JackoS wrote:Instead of taking Tantus points, and trying to see what can be done to try to bring back all the men that feel that there is no place for them in SL Gor, and hence are leaving or thinking of leaving because they can’t find that world where men are men, the dominant species, while women are… well just women. Instead they find a place where:
women ask for equality,
Of course we ask for equality - out of character - Why would we accept to be treated the Gorean way, OOCly? At least for those who like me, are just role players. We come to depict a fictive character, we are not our characters, we are not Gorean. The Gorean philosophy should not apply OOC. We are all equal OOC, whatever our RL gender and role we play.
JackoS wrote:where if they want to spar in the arena, women and slaves complain that the noise and shouting by the meter disrupt other people’s roleplay (yes, that is what we were told like 7 years ago in Cardonicus, and why the sparring moved to a skybox).
I heard many men complain too. Not just women, but people who are playing around and get disrupted by the shouting. Personally, I don't mind much.
JackoS wrote:Where if you are a warrior, and you devote hours to training and sparring, you are called a pew pewer and since it doesn’t involve para-roleplay of 40 lines paragraphs you are a specimen of an inferior, barbaric species (yes been called that too).
If you are a warrior and show up only when a raid happens, chances you get called a pew pewer. If you are a warrior who spend hours training and is able to RP with creativity, nobody will mind when you devote hours to improve your combat skills. Certainly not the women.
JackoS wrote:That if you fuck in open chat a kajira in a tavern, you are told to take it private.
If you tell women and others that warriors don’t discuss their affairs (including codes) in front of non-warriors (as it is in done the books) you are told you are en elitist and against open roleplay for all.
Prudishness is all over SL Gor, not just expressed by women, but by men as well who tend to be loyal to their FC that often, they partnered, or to their slaves.
Discussing codes can be done in presence of slave girls (yes, in Plunders, serious matters are discussed in front of slave girls and it stated that as they are animals, it doesn't matter). But if you stay in the warrior hall, I see no reason for people to complain.
JackoS wrote:If you decide to punish a mouthy, undisciplined kajira by placing her in a cage or killing her (which by the way I have done for no reason, except that she was my property and I found pleasure in killing her) you are told you are killing the slave’s roleplay and that she has every right to roleplay.
There are many ways in the books to punish an undisciplined kajira, I have yet to see one scene where one is killed for such reason. But in SL Gor, people rely on the "you don't need a reason to kill a slave". It's simplistic (which I can understand when the slave player plays such crap non sense, but personally, I just walk away and don't bother).
Placing the player in a cage and leaving her there while you walk away is bad form RP. Would you appreciate being captured, thrown in a cage, then, left alone with no RP? Why would you inflict that to a slave player? Because she plays a slave? Role play etiquette applies to everyone. Cage the slave, yes, but be sure that her player won't be left without RP.
A role play is a collaborative game, it's a principle that too many people tend to forget.
JackoS wrote:Being insulted by FW in countless ways, but when one finally manages to find a way to collar them, they get out of it by simply logging on an alt and keeping up with their roleplay.
In the books, FW tend to demean men, they consider themselves their equal, if not their superior (especially when they are of high station. But I don't see one insulting a man without some provocation or because she sensed some hint of disrespect. A man who would plot until he got the woman in his collar offered usually, so, a great RP, a nice plot storyline. The guy who slaps the woman who treated him with contempt, across the face and pulls out a collar, is just boring (and it doesn't happen in the books, especially when a home stone is shared). And SL Gor is full of men who just disrespect FW, who keep their slaves in nadu in their presence, who play a low caste (not even of the high merchants) and expect all FW, even those of high station will bend at him because he is a man and well, Gor is a man's world... It's just not the way of the books where in this man's world, FW are treated with the greatest deference.
I see nothing wrong with a player whose character got enslaved, who will use an alt to still play a FW. As long as she honors the RP with her other avatar, the newly enslaved woman.
I have more issues with those players, of both genders, who state: No collar, no force collar, etc.
JackoS wrote:I could go on and on, but clearly the examples above, which I have witnessed for the past several years, show a community (the Gorean community in SL) where a part of it, and I dare to say a big part of it, feels that it is being left behind, and pushed outside of the community; and like those in globalization that feel ignored completely when they complain or ask for changes to be included (call them Brexiteers, Right Wing Nationalists in Europe, Trump supporters in the USA, Third World Anti-Globalization Activists) I see we are resorting to more and more radical views (stop roleplaying, complaining more and more, leaving trying to find other things). And unless all of SL Gor decides to work together in trying to bring back those who feel are being left out, what is going to happen is more of the same. Men are going to continue to leave (which is the SL way of voting leaving) and women will be left asking more and more where are all the men. And SL Gor will be more and more fractured in the future.
Men (and women as well), should just play their role in the respect of the culture as described in the books, in separating well IC and OOC. I find lame people who play their character in keeping it as a reflection of their real personality. It's, actually, the real problem. People can't separate themselves from their character, they care for the way their character will look, because they fear that their actions become a reflection of the typist. And so, almost no woman dare to play jealousy, envy, pettiness (and I have yet to find a FW in the book, or description of FW, of nice women with a noble, pure and generous heart), slave players of both genders mostly play an adaptation of the BDSM sub, and men mostly want to play a man of honor, honest, loyal and, as in our world, can't stand if a woman don't respect them, love their FC with passion and only keep the slave for the chores and serves.
When Gor is a society based on inequalities, hierarchy, power and ranks, people play it as if every free person were the equal of each other. Eh, how many times I heard: "The ubar must earn my respect". No man, it doesn't work this way, actually, it's: "I (well, your char) must earn the ubar's respect" In Gor, It's not for the king to bend to the peasant.
Can't even count the number of situations where Earth principles are applied to the Gorean role play, such as the famous Hippocratic Oath, the equality in front of the laws (everyone is deemed innocent until....) etc etc.
These problems kill any creative role play and break the immersion of people who made efforts to study their role (and when like me you have read the 33 books, soon 34, believe me, you get a hard time). Immersion is not broken because some women talk in a warrior group chat, save for the people who don't separate well IC and OOC.
I mostly agree with Cassie, but I don't think things have changed for worse. As I said, we got rid of customs which were truly a pain in 2007, when if you played a slave but stopped acting like one in OOC, you were corrected, shamed and even, you could be ejected from a sim (yes, it happened to me once, just because I asked the local tavern master player to stop bossing me in my IMs). Ransom and slave sale for real money, female fighters all over SL Gor (there was no BTB / GE separation), people who had no real clue about Gorean clothing (was not rare to see a FW with a sheer veil, myself, I wore one... or with earrings, not to mention the so common biker male outfit) and the RP was not less dovey lovey than it is actually (the free companions calling each other "love" tend to become a rarity now, but it was quite common some years ago).
Things improved and more strict players joined, people who want to play, not being OOC Goreans. It may confuse some so called "old Goreans"...
But I do think that immersion breaking is done by people who don't play their role properly because they cannot detach themselves from the Earth values and cannot separate their character from the typist. Not because a female mod interfere in an OOC warrior group.