed, tripped or backstabbed, or just had a bad day etc, in SL Gor almost all of these options and roleplay approaches are made impossible.

In SL Gor sims there is also this stigma of shame that they try to hang over people's heads, because of a lack of IC / OOC seperation whenever someone loses a combat fight. It almost instantly becomes the accusation that someone didn't practice enough, that someone is lazy, bla bla whatever, and it also causes people to be a lot less willing to ever roleplay the consequences of losing.

In a lot of raids I've done in SL Gor there always was an element of OOC animosity towards whomever they tried to raid. "Oh hey, <this guy> is here, let's fuck up that idiot wanker" and obviously then too you're going to end up with situations where neither side will want to RP any consequences after the raid is over, because either Warrior A who dislikes Raider B is going to get pissed off when he loses the meter combat, or Raider B would get pissed when he loses and then all the cheat and troll accusations start flying out, and while there might've been some exciting moment of combat because some men were trying to 'protect' their manliness there isn't any roleplay or storyline that comes from it for anyone else.
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby FeorieFrimon » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:43 pm

Darius of Turia wrote:I could rp a fat lazy warrior who does nothing and can barely hold a sword, but ill roll my d20, get an amazing roll and beat up your warrior who trains all day and is super skilled at weapons.


Dice/RP combat wins when both players are working together to make good story. If you have two dudes 'trying to win', then it doesn't work so well.

You know me, Darius. I love me some dice. :wave:

Dice > GM combat all day long

Why? People there are more possibilities for RP this way, and lag doesn't effect how well a character fights ICly.

Years ago, I remember my friend getting in to a fight with some guy. That particular day, he was lagged pretty bad and he lost. ICly, he was a Kataii badass. An Ubar. He would never have gotten hosed in 3 seconds, but because his internet connection was giving him issues, it crapped on the story.

Fe's gotten in to a few fist fights with a nemesis of hers, and while the other guy normally wins, it's always awesome for RP when she gets a good punch in...which would -never- happen in GM meter combat.
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Cassie
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Cassie » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:21 pm

Anarch Allegiere wrote:
In a lot of raids I've done in SL Gor there always was an element of OOC animosity towards whomever they tried to raid. "Oh hey, <this guy> is here, let's fuck up that idiot wanker" and obviously then too you're going to end up with situations where neither side will want to RP any consequences after the raid is over, because either Warrior A who dislikes Raider B is going to get pissed off when he loses the meter combat, or Raider B would get pissed when he loses and then all the cheat and troll accusations start flying out, and while there might've been some exciting moment of combat because some men were trying to 'protect' their manliness there isn't any roleplay or storyline that comes from it for anyone else.


This a very good summary of how I see combat in Gor even as male character. I had brilliant situation when dialog with another guy would instigate to a fight only to be so brutally defeated because I really don't care for combat. It's fun once in a blue moon but its... repetitive...so fucking repetitive... and on and on and on and on... :confuzed: I can't believe there are still the same folks in GE at it.

You have to give credit to people who can ACTUALLY rp a fight, yeah not exactly the best I know but fuck if that is not a form of art to be good at it fart me a lullaby.

I personally like DICE Combat not only for the equality attribute because I can focus on how my character feels rather than what my FPS is.

Now in terms to other sims that use COMBAT system it should be noted these are often linked to a LEVEL UP system and a popular one (not so sure anymore) like CRACKDEN doesn't really use any combat meter and violence is paramour to it's design.

So now I don't want to go and say people who are good at GM should not be credited anything but there are places for that much better suited, they are called TOURNEYS and they give a more immediate and satisfying prize than in BTB/GE where Drama ensues with the described results from the above quote. If one player wins all the time the other eventually leaves and the first one will get bored and shut down as well.
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Sasi
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Sasi » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:09 am

I attended an OOC red caste meeting some weeks ago, in a sim where I played.... Some people strongly advocated in favor of metered combat and freaked out, threatening to leave, when a guy started to talk about dice RP combat as a possibility to enforce this form of combat... I found their reaction rather sad... (even if I can enjoy a raid sometimes...)

Also, if raiding, please, stop asking FW and slaves to bind, unbind, bandage or aid, if you want to keep it a minimum realistic... Why would warriors risk the safety of their free women and slave girls in a plausible context? Immersion breaking.

And about raids... Stop pretending they're realistic when a city known as small in the books, wins a raid, and then, its people claim they defeated a city such as Ar.... It just makes no sense... In Prize, there is a scene which describes a raid upon Ar, and it looks like nothing of what you commonly observe in SL Gor...
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:06 am

Sasi wrote:And about raids... Stop pretending they're realistic when a city known as small in the books, wins a raid, and then, its people claim they defeated a city such as Ar.... It just makes no sense... In Prize, there is a scene which describes a raid upon Ar, and it looks like nothing of what you commonly observe in SL Gor...


