:: Port of Hesius ::

Tantus
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby Tantus » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:52 am

I'm only appalled that people no longer tolerate the roleplay of others, in a 'sexually liberated environment'.

Too sensitive, too squeamish, too easily offended is how I would describe most of BTB's population today. Gor has been diluted enough to accommodate these people and now sims are banning characters who could have existed in Gor, but are too extreme for BTB's puritanical mindset.

I've always said, a slave is behaving how his/her owner trained them to. So if you have an issue with a particular slave, roleplay with their owner, or kill it. That's the proper way to express intolerance in a Gorean roleplaying sim.
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Oor
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby Oor » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:32 am

Tantus wrote:I'm only appalled that people no longer tolerate the roleplay of others, in a 'sexually liberated environment'.

Too sensitive, too squeamish, too easily offended is how I would describe most of BTB's population today. Gor has been diluted enough to accommodate these people and now sims are banning characters who could have existed in Gor, but are too extreme for BTB's puritanical mindset.

I've always said, a slave is behaving how his/her owner trained them to. So if you have an issue with a particular slave, roleplay with their owner, or kill it. That's the proper way to express intolerance in a Gorean roleplaying sim.


Sure, things should be dealt with IC wherever possible. But sometimes, a particular role (or roles) are played in such a way as to be unrealistic for the genre, and played with such frequency as to push the whole genre "feel" of a sim away from where admins would prefer it to be. In such situations, it makes sense to ban (or heavily limit) certain character types.

Of course there are arguments to be made for allowing more character types in Gorean role play venues than are currently allowed - and arguments that focus in on why, for example, a single openly gay character is not allowed but a sim can have a population made up of 70% slaves, or why 90% of a sim's free women are "working women", or why etc., etc., etc. You get my point. But none of those issues are related to OOC bigotry.
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DarbyDollinger
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby DarbyDollinger » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:14 am

Jesus you're a bore Tantus.
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TreatRothschild
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby TreatRothschild » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:35 am

Not part of the mythos or part of the mythos in a limited sense. This is not saying gay is not allowed, it is saying that it isn't openly paraded. This is what I understand.

I've had a few days to think about this. I have issues but this is not Earth we're playing here. I still have issues with the character being banned but it's Mel's playground, I'm a guest.

I would like to see a RP where the Master/Mistress of one of these silky boys was brought before the Magistrate. That could prove interesting.
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
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Oor
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby Oor » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:53 pm

TreatRothschild wrote:I still have issues with the character being banned but it's Mel's playground, I'm a guest.


Out of interest, do you also have issues with the fact that Hesius banned another player, because she stood at the landing point in a Faerie outfit while she was checking out the sim?

If not, how come?

In both cases, the avatars presented were avatars that the Hesius administration felt contravened the Gorean environment they are trying to build. In both cases, the avatars were banned, meaning that the players of those avatars would need to contact the Hesius administration if they wanted to play there as a more acceptable (to Hesius) character.
I call my vagina "New Yorker cartoon" because it's dry and a handful of people have laughed at it.

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TreatRothschild
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby TreatRothschild » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:58 pm

I don't disagree with your point. When I was a sim admin, it was sometimes easier to simply ban the offending person, if they didn't comply, perhaps that is what happened here. They were asked, they either had a fit or were AFK and were removed. I don't know.

It is a problem but without knowing what the sequence was that brought about the banning, it's just speculation.
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
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Oor
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby Oor » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:13 pm

TreatRothschild wrote:I don't disagree with your point. When I was a sim admin, it was sometimes easier to simply ban the offending person, if they didn't comply, perhaps that is what happened here. They were asked, they either had a fit or were AFK and were removed. I don't know.

It is a problem but without knowing what the sequence was that brought about the banning, it's just speculation.


Sure, it's speculation. And I get the knee-jerk "AGH" reaction in the case of the femmeboy slave, what with the way it was presented here and how often words like "homophobic" and "bigoted" have been thrown around, all be it inaccurately. But the point is that here, in this very thread, we have an example of another time that someone has been banned from Hesius (a sim with traffic close to HUB levels, where that style of administration might be preferred) because the avatar didn't fit the administration's view of what they want for their sim.

