Hey Men!

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Darius of Turia
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Darius of Turia » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:15 pm

Qingwen wrote:
Cassie wrote:You know what is scary? Playing a slave character with a guy and letting him play a dominant role and then have an im pushing to OOC this shit. Makes you just want to tip toe around a person before you RP freely doesn't it?


Thing is, these OOC crossover people are not always obnoxious jerks one can spot a mile away - they could be really nice and great roleplayers in all other respects. Then suddenly there is that awkward moment... why o why...

SL has always had this lingering aroma of match.com about it, I suppose I just hoped I'd meet more like-minded people in roleplay sims where we are obviously.. roleplaying.

I wandered off topic. Back to your regularly scheduled programme...


Now hold up one moment, this is a subject that i think is part of a thread titles 'Hey Men!" lol.

The way i look at it is this. Single people sometimes want to meet other single people and do single people things. Also a lot of people who are on SL are having a hard time coping with life for one reason or another and want to make a connection. I don't think this is inherently bad and i do not think its ok to shame them just because someone might be a little lonely in real.

Problem comes in with how they approach such a thing. if someone has in their profile 'I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU OOCLY' and they do it anyway, well then bam they are at fault. But if you don't have any of those disclaimers in your profile and someone tries to chat you up ooc, then you can politely decline to have that discussion. if it ends there and everyone maintains mutual respect for eachother, boom win win. No reason to get angry at them for it. Now if a guy is coming off as creepy or desperate, then you can do what you need to do in order to get out of that situation. I know there are a'lot of truly damaged people in SL who will turn into psycho stalkers and its a serious problem for women. But don't punish the guy who's being respectful to you and nice just because he wanted to make friends or maybe hoping to meet someone, its not wrong to have that view, its wrong when that view becomes hostile and pushy or creepy.
"Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
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Cassie
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Cassie » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:20 pm

Darius of Turia wrote:Thing is, these OOC crossover people are not always obnoxious jerks one can spot a mile away - they could be really nice and great roleplayers in all other respects. Then suddenly there is that awkward moment... why o why...

Problem comes in with how they approach such a thing. if someone has in their profile 'I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU OOCLY' and they do it anyway, well then bam they are at fault. But if you don't have any of those disclaimers in your profile and someone tries to chat you up ooc, then you can politely decline to have that discussion. if it ends there and everyone maintains mutual respect for eachother, boom win win. No reason to get angry at them for it. Now if a guy is coming off as creepy or desperate, then you can do what you need to do in order to get out of that situation. I know there are a'lot of truly damaged people in SL who will turn into psycho stalkers and its a serious problem for women. But don't punish the guy who's being respectful to you and nice just because he wanted to make friends or maybe hoping to meet someone, its not wrong to have that view, its wrong when that view becomes hostile and pushy or creepy.


No by all means I don't think 2 categories even come close to shortening the spectrum. My problem with Uber creepy is really simple "Get lost!". Its the not so creepy guy who just kinda slips it in there, nodding to your request to not bother and just kind of pushes in. Then when you finally think you might have enough evidence to highlight that his ongoing communication appears as if he trying to convince you into something else all of a sudden steps back offended "Why how dare you?" or "I am really surprised you would think so lowly of me!" and then you're like... ok maybe its me being paranoid. :confuzed: So see this is the type of person that causes me headaches.
Now I am sorry I don't really mean to intend men are the only ones to coerce women but I haven't done much male rp so I just had clingy women but they were all pretty shy and nice at the end of the day.
Unless a friend nudges me on the good reputation of a guy's OOC capability handling yeah I might have abandoned that type of RP.

I actually enjoy talking to people OOC, it's actually a great feeling talking to people from all over the world and becoming friends. This might actually be a problem I only had.
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Qingwen
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Qingwen » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:17 am

@Darius

I'm not angry nor offended nor trying to shame anyone looking for love, just frustrated that the default seems to be an assumption about some sort of OOC romance based on a steamy scene or two in RP. I do have "RP only" in my profile, though it doesn't mean I won't chat in IM about whether mesh heads are better than system or the how the new pizza I developed last night tasted. I'm human after all, not a bot.

My default is that people on a roleplay sim are actors and actresses there to have fun playing a role and immersing themselves in a setting. And my advice would be, if one is looking for RL love, an RP sim is a singularly bad place to do it.

