Feminisation of SL Gor

Discussions related to Free Men

Combat Frequency

Yes, there should be more combat
25
20%
Yes, there should be more combat
25
20%
The present lack of raiding is perfect
26
21%
The present lack of raiding is perfect
26
21%
No opinion
11
9%
No opinion
11
9%
 
Total votes: 124
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Eta » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:43 am

Chron Minotaur wrote:I may be the only one feeling this, though it appears 'Combat' and 'Raiding' have become dirty words in SL Gor. If you want to raid, you belong in GE with the aggressive rabble of teenagers with no better understanding of Gor than waving their bows around.

I guess . .which is a shame and I sometimes wonder if some of older days gor got left behind where it should not have, by far!

Chron Minotaur wrote:Every other profile I read now is focused on "RP". And you'd better not even glance in their direction without "Para RP", because "Para RP" is all the rage now.

I am focused on RP.. omg do i want RP! But as for para being all the rage? I do hope not. I dun wanna plod along like a snail in my rp ty very much. Doesn't work when engaging with all walks of life anyhow, doesn't impress, in fact does the opposite. I am middle range or what ever that might be tagged as lol.

Chron Minotaur wrote:So, "Real" Gor is where people respect one another and .......... "Para RP".

What ever floats ya boat I guess though. I can respect a person who does para RP as much as one whom doesn't. If they meet me middle range then the better.

Chron Minotaur wrote:I don't RP with someone who's profile expects me to "Para RP". It's a ridiculous limit and the common culprit is female. So I'm expected to type a load of crap about the atmosphere, her appearence, my situation, the wildlife beyond the walls, with a mix of seasons and astronomy thrown in to fill a paragraph just to say "Tal".

Many who enjoy para rp can just as easily adapt and meet in the middle surely? I have met such. Though granted, if stated in their profile that they only para rp period. . then lolz :loOsEr:

Chron Minotaur wrote:Otherwise this person is going to say, 'fuck this one-lining noob' and saunter on her way to find someone who can RP, who's probably a RL female with virtual cock....... Because, "female masters" are in fashion. If I pretended to be a RL female, I'd probably get hit on in 30 seconds!

Have to disagree there. Possible reason female Male Masters are such a hit is because they bring it perhaps? Women can multitask far better than men for sure, that is a feminine trait for women in gor too yes? :farmer:

Chron Minotaur wrote:RP is good, when your mind is into it, RP is fantastic. But Gor has two sides, there's the interaction between men and women and between men and men. The second is lacking because city warriors are now afraid to raid. Are the FW and slaves holding them back, instructing them to RP over raiding? People don't like a challenge anymore, unless it's how many words you can spit out in five minutes of Para RP?

A mix of both is ideal to me personally. Raiding all day long = dull, No raiding hardly ever = dull. If boys wanna play battle ground wars 24/7 then go play WoW, if boys wanna go play chat rp 24/7 only then .. erm yawns too. I have yet to see an intense rp battle in chat, other than 2 involved only. Though dun blame it on women just cos you guys can't do both. . and NO!..That is so NOT multitasking!

Chron Minotaur wrote:Raiding is restricted in Gor because men fear consequences of being raided back. Everyone sits in a stalemate of peace, and the women keep them held back for "Para RP"

Too black and white there, does not compute nor do I buy it for a second.

Chron Minotaur wrote:Wars and combat are a part of Gor as much as PARA RP or furring some ridiculous slave with PARA RP limits. Get out there, fight, take people with you and raid! Then see the effect it has on your roleplay.

I agree there. Tis Aaaa'll good and alll gor ya knows? ;)
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Aseptimus » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:02 am

HorizonNinetails wrote:No. I was looking for people who have something to add to the conversation.

Sadly the best you can do is quibble about something you don't understand, have never liked because you don't understand it, and will never like because you don't want to understand it.

You can comment as eloquently as you like...you're adding zilch. Nadda. But post...after post...after post of it.

So again...wtf BBQ?

Numbskull? srsly? Thats pants on head ridiculous.


I agree. Which is why I used it.
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby HorizonNinetails » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:05 am

I shall post a corresponding retort.

Flame.

There. Now I can go back to RP.
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Aseptimus » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:29 am

HorizonNinetails wrote:No. I was looking for people who have something to add to the conversation.

Sadly the best you can do is quibble about something you don't understand, have never liked because you don't understand it, and will never like because you don't want to understand it.

You can comment as eloquently as you like...you're adding zilch. Nadda. But post...after post...after post of it.

So again...wtf BBQ?

Numbskull? srsly? Thats pants on head ridiculous.


*shrugs* Well, I don't think you're listening or adding anything to conversation either, neener neener? Really, because I dissent with your opinion and have a different perspective, my opinion is neither valid nor adds anything to the discussion, huh?

