Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

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Sasi
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Sasi » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:33 pm

Tantus wrote:
The complaints you guys bring against Gor, shotgun-roleplayers, mamba-hybrids, lifestyling and so on, happens on the lowest tier of Gor RP sims. Those aren't places anyone sensible roleplays, they aren't representative of Gorean Roleplayers.

When you need to compare ROIAF to the worst examples of Gor, it says nothing positive for GoT roleplayers.
You don't see people here complaining about Earth RP, because they visited a Days of O sim and encountered a mix of IC/OOC. And you don't hear comments on the flexi-GoT sims (they still exist). And yet these conversations on SL Gor always return to the least representative residents of Gorean RP.
If you routinely meet these characters in Gor, it's an issue with the choices you're making.[/quote]

These snowflakes are representative of all Gorean sims, those with a decent traffic as well. You see them everywhere. Look at the current BTB list and find a sim where such people would never be allowed. When a Gorean sim has an application, there is no selection done. No required standard.
In Illyros, for example, we refused applications from people whose character had claimed several home stones or castes. Because from a Gorean cultural perspective, it's unrealistic (no wonder why so few former Gorean RPers joined us, despite a promising setting). And I won't even begin to speak about all these low caste FW players who think the veil is optional...
And I end up playing with my usual RP partners behind closed doors.

And "Earth RP"? Lol! Seriously, a term that old Gor crappers use when they chat about RP environments which are not Gor. ROIF is not Earth..... I was not in an Earth RP when I played in Mystara, neither.

Also, Tantus, at the end, what do you know exactly about the state of SL Gor...? Because :
Tantus wrote:Since 2010 I think I've roleplayed in Gor about 3 times, by joining and supporting a sim, for around 3 months at a time. That's how often a sim comes along which I felt comfortable about roleplaying in, and happened to have the time to commit.


Three sims? Well, we have Tarnwald... But what were the two others? I'm curious.

Tantus wrote:Here's a tip, look at the sim owners and general population, they'll reveal the sim's real direction.


When the sim owners are truly a lifestyler, there is always at least a few hints in the rules which reflect their orientation. I remembered a chat with one of the owners or admins, a woman, Raven, I guess. Her char was a slave and she had been very helpful about a question I had. She never called me mistress (usually, in OOC, it rings a bell to me, when it happens).

Tantus wrote:I made clear, I don't "support" the kenneling scene, but I understand why high traffic sims resort to it.
And it's not prejudice, rather, an observation.
Whilst I have emphasised the importance of sparring, I likely spent 5% of my RP time on sparring during a given week. Which is still 5% longer than the average Red Caste player.
Whichever incident you may be referring to, you do realise the raid ban is an OOC resolution and not roleplaying? For the affected sims to coordinate OOC'ly too doesn't sound unusual.
Wasn't it a city called Cyprianus? Neighbouring Clearchus where you routinely had Ghost Outlaws running around.


Understanding is a form of support. Unlike you, I don't understand this kennel crap. As I said, in sims I administrated, this crap has never been accepted (and some of these sims had a high traffic, the last one, Kaelus, hit 40K). Also, in a previous post, I exposed a simple solution, one which takes in consideration the fact there is an adult person behind the slave player.

I don't believe in your sense of observation. Especially after you claimed you played about 3 times in joining a sim, since 2010.

I don't refer to an incident. I refer to a trade alliance between several sims, done in character but organized with a secret agenda (the author, erm, was not too discret on his real motivations....) in order to isolate a sim which had just banned one....
And if you wondered, "trade alliance" with other sims is definitely not exactly what I call a political RP.... But to each his own.

Cyprianus... 2011! Actually, I was one of the 3 co-owners and to tell the truth, my voice counted for peanuts. Every time I tried to set a RP standard, it failed. Just requiring a basic level of Gor knowledge was dismissed by the two other co-owners. I remember when I tried to set a standard for the duels, requiring at least one emote + time given to the opponent for he reads and reacts (a rule that is now, commonly enforced). Two assassins had been been beaten by a scribe which had caught them while they were rping with other people, entirely by suprise, with a sword. That was silly, unrealistic. But it caused a fight amongst the co-owners, my proposition was rejected... I hated these GE fighters. They brought troubles in raids, they showed up only when a raid was expected. At the end, I gave up (and left).

Tantus wrote:Progress is being made when you're open to the idea of imperfection, it is the road to recovery.
A scene going right, out of many which did not, is also progress.