The creepers are easy to deal with. Mute, gone. And I've encountered way more female creepers than men. Those aren't the kind I'm talking about though.

Cassie wrote: Its the not so creepy guy who just kinda slips it in there, nodding to your request to not bother and just kind of pushes in. Then when you finally think you might have enough evidence to highlight that his ongoing communication appears as if he trying to convince you into something else all of a sudden steps back offended "Why how dare you?" or "I am really surprised you would think so lowly of me!" and then you're like... ok maybe its me being paranoid. :confuzed: So see this is the type of person that causes me headaches.


That is exactly the awkward moment I meant. I don't think it's paranoia, as there are guys who never do this and are brilliant fun to RP with.

But, maybe I'm deluding myself that Gor-themed RP can be done without OOC romantic confusion.
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Sasi
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Sasi » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:24 am

I wouldn't have an issue with a man who, because I play his slave character, would want to extend the bond to an OOC level.

I would have an issue if this guy assumed that it's the thing to do -because- I play a slave, so, I should still act like his as well when we are OOC.

I would have an issue if, because if I didn't accept to be his OOC slave, he would stop rping our story.

I have a serious issue too, with people who assume that slave players must still be treated like slaves in OOC (often, to justify that idiocy, they speak of... immersion).

And I have an issue with people who are reluctant to enter into an -in character- relationship with another player, because this player is partnered... (hence why my SL Partner will never be on my profile)
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Mehrunes Unsworth
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Mehrunes Unsworth » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:10 pm

I've grown bored with the video game aspect of it all. I feel obligated to contribute to the war effort every time I join a sim. I'm pretty good at it so I inevitably work my way up to officer, im stuck training guys for combat, booking raid times, scheduling rescue sessions, negotiating alliances. It turns in to this meta thing more about protecting the traffic of the sim instead of enjoying it.

I just hate how your worth as a man is defined by the stupid fucking video game part of it all. I hate raiding, raiding is stupid, boring, repetitive, childish. I've done my best to make it better, none of my ideas have caught on. I'm sick of arrows and alliances and some motherfucker IM'ing me that their woman got stolen and being guilted into mobilizing the army and lagging out some sim I dont care about to recover some wench I never met, on the implied promise that they'd do the same for me.

I just dont think might should be determined by video game, there has to be a better way. These days I mostly follow you gorum posters to whatever sim seems to be getting the buzz of the moment, it is a lot more fun that way.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:26 pm

Mehrunes Unsworth wrote:I've grown bored with the video game aspect of it all. I feel obligated to contribute to the war effort every time I join a sim. I'm pretty good at it so I inevitably work my way up to officer, im stuck training guys for combat, booking raid times, scheduling rescue sessions, negotiating alliances. It turns in to this meta thing more about protecting the traffic of the sim instead of enjoying it.

I just hate how your worth as a man is defined by the stupid fucking video game part of it all. I hate raiding, raiding is stupid, boring, repetitive, childish. I've done my best to make it better, none of my ideas have caught on. I'm sick of arrows and alliances and some motherfucker IM'ing me that their woman got stolen and being guilted into mobilizing the army and lagging out some sim I dont care about to recover some wench I never met, on the implied promise that they'd do the same for me.

I just dont think might should be determined by video game, there has to be a better way. These days I mostly follow you gorum posters to whatever sim seems to be getting the buzz of the moment, it is a lot more fun that way.


Pretty much how I feel lately about SL Gor and why before my break from SL I went to spend time in meterless GoT instead. I'm more interested in weaving storylines, but even that in a way is a game of wits though, and becomes about outsmarting people or preparing the right twist for the right time.

That said, I like the storywriting aspect more than anything, and the combat / raiding part just feels to me like it detoriates the storytelling. SL Gor got used to certain really nasty habits which just make it all seem a bit... abusive and exploitative.
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Leah » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:33 pm

Having never played a male character, or a Warrior, I have a question.

Is it really true that the only way to be a "real man" (if playing a Warrior, anyway) in an SL Gor sim is to meter raid? Because I feel like that would cut out an awful lot of really good, believable characters whose players may simply not have a computer strong enough to handle the graphics load, or who simply don't enjoy that aspect of the game.