Given that fact - that we have an immediately available example to prove that "this is the way Hesius - usually very swiftly - deals with avatars they don't feel fit into their vision" - I really am finding it difficult to understand your continued classification of this particular instance as "a problem".

As a thought exercise - wouldn't it be more problematic, more infantilising, to treat this femmeboy avatar differently to every other type of avatar that's considered not to fit, because it was a femmeboy avatar? Would that different treatment not be the very definition of enacting a prejudice?
I call my vagina "New Yorker cartoon" because it's dry and a handful of people have laughed at it.

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TreatRothschild
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby TreatRothschild » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:26 pm

Myself, I would treat him as I treat every other slave character. I don't have a problem with the femmeboy type character.

Presented as it was here, it was, on its face, a homophobic reaction. Further consideration and discussion showed that it was a mythos issue.

Given that I have modified how I think of the problem, I'm puzzled by your continued aggressive questioning. Yes, I do have an issue with how quickly these people were banned. Yup, sure do. Yup, I consider it a problem. Nope, don't understand your problem with me.

Can you put it in non angry language?
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
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Oor
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby Oor » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:00 pm

TreatRothschild wrote:Myself, I would treat him as I treat every other slave character. I don't have a problem with the femmeboy type character.

Presented as it was here, it was, on its face, a homophobic reaction. Further consideration and discussion showed that it was a mythos issue.

Given that I have modified how I think of the problem, I'm puzzled by your continued aggressive questioning. Yes, I do have an issue with how quickly these people were banned. Yup, sure do. Yup, I consider it a problem. Nope, don't understand your problem with me.

Can you put it in non angry language?


I'm sorry that you're reading my questioning as "aggressive". It's sometimes difficult to read tone in text, and I do admittedly tend to write in a very unambiguous and direct style that can seem, to put it mildly, blunt. I can assure you that I have no issue with you whatsoever, that my questioning is not meant to be aggressive, and that my questions are merely born of my own interest, and a desire to understand where you're coming from (I'm a firm believer that you can only truly be sure of your own position if you understand (and ideally can empathise if not agree with) its opposite). By all means, feel free to disregard them if you don't want to answer them.

As it happens, you've answered the question I asked anyway - that your issue now is not with the banning of the femmeboy character specifically, but with the practice of banning avatars with minimal engagement as a means of preserving the admins' chosen vision for the sim. I happen to agree with you, to some extent - banning an avatar almost guarantees that the person behind the avatar will feel affronted and (as in both cases presented here) will be discouraged from coming back to role play in the sim as a more fitting character/avatar. I can understand it, given the level of traffic, but a time will inevitably come when traffic wanes (as it does in every sim) and those players who might have come to play will still be harbouring ill-feeling from when they were banned.

It does seem like a swings-and-roundabouts situation to me, though. When you have all of the traffic you can barely find the resources (in terms of administration) that you need, so snap-judgments and insta-bans are the way of things - but when traffic starts to fall those prior snap-judgments and bans might come back to bite you. I'm not entirely sure what the best way to go is, in that regard - and I'm glad it's not my decision to make.
I call my vagina "New Yorker cartoon" because it's dry and a handful of people have laughed at it.

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TreatRothschild
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Re: :: Port of Hesius ::

Postby TreatRothschild » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:21 pm

It's all good, I tend to be rather blunt myself, at times. I have had good interactions with you in the past, rather like you, in fact.

Admining is a pain in the ass, it's a necessary function and sometimes, it gets away from you. I would urge sim admins to try to figure out what's going on. The user might be honestly confused, might not speak english as a first language. Sometimes a nice conversation can go a long way to ameliorate bad feelings.

One time, I found a pair of vampires looking to set up a "nest" in a sim I was admining. Instead of stomping and being bad-ass, I talked with them about mythos and how vampires just simply don't exist in Gor. Nice conversation and they left with no hard feelings. At the time it was a top 10 sim in SL. ((Long, long time ago))
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.

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