I remember, Tantus, that you spoke glowingly about Capua. Are you aware that many of these Capua people, can be met in ROIAF......? Those players whose RP you enjoyed in Capua... Now, they're toxic in ROIAF...?

Tantus wrote:It returns to taking responsibility for where you roleplay, in the brief times I've returned to RP in Gor, I don't mix with the worst roleplayers I can find. Rather, the opposite. So excuse me if I don't have the same issues as you.


Same for me. As I said, I don't RP with snowflakes, I stopped dealing their non sense in character. But usually, the best you can do is not to start a storyline with them. When your char is outdoors, these people run into you for a random scene. Not to mention you can still observe others, look at their profiles, read their backstories.... A profile tends to give a good insight of what to expect from a fellow RPer...
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Tantus » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:49 pm

Sasi wrote:These snowflakes are representative of all Gorean sims, those with a decent traffic as well. You see them everywhere. Look at the current BTB list and find a sim where such people would never be allowed. When a Gorean sim has an application, there is no selection done. No required standard.
In Illyros, for example, we refused applications from people whose character had claimed several home stones or castes. Because from a Gorean cultural perspective, it's unrealistic (no wonder why so few former Gorean RPers joined us, despite a promising setting). And I won't even begin to speak about all these low caste FW players who think the veil is optional...
And I end up playing with my usual RP partners behind closed doors.

And "Earth RP"? Lol! Seriously, a term that old Gor crappers use when they chat about RP environments which are not Gor. ROIF is not Earth..... I was not in an Earth RP when I played in Mystara, neither.


I'm seriously at a loss if I should be amused, or concerned about your state of mind. So I shall err on the side of caution and once more, explain everything as slowly as I can.

But I'm encouraged to see you're learning something from me, and the list I posted of SL Gor's busiest sims belonging to Lifestylers. Now you're trying to use that knowledge against me? I admire it Sasi, you're showing progress :D

I've brought Anarch and Oor around to accepting ROIAF had its flaws too, so there's no reason you cannot learn too.

I think Illyros is the model every genre should follow, for wasting everyone's time, effort and money. What did anyone gain from it, other than you having a private sim to yourself, for playing with your OOC friends behind closed doors.

Nice try, Sasi, but "Earth RP" was mentioned in conjunction with Days of O, which happens to be set on Earth.
"You don't see people here complaining about Earth RP, because they visited a Days of O sim"

Sasi wrote:Also, Tantus, at the end, what do you know exactly about the state of SL Gor...? Because :

Since 2010 I think I've roleplayed in Gor about 3 times, by joining and supporting a sim, for around 3 months at a time. That's how often a sim comes along which I felt comfortable about roleplaying in, and happened to have the time to commit.

Three sims? Well, we have Tarnwald... But what were the two others? I'm curious.


I have friends in Gor and other genres too, it seems everyone has complaints of roleplaying sims across the grid.

The sims I was involved in were:
Thentis in 2009 and Tarnwald in 2014'ish, both from supporting friends. Laura Outpost in 2017, I decided to join since it was a quiet little town, with no activity at all I could roleplay with a slave or two. Then 'Ar' happened, it was an unexpected distraction but actually grew into something worthwhile. When it finally simmered down I still hadn't managed to roleplay with any slaves. These are the sacrifices we make to win virtual wars.

I've roleplayed briefly at other venues too though not as a committed character, it's when I'm passing through Gor to see what's changed.


Sasi wrote:When the sim owners are truly a lifestyler, there is always at least a few hints in the rules which reflect their orientation. I remembered a chat with one of the owners or admins, a woman, Raven, I guess. Her char was a slave and she had been very helpful about a question I had. She never called me mistress (usually, in OOC, it rings a bell to me, when it happens).


A whole swathe of Goreans are confused about what they are, they'll call themselves Roleplayers and even appear of a sensible nature. That's the honey trap at work.

Sasi wrote:Understanding is a form of support. Unlike you, I don't understand this kennel crap. As I said, in sims I administrated, this crap has never been accepted (and some of these sims had a high traffic, the last one, Kaelus, hit 40K). Also, in a previous post, I exposed a simple solution, one which takes in consideration the fact there is an adult person behind the slave player.

I don't believe in your sense of observation. Especially after you claimed you played about 3 times in joining a sim, since 2010.


Solidarity is a form of support, understanding is empathic.