I haven't played SL Gor in quite a while, but in the other platforms I've been RPing in, I've seen a lot of really interesting, believable male characters (no idea of the players, of course) portrayed who...never really fought anyone in a direct conflict situation. I mean, part of that is that the main game I was RPing in didn't have a dueling system (they just implemented one, as a matter of fact), but part of it has also been that the culture doesn't seem to be extremely focused on what makes a male character a "man" as much as I've seen in Gor.

I don't know if this is a genre thing, or just a "habit" that people in SL Gor fall into, but it seems like this may be driving away a portion of the playerbase. Because, let's face it...not every guy (real or otherwise) enjoys FPS games. And that's basically what meter raiding is, from what I've seen.
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Cassie
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Cassie » Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:31 pm

Leah wrote:Having never played a male character, or a Warrior, I have a question.

Is it really true that the only way to be a "real man" (if playing a Warrior, anyway) in an SL Gor sim is to meter raid? Because I feel like that would cut out an awful lot of really good, believable characters whose players may simply not have a computer strong enough to handle the graphics load, or who simply don't enjoy that aspect of the game.

I don't know if this is a genre thing, or just a "habit" that people in SL Gor fall into, but it seems like this may be driving away a portion of the playerbase. Because, let's face it...not every guy (real or otherwise) enjoys FPS games. And that's basically what meter raiding is, from what I've seen.


I agree with you that this issue seems to pertain mainly GOR and in other genres the male population seems to be present for writing purposes mainly. GOT is probably the best example as I recently played there.
The male population in Gor has always been mostly about raids and the possible skype sex partner (as far as I have been able to count over the years) not to say there aren't exceptions but the latter is extremely limited in numbers and ends up burned out like our male buddies in the forums here.
Combat seems to be the only way to keep male players sufficiently interested to hang around a BTB sim these days.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:52 am

It's the sim rules of most Gor sims that place meter combat above all else, which causes the absurd situation in which sims want to come across as 'cool' and 'open to combat', but then once they get tired of having their ass kicked on the meter too often (by the same people) they start making up excuses as to why that person should be (RP) banned, instead of just admitting that their sim rules have put the door wide open for strong meter combatants to come dominate their RP.

So you /can/ roleplay a non-combatant male character in a Gorean sim, but it's not really a fun position to be in either, because it feels like you can't defend yourself against anything and that you are at the mercy of others.

The biggest issue with the meter is just that it creates a huge gap between players. On one end of the spectrum you'll have the men that will always win all their storylines and on the other end you'll have the people who will always lose. Simultaneously, I've found that on the end of the spectrum of the men that always win, through meter combat, you'll also find some of the worst roleplayers. Not 'worst' in the sense of one-lining or bad spelling or lack of creativity, but bad in the sense that they'll never accept losing roleplay in any shape or form, never accept being outsmarted, prone to metagaming, have issues seperating IC and OOC (because they're just so awesome IC that OOC they can be dickheads too) and don't often seem to know how to carry a longterm storyline but want every annoyance instantly fixed by using the combat meter.

I'm pretty much anti-combat meter at the moment, despite not being a bad combatant or having enough and the right GE buddies to be able to conjure up an undefeatable BtB army whenever I'd feel like it. The FPS part of it does not contribute to storybuilding and tends to give the center of the stage to people who aren't interested in storybuilding to begin with.
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Darius of Turia
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Re: Hey Men!

Postby Darius of Turia » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:44 pm

Don't forget, there are a multitude of sims that primary their meters over roleplay. CCS sims, DCS sims, most dice combat sims. The reason is because if you attempt to do things via roleplay there is such a high chance of god-modding that its not worth it. Sure I can rp my warrior with out issue and never go on a raid. but what happens when someone talks mad shit to him and I challenge him to a duel? DO we just rp how we flap our hands at each other until one of us gets bored of the rp and concedes?

The meter is needed to make it so its fair, because dont forget if you use a basic d20 dice then whats the point of all the time you put into training? I could rp a fat lazy warrior who does nothing and can barely hold a sword, but ill roll my d20, get an amazing roll and beat up your warrior who trains all day and is super skilled at weapons.

Sure, you dont need raiding. but the meter works to make sure when the RP calls for a combat situation, its a fair one. Even crackden used DCS for when they needed to settle direct combat situations and the players couldn't agree on a winner.
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