I get the raiding thing, I do. It just isn't for me. That's fine, right? I'm allowed to not like raiding? Yes? Obviously I need clarification here because apparently playing how I want to play, and liking that the bad old days of endless pointless raids are gone, makes me some kind of idiot whose opinion on the issue isn't valid. I also disagree that there are significantly less men in Gor then previously, men have always been outnumbered. As others have also stated, just because there are less warriors, does not mean there are less men. If you're going to base an argument on something, you have to substantiate it first, a few comments of anecdotal evidence doesn't do that since that is simply your experience, not the experience of others.

Then of course, there is your selective reading where you quite handily skip over my comments where I said that I'm in favour of meaningful combat, having engaged in it in the past, and have worked on combat systems and scripts for melee and ranged weapons.

So you may see it as "adding nothing" - I see it as adding the bits and pieces you are missing and forgetting. So, while I am listening and trying to see things from your perspective how about you try and see things from mine, or if that's too distasteful for you, perhaps seeing them from the perspective of the people you want to raid but who aren't actually eager for that.
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Aseptimus » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:19 am

Let me summarise the last few pages:

You/Blue/Chron: There are less men in Gor
Me and others: I don't think that's true, men aren't playing warriors, but that doesn't mean there are less men

You/Blue/Chron: We went to some SIMs and there were hardly any men, therefore there are hardly any men in Gor
Me and others: We're off visiting other SIMs a lot, following RP threads, plus there were a bunch of men in one SIM just today

You/Blue/Chron: If we bring back raiding as a big thing, lots more men will come to Gor
Me and others: That might be true, but a lot of men will leave Gor too.

You/Blue/Chron: many Men leave Gor because there is no raiding
Me and others: There is raiding, just not every SIM, some of us prefer an environment that is relatively raid free

You/Blue: If you're not going to allow full raiding, you should not use meters since restricting meter use is bad, it should be all or nothing
Me: That doesn't make sense, surely some combat is better than no combat? Why throw those chances out because the SIM doesn't like pointless raiding?

Rinse, repeat, adnauseum.

You haven't substantiated any of these allegations, just protested them previously as grounds that all SIMs should open themselves up to raiding because you don't like GE and there aren't enough pro-raiding BtB SIMs. That doesn't make a good argument to me, you've yet to demonstrate why other people should change the way they play to suit you.
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Festus » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:33 am

Aseptimus wrote:*shrugs* Well, I don't think you're listening or adding anything to conversation either, neener neener? Really, because I dissent with your opinion and have a different perspective, my opinion is neither valid nor adds anything to the discussion, huh?


From what I see, that's not why he said that. You are stating how you think things SHOULD be, and why what OTHERS want is stupid and fails. You are not having a discussion, you are trying to explain your verdict, already decided how it should be.

Aseptimus wrote:I get the raiding thing, I do. It just isn't for me. That's fine, right? I'm allowed to not like raiding? Yes? Obviously I need clarification here because apparently playing how I want to play, and liking that the bad old days of endless pointless raids are gone, makes me some kind of idiot whose opinion on the issue isn't valid.


No, you are not a bad guy for enjoying how things have become. The point is that you are enjoying it at the expense of others who want the raids. You, and the people like you, have succeeded in turning most of SL Gor into a tea party.

Aseptimus wrote:I also disagree that there are significantly less men in Gor then previously, men have always been outnumbered. As others have also stated, just because there are less warriors, does not mean there are less men. If you're going to base an argument on something, you have to substantiate it first, a few comments of anecdotal evidence doesn't do that since that is simply your experience, not the experience of others.


I think there are plenty of others in this thread who have added their experience to back this claim up.

Aseptimus wrote:Then of course, there is your selective reading where you quite handily skip over my comments where I said that I'm in favour of meaningful combat, having engaged in it in the past, and have worked on combat systems and scripts for melee and ranged weapons.


So? This means nothing. Just because you did something before, you are now qualified to speak for everyone else, and make judgements on how others should play? And selective combat is simply a polite way of saying combat when and how YOU want it, and if it falls outside that, it's bad.

Aseptimus wrote:So you may see it as "adding nothing" - I see it as adding the bits and pieces you are missing and forgetting. So, while I am listening and trying to see things from your perspective how about you try and see things from mine, or if that's too distasteful for you, perhaps seeing them from the perspective of the people you want to raid but who aren't actually eager for that.


You seem to think that seeing things from your perspective means agreeing with you. We can see see your points, but we DISAGREE with them. You can't seem to understand how that can happen, and are just rephrasing the same old crap in each post trying to convince us that you are right and we are wrong. It ain't working. Come up with something new or stop posting. That's the point here.
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Conall » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:00 am

Jesus christ, why is gor that complicate ?

