Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

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Dren Bernard
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Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Dren Bernard » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:52 pm

The last 5 kills I have know about have all been highly controversial. Sims in uproar with many people upset. Motives have been suspect in all cases laced with good doses of OOC that can only be demonstrated by giving away IM's between people concerned or exposing alts of people involved.

I would like to know if you know of any, ANY, MA who has declared an a BC kill invalid lately, in particular when it concerns their own friends or are in shared groups? I am seriously considering to ask to have BC kills pre-approved by a SIM mod and not an MA as I have lost all faith in their workings as a group.

Too often the RP is beautifully executed as the players are experienced RPers mostly, but way too often related to a personal grievance of themselves or their friends that is OOC in nature. The MO is a friend is found with a "motive" and the kill becomes "justified".

This needs to stop cause soon more and more sims will stand up to this malpractice and we will lose BC RP from SL GOR. So what is your experience in this? and what rules do you apply in your sim that guarantees a fair BC role play?

DEBATE!
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Tamar Luminos » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:47 pm

What's an "MO"? And an "MA"? I've been trying to figure that out.
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Leah » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:16 pm

Tamar Luminos wrote:What's an "MO"? And an "MA"? I've been trying to figure that out.


Dren can correct me if I'm wrong, but in the context of the sentence in question, "MO" would appear to be "modus operandi," which basically means, "This is how it goes down."

"MA" is "Master Assassin." Generally speaking, that's the player/character who moderates all Assassin-related issues on a sim.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:25 am

Never understood the whole 'MA' thing anyway. As if somehow you need a 'special Assassin moderator' to be able to tell wether a roleplay is acceptable or according to rules or not.

Last time an assassin tried to kill me he very intentionally made sure I was in the middle of typing a response paragraph, by asking a question, before he started swording me down. Somehow a good many of them feels that that is just a-okay...... aaaaaaand it turned out that the assassin was the alt of a woman that thus roleplayed hiring herself, because I had killed an alt of hers. *mind blown* Not to mention that he/she randomly walked into my house because he confused it with a tavern, instead of doing any roleplay finding me, just beelined straight for my living room when he arrived on the docks, lol.

I seriously wouldn't have minded if the roleplay had been decent, and if the reason for hiring an assassin wasn't just made up (and even that is quite alright in a way), but that was just awfully bad storytelling and bad roleplay etiquette. It wasn't in my hands anyhow as the MA and admins of the sim at the time declared the kill invalid because of above reasons, but this was almost 1,5 years ago now, back in Port Lydius.

Not that anyone was upset, I would've been fine if the kill had been declared valid, but in the future I would've just sworded down every assassin that ever tried to RP with me. :p
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The Ost
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby The Ost » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:14 am

From what I've seen, and granted...I have been fairly out of the loop since Solomon stopped participating, it's just all gone to shit. Starting with the constant ooc fighting among them all and ending with all the things Dren has pointed out. They used to have a cool thing going but now. Bleh.

If I owned a sim I would honestly just probably not even recognize the caste at all. Murder each other in the streets like /normal/ people, and be done with it. :lol:
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Melchior Wardell
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Melchior Wardell » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:38 pm

Thankfully I am not that much in the loop these days as I was in the past. So the experiences that are recent are not those I am made aware off.

Several years back I claimed that there was a time for change. What worked in the time of Solomon, didn't work in the time of Crow, because there was this battle of ego's. When Solomon and others worked with the simowners to better the caste of assassins there was this thought in doing the best for both sides. In the beginning it worked like a chime, but in due time people complained about the 'forced training', the 'lists of killers or groups'.

SL changes, the players change, perspective changes.

I am sure that there are several players of assassins that mean well and try their hardest to avoid anything that comes close to OOC drama. I myself call myself one of them. If you pay attention I am not telling you that I am avoiding it. Since I am aware that even I can be dragged into something without really knowing all the ooc that might have transpired.

I believe that anything that stems from OOC should be avoided in rp. But again this is a beautiful claim, but try to imagine the fellow that roleplayed the entire - acceptance of the contract - till - escaping the sim where he performed his kill. What if he didn't know that the woman/man that hired him had OOC motives?

Can you see how it might frustrate the roleplayers involved, including the player of the assassin?