Kaelus reached 40k on your GM tournament nights. When you get a sim going with 60 avatars online all day and dozens of slaves joining in every week, then see how well your proposals work out. But you'll never be in that situation since most of your RP is with "...usual RP partners behind closed doors."

Sasi wrote:I don't refer to an incident. I refer to a trade alliance between several sims, done in character but organized with a secret agenda (the author, erm, was not too discret on his real motivations....) in order to isolate a sim which had just banned one....
And if you wondered, "trade alliance" with other sims is definitely not exactly what I call a political RP.... But to each his own.


There's no need in beating around the bush, which year and which sim was involved? I'm not recalling the detail myself.

Sasi wrote:Cyprianus... 2011! Actually, I was one of the 3 co-owners and to tell the truth, my voice counted for peanuts. Every time I tried to set a RP standard, it failed. Just requiring a basic level of Gor knowledge was dismissed by the two other co-owners. I remember when I tried to set a standard for the duels, requiring at least one emote + time given to the opponent for he reads and reacts (a rule that is now, commonly enforced). Two assassins had been been beaten by a scribe which had caught them while they were rping with other people, entirely by suprise, with a sword. That was silly, unrealistic. But it caused a fight amongst the co-owners, my proposition was rejected... I hated these GE fighters. They brought troubles in raids, they showed up only when a raid was expected. At the end, I gave up (and left).


I had been in support of the emoting an intent to attack, and awaiting the counter-emote before attacking. I would still do it this way, however, having seen how deliberately people cheat during that delay(Taking 10 minutes and IM'ing friends, group chats, sim admins, and posting a huge paragraph then charging the opponent whilst he's still reading), I preferred the former approach to combat. When blades could be drawn at any instant it kept you alert to your surrounding, there was always tension in the air when hostiles were around, with wild-west style standoffs when you roleplayed with them. Knowing at any instant a blade would be drawn and you went straight into combat-mode.

Those two assassins who were captured were at fault for becoming complacent.

Sasi wrote:I remember, Tantus, that you spoke glowingly about Capua. Are you aware that many of these Capua people, can be met in ROIAF......? Those players whose RP you enjoyed in Capua... Now, they're toxic in ROIAF...?


A whole bunch of ROIAF's roleplayers were from SL Gor. In Capua I was hardly involved in the political sphere, whilst I hadn't intended to play a gladiator there, I did so to balance the populations between each ludus.

Sasi wrote:Same for me. As I said, I don't RP with snowflakes, I stopped dealing their non sense in character. But usually, the best you can do is not to start a storyline with them. When your char is outdoors, these people run into you for a random scene. Not to mention you can still observe others, look at their profiles, read their backstories.... A profile tends to give a good insight of what to expect from a fellow RPer...


Don't be afraid of meeting with strangers.

A good emoter isn't necessarily a good roleplayer.
An average emoter can become surprisingly entertaining roleplay.
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Tantus » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:55 pm

Anarch Allegiere wrote:If it wasn't true, to me, I wouldn't be saying it.

The main reason why I have my opinions is because I've gotten used to higher standards and once you get used to those it becomes really hard to enjoy the basic bullshit that keeps getting shoved around in SL Gor.

Maybe we're just arguing tastes here, I don't know, but I believe that the chances I'll ever be convinced differently are currently close to 0,01%.


It's probably the 30th post you've made comparing Lifestyle players to ROIAF's roleplayers.

I should consider opening a thread on how to spot Lifestyle sims and their residents, it would save you and Sasi a whole lot of disappointment in how often you guys engage with shotgun RP'ing mambas. When you're out looking for trash in Gor's dirtiest streets you're going to find it.

It feels like you're reaching to the lowest standard on the grid to feel better about the places you roleplay.

Anarch wrote:Exactly how does that work when every Gor sim opens the door to visitors and 'interacting' with each other?


ROIAF swung to the opposite extreme where hardly anyone was found on the streets. It wasn't unusual to see 20 avatars on the sim, with 16 of those up in the skybox stood OOC'ly, and anyone IC stood alone in their homes. Players only left their houses during court and public events, where a handful of characters led the roleplaying and everyone else posted irrelevant reactions.

Anarch wrote:In my memory the problems I mentioned are very wide-spread too. It's not like only a small minority is affected by it. It feels more like 90% of the role players in SL Gor are affected by it and they keep feeding of each other's or reinforcing each other's bad approach to RP. Even in the better gorean sims I remember regularly running into these types on an almost daily basis, but perhaps that is because of my own 'non-elitist' approach of trying to RP with as many people as possible and to be inclusive with my stories.