People will join the cities which fit for them.

Cities which dont use meter will attrackt people, cities which dont allow panthers also, cities which are less meter combat orientated as well. At the end its the roleplayer himself who decides what he wants to play and to get.

I dont want daily useless raids without any meaning, i do not even wish 3 raids a week if they woudl have a reason. I have other things to do as to stand at the wall constantly and watch eventually incoming enemies and i dont want to have always to take care while RPing if there will be maybe an attack. At one point i started not to do any longer emote anymore or to engage into any heavier text roleplay ... i would have been so or so disturbed within a few minutes.

But i do wish tension, and tension for me isnt only RPed out in long descriptive texts ... its only an add for me which helps to raise tension and i wont place myself at the gates for hours and type. Some do like it, i do not. That i dont like it i will show with moves and emotes and the one in front of me may then adjust his RP and back off or has to bear the consequences as we are at a metered sim. It is so simple.

And i agree with Horizon/Blue ... dont hide behind safety rules when your city is metered but roleplay, go with the flow and if you dont like it stay in your house or go ballroom dancing at earth but dont take all the tension out of gor. It is already boring enough because and now lets be honest ... you may not do much anymore and to stand at the gate and just counting the endless flow of slaves and FWs which want to be treated nicely is no job for any active red caste ... it just bores.

If you want to play safe gor in your city then become meterless and dont hide behind huge rules and dont put people into charge as admins or mods which only want their peace.

If you want to have some TENSION FOR EVERYONE then use a meter and let the people/roleplayers decide by themselfes if that fits for them. Who doesnt agree with a dangerous gor will move on and who doesnt want to roleplay anything will stay at earth and better do ballroom dancing.

Men leave because there is no tension anymore, nothing left to fight for and less places which would allow it because of shitty rules. Who joins the red caste is here for a challenge or at least open for it but because of that we are called boys.

*end of rant*
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Aseptimus » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:08 am

JohnP wrote:You are stating how you think things SHOULD be, and why what OTHERS want is stupid and fails.


Nope, not even close. I'm stating how things are at the moment from MY experience which contradicts yours. I'm not the one trying to change the status quo, I'm quite happy with the way things are. Yes there could be bit more combat, but that does inevitable lead to too much combat or indiscriminate and pointless combat. You are the ones that want change, so you are the ones that have the case to prove, you haven't done that.

JohnP wrote:No, you are not a bad guy for enjoying how things have become. The point is that you are enjoying it at the expense of others who want the raids. You, and the people like you, have succeeded in turning most of SL Gor into a tea party.


Really? A Tea party? Is that what you honestly think of the role play of everyone who doesn't want to get heavily enmeshed in scripted combat is? Interesting to know. Well, here's the rub, if I enjoy the way I role play and the environments I role play in, that's at the expense of others. If you bring pointless raiding and excessive scripted combat into those SIMs that is at MY expense. Doesn't matter which way you paint it, someone loses in either approach. I'm quite happy with it not being me.

JohnP wrote:So? This means nothing. Just because you did something before, you are now qualified to speak for everyone else, and make judgements on how others should play? And selective combat is simply a polite way of saying combat when and how YOU want it, and if it falls outside that, it's bad.


Who is talking for everyone? I'm talking for myself and the people I know who agree with me. Nothing more than that. If anything, it is YOUR side of the argument that is speaking for everyone and in utter absolutes. Stating things as fact without substantiation. I'm not making any judgements on how others should play, the only judgement I'm making is that there is no requirement for any SIM or other role players, myself included, to accommodate you at the expense of our own enjoyment. You can play however you like, and if you find like minded people who want to play the same thing, and even SIMs that want to host that play, then more power to you, I've said that at least three times now. I'm not going to change how I role play, nor am I going to support changes to the rules and governing of the SIMs I role play in without good reason - and you haven't given one. "But we want to" is not a good reason.

Yes, selective combat is a polite way of saying that. I'm quite happy with selective combat.

JohnP wrote:You seem to think that seeing things from your perspective means agreeing with you. We can see see your points, but we DISAGREE with them. You can't seem to understand how that can happen, and are just rephrasing the same old crap in each post trying to convince us that you are right and we are wrong. It ain't working. Come up with something new or stop posting. That's the point here.


I don't expect you to agree with me, but I do expect you to acknowledge in the interests of honest debate and discussion that the points I have raised have validity. You may not agree with them, but they are rational sensible points none the less. When you do acknowledge the validity of my position, and the rights of others in relation to our role play environments, then we can move on, but you're not even trying to meet half way. All the overtures for accord have come from this side.