As to moderating the kill. I agree that there is no need for a special moderator, however who is the real judge? The simowner that might loose a player? The moderator that likes the assassin? The moderator that likes the one that is killed? Anyone that says they can be all objective should be considered closely. We are all human with our faults. We all have our blind spots. Eventhough we mean the best our actions can be quite stupid at times.

In any of these cases there is always the bad that spoils it for the one that tries their best.
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Tamar Luminos » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:48 pm

Am I obtuse for thinking it really depends on the player of the character being assassinated? Whether they consent to be killed or not?
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:50 pm

Tamar Luminos wrote:Am I obtuse for thinking it really depends on the player of the character being assassinated? Whether they consent to be killed or not?


In my experience, yes and no. Sometimes the people that are in active storylines with said character can get really upset that this character supposedly would die because of, questionable reasons and/or bad roleplay. Peer pressure plays a big role sometimes in wether or not people are willing to take a perma-death of their own characters.

Some sims rise and fall depending on who is roleplaying a certain leading role in the sim or not, it can be devastating for a sim to suddenly having to find a new person to do it instead if the previous one is really keeping the sim hopping and he decides that because of his death, he should go play something else now, or the drama that arises if someone dies and their new character instantly gets promoted to the old rank of Commander, while other 'eager' warriors have been trying to get that spot or rank since forever (or might've even orchestrated the death to try and get promoted).

Roleplay and people are complicated sometimes. :p
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Tamar Luminos » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:28 pm

Anarch Allegiere wrote:
Tamar Luminos wrote:Am I obtuse for thinking it really depends on the player of the character being assassinated? Whether they consent to be killed or not?


In my experience, yes and no. Sometimes the people that are in active storylines with said character can get really upset that this character supposedly would die because of, questionable reasons and/or bad roleplay. Peer pressure plays a big role sometimes in wether or not people are willing to take a perma-death of their own characters.

Some sims rise and fall depending on who is roleplaying a certain leading role in the sim or not, it can be devastating for a sim to suddenly having to find a new person to do it instead if the previous one is really keeping the sim hopping and he decides that because of his death, he should go play something else now, or the drama that arises if someone dies and their new character instantly gets promoted to the old rank of Commander, while other 'eager' warriors have been trying to get that spot or rank since forever (or might've even orchestrated the death to try and get promoted).

Roleplay and people are complicated sometimes. :p


Yegods, now I'm really glad I've never been in an "in clique" in a sim. It'd be incredibly annoying to have anyone try to put pressure on me to have to play my character a certain way just to satisfy someone else's roleplay scenario. It also seems incredibly inefficient, not to mention dull, to hold an entire sim's storyline hostage to a rigid, set outcome.

I've never been a proponent of the OOC Caste Groups promoting the people they've trained as being "the only REALLY real assassins/physicians/dancing slaves/insert special name here". To me, as a roleplayer, anyone should be able to come in, pick a role (free/slave), pick a caste, come up with an independent backstory, and then jump in a sim and be able to play that character without any sort of OOC approval/training or catching any OOC flak in their IM's about how they're not legit. There shouldn't be any need for a special mod just for assassins, if someone breaks the sim rules (which these days, if it's a RP sim, should include the basics of no metagaming, no godmodding, etc.), then any old mod should be able to give them a warning/void the RP if need be.

As for assassination RP, I can't see forcing someone to permadeth their character unless this possibility is explicitly stated up front in the sim rules, cuz then- well, they agreed to it when they started playing there, and if the RP goes off with a complaint, again, any old mod should be able to take a look at the logs and make a call, dead or void. If the sim doesn't state that permadeth is a possibility, then consent comes into play and it should be up to the player being attacked, really. A good player, being attacked, should run with it, and if the assassin puts out good posts, should honor it with at least being injured. Shouldn't be any need for a mod to get involved unless one of the people directly involved in the scene have a serious complaint re. a sim rule being broken.

But eh. That's just my thoughts on the subject. I don't take this roleplaying stuff very seriously, so I don't see why it has to be so complicated and drama-filled OOC. We're all just dorks in a video game roleplaying characters based on an old set of kinky sci fi novels, when it comes right down to it.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Black Caste declining in standards, debate!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:06 pm

Well, that is where things get somewhat absurd to me. It's not really 'taking a kill' if you are back the next day and explain: “'tis but a scratch”.

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