That is another issue. People don't try enough to simulate the events and risks (or rewards) from the books.

When people in GoT RP sims go to war or engage in combat there is always the risk (sometimes a small risk, sometimes a big risk) of their characters permanently dieing, or even mutilation / permanent wounds or prolonged captivity (not just a quick 1 hour rescue or release that takes the story nowhere).
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Leah » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:32 pm

Anarch Allegiere wrote:When people in GoT RP sims go to war or engage in combat there is always the risk (sometimes a small risk, sometimes a big risk) of their characters permanently dieing, or even mutilation / permanent wounds or prolonged captivity (not just a quick 1 hour rescue or release that takes the story nowhere).


Which is kind of sad, when you think about it. All but one of those endings (death) give opportunity for more story and more character development. Even prolonged captivity, as long as there are people to RP with you, would be fun. I've participated in events like that in other games, but no one seems keen on it in SL Gor, which has always confused me.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:11 am

Leah wrote:
Anarch Allegiere wrote:When people in GoT RP sims go to war or engage in combat there is always the risk (sometimes a small risk, sometimes a big risk) of their characters permanently dieing, or even mutilation / permanent wounds or prolonged captivity (not just a quick 1 hour rescue or release that takes the story nowhere).


Which is kind of sad, when you think about it. All but one of those endings (death) give opportunity for more story and more character development. Even prolonged captivity, as long as there are people to RP with you, would be fun. I've participated in events like that in other games, but no one seems keen on it in SL Gor, which has always confused me.


And even the death of a character can cause major consequences and twists for everyone else's storylines. A Free Woman losing the companion she depended upon, a position of authority opening up sparking competition for the spot between everyone else eligible.

That isn't to say that I want to promote the idea of a RP sim in which everyone dies all the time, but sometimes a dead just makes more sense or can create more storyline and roleplay rather than everyone constantly staying alive and unharmed, as they tend to do in SL Gor.

Neither do I want to come across as touting that the particular GoT RP sim I have in mind is all roses and moonshine either, it has it's own issues, but it's to me a good example of how you -can- have a meterless and highly busy / active RP sim in SL with a focus on storylines, realism and adhering closely to the books. It's just that it uses an elaborate framework and sim rules to set it all up which is completely lacking in SL Gor. Some goean sims open up with amazing beautiful builds, and have all that 'front-end' work done, but then the 'back-end' is completely lacking and misses any coordination to stimulate and encourage longterm and both slow storylines and fast spontaneous roleplay, and eventually these gorean sims with the pretty builds just slip into becoming the generic problematic SL Gor sims, filled with noobies and people with bad RP etiquette we all know.
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Qingwen
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Qingwen » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:26 am

I once played a tavern girl (in a BTB sim) tasked to supervise the other girls working there. One day I was downed by a visiting slavegirl wielding "slave weapons" who was offended that my character spoke to her harshly. She ranted at me a long time about how I was weak and should respect her from now on.

Apparently you need to be good at combat to be a real kajira too. I feel for ya, guys.
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Oor » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:55 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:In a lot of raids I've done in SL Gor there always was an element of OOC animosity towards whomever they tried to raid. "Oh hey, <this guy> is here, let's fuck up that idiot wanker" and obviously then too you're going to end up with situations where neither side will want to RP any consequences after the raid is over, because either Warrior A who dislikes Raider B is going to get pissed off when he loses the meter combat, or Raider B would get pissed when he loses and then all the cheat and troll accusations start flying out, and while there might've been some exciting moment of combat because some men were trying to 'protect' their manliness there isn't any roleplay or storyline that comes from it for anyone else.


This is an issue with any conflict RP in the Gorean genre - far more than in any other genre. Whether it's a squabble between two slave girls or all out war between two cities, there's always a palpable OOC element to it. It's pathetic, and it's pretty much at the core of why Gorean RP is often so fucking dull.

It's probably because more people are in Gorean role play for kinky fuckery than for stories with kinky fuckery in them (there is a difference), so the idea that you win by writing the best story, even if your character is the "loser" within that story, is lost. And really, this absolute inability (and let's face it, lack of desire - whenever it comes up here we get some moron or three of the "herpaderp, but you were in a private skybox OOC with someone and therefore BRAINFART" variety) to separate IC/OOC and focus on story, and understand how to weave stories with others and be inclusive, has been around for so long I'm really not sure anything can be done about it.

That's why we all end up in our little cliques and groups of people we know won't turn into fucking aggro in a hot minute.

She says, about to start RPing in Gor a bit again. Optimism.
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