This is not about being right or wrong, it is about recognising that both parties to the discussion have valid concerns and equal right to have them considered. If you want to change the status quo you need to convince those people that there is a good reason to do so - that is, a reason wherein the pros out weight the cons. You haven't done that.
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Sabina Takakura » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:08 am

Chron Minotaur wrote:And where does this all leave the men....? Yeah. What men?
Sim after sim is deserted, you don't see warriors or scribes or slavers.... you'll find some FW milling around and slaves, who's profiles state they're "Para-roleplayers".

Maybe I'm the only one who see's a paragraph of RP posted with an internal response of "Oh fuck".
Or it may be, the hundreds of guys who've dissapeared from SL Gor just wanted to experince something more than RP.


1. lolwut? When did we have hundreds of men? As much as I'd like to be a troll on this one, I'm being serious. In Gor, women have ALWAYS outnumbered men at least 3 to 1.

2. lolwut? Does anyone else remember these wonderful days that everyone reminisces about so longingly? Do you know what it consisted of? FW and slaves sitting on an empty sim while men went off to raid. So really, the only difference is that men apparently don't log in at all, according to the OP.

3. "Experience (note, in the OP it's spelled incorrectly.) something more than RP"
lolwut? What in the name of bleeding jesus are you planning on experiencing? A transcendental epiphany brought on by point and click sexy parts? ALL of it is RP. The whole point of raiding is to extend the storyline. When you raid, you are roleplaying.
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Re: Feminisation of SL Gor

Postby Aseptimus » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:23 am

Conall DeCuir wrote:People will join the cities which fit for them.


Exactly, so why try and change them against their wishes?

Conall DeCuir wrote:Cities which dont use meter will attrackt people, cities which dont allow panthers also, cities which are less meter combat orientated as well. At the end its the roleplayer himself who decides what he wants to play and to get.


Fully and utterly agree.

Conall DeCuir wrote:I dont want daily useless raids without any meaning, i do not even wish 3 raids a week if they woudl have a reason. I have other things to do as to stand at the wall constantly and watch eventually incoming enemies and i dont want to have always to take care while RPing if there will be maybe an attack. At one point i started not to do any longer emote anymore or to engage into any heavier text roleplay ... i would have been so or so disturbed within a few minutes.


Absolutely agree. Coincides with my experience too.

Conall DeCuir wrote:But i do wish tension, and tension for me isnt only RPed out in long descriptive texts ... its only an add for me which helps to raise tension and i wont place myself at the gates for hours and type. Some do like it, i do not. That i dont like it i will show with moves and emotes and the one in front of me may then adjust his RP and back off or has to bear the consequences as we are at a metered sim. It is so simple.


Again, I agree, and there have been moments of truly exquisite, palpable tension when meters have come into play - not raids, but arrests, searching for a killer etc. Then there are/were tournaments, which were fantastic: 1v1, 2v2, FFA - great fun, exciting, and the source of excellent RP in the taverns after.

My point here is that tension from meters doesn't have to be from raids - certainly it can be, but raids to me should be the least source not the greatest. Maybe if a SIM was a embodying a small hamlet or village or trading post that would naturally be subject to raids by bandits and such, then yes, but otherwise, no. Armies may assault a city, on occasion, but not on any regularity. A city might be attacked for its strategic importance - economically, politically, geographically - but such attacks would be part of a broader history and campaign. Perhaps a small strike force of lightly armed warriors might attempt to breach the defences long enough to rescue an important prisoner or take an important captive - again, part of a grander campaign.

Conall DeCuir wrote:And i agree with Horizon/Blue ... dont hide behind safety rules when your city is metered but roleplay, go with the flow and if you dont like it stay in your house or go ballroom dancing at earth but dont take all the tension out of gor. It is already boring enough because and now lets be honest ... you may not do much anymore and to stand at the gate and just counting the endless flow of slaves and FWs which want to be treated nicely is no job for any active red caste ... it just bores.


Now you're telling others how to play and what constitutes excitement. I find a lot to do, but that's because my characters and role play are oriented that way. The majority of SIMs with those types of rules adopted them to put an end to the frustration of relentless pointless raiding. Not to hide behind them, but simply to get rid of something that was a detriment to their enjoyment of the game. Accusing them of hiding behind those rules is not conducive to a mutual opening of role play and combat opportunities.

Conall DeCuir wrote:If you want to play safe gor in your city then become meterless and dont hide behind huge rules and dont put people into charge as admins or mods which only want their peace.

If you want to have some TENSION FOR EVERYONE then use a meter and let the people/roleplayers decide by themselfes if that fits for them. Who doesnt agree with a dangerous gor will move on and who doesnt want to roleplay anything will stay at earth and better do ballroom dancing.

Men leave because there is no tension anymore, nothing left to fight for and less places which would allow it because of shitty rules. Who joins the red caste is here for a challenge or at least open for it but because of that we are called boys.

*end of rant*


And you were doing so well until the end.
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