The approach you're suggesting sounds like it would simply result in me sitting in my house avoiding RP with strangers and maybe doing one RP scene every other two weeks or so with the 1 or 2 other people in SL Gor who are worth it to RP with at the time. An approach which you criticized earlier in this thread when you commented that sims should "recruit people who actually role play".


There is a limitation to the types of people you roleplay with, that's true of any genre. But not everyone is approached for the craft, some characters you'll interact with for the possibilities they open in your wider story arcs. It's hardly punishing, you lead the roleplay, you reach agreements and you move on. As I mentioned in another post, Roleplaying is hard work, you have to shovel some shit to build the good moments.

A majority of SL Gor has belonged to the Lifestyle for a decade, they'll never change, no amount of forum posting can correct their course. Do yourself a favour and only enter Gor when you're acquainted with the sim owner and residents.


Anarch wrote:As for ROIAF being the most toxic community? Maybe. But it's also one of the few RP sims on which I've actually seen people play out unexpected defeat, and something I orchestrated myself rather recently (read: half a year ago): mass death scenes without anyone raging about it. Which for me will remain one of the most epic and most satisfying grand RP scenes I've ever witnessed.


By the timeline, I'd assume it was an event connected to the impending reboot?
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Qingwen » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:58 am

Tantus wrote:With so many towns and counties to populate they'll very likely go F2P by the second/third year.


:thumbup:

Tantus wrote:I think Illyros is the model every genre should follow, for wasting everyone's time, effort and money. What did anyone gain from it, other than you having a private sim to yourself, for playing with your OOC friends behind closed doors.


Maybe some did that, but not all, or even most. Personally, I had fun there, was out in public areas the whole time, and rp'd with several people I had never met before. Not a whiff of OOC drama that affected me - people just rolled with the scenes, and it was never that boring 20 line paga-serve crap nor far-fetched things like elderly grannie slaves and veiled southern FW bartenders with Torvie husbands (true story). The vetting process in Illyros worked, much as I dislike apps generally. If I ever rp'd in Gor again, I'd look for something similar.
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Sasi
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Sasi » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:26 am

Tantus wrote:I'm seriously at a loss if I should be amused, or concerned about your state of mind. So I shall err on the side of caution and once more, explain everything as slowly as I can.
But I'm encouraged to see you're learning something from me, and the list I posted of SL Gor's busiest sims belonging to Lifestylers. Now you're trying to use that knowledge against me? I admire it Sasi, you're showing progress :D
I've brought Anarch and Oor around to accepting ROIAF had its flaws too, so there's no reason you cannot learn too.
I think Illyros is the model every genre should follow, for wasting everyone's time, effort and money. What did anyone gain from it, other than you having a private sim to yourself, for playing with your OOC friends behind closed doors.
Nice try, Sasi, but "Earth RP" was mentioned in conjunction with Days of O, which happens to be set on Earth.
"You don't see people here complaining about Earth RP, because they visited a Days of O sim"


I'm not trying to use anything against you, Tantus, you're repeating again and again the same thing since the beginning. Basically, slamming all sims which were not combat oriented, which used text combat, didn't encourage inter-sims RP, focused on political RP, set standards and welcomed para-rpers over one liners.

You accuse the rest of SL Gor to be lifestyle (and nor me or Anarch are disagreeing, it's our point of view since years) and you bash the sims, like Kaelus, ORS, Illyros, which turned lifestylers off..... At the end, everything to suit your anti-ROIAF agenda.
Gonna become an anti-Illyros agenda, I suspect, since people keep speaking of this sim in very positive terms, laugh!

Earth RP is still a term commonly used in SL Gor to talk about other genres. And Days of O doesn't exactly appear like a role-play sim. I heard about it, was it not a BDSM sim?

Tantus wrote:The sims I was involved in were:
Thentis in 2009 and Tarnwald in 2014'ish, both from supporting friends. Laura Outpost in 2017, I decided to join since it was a quiet little town, with no activity at all I could roleplay with a slave or two. Then 'Ar' happened, it was an unexpected distraction but actually grew into something worthwhile. When it finally simmered down I still hadn't managed to roleplay with any slaves. These are the sacrifices we make to win virtual wars.


The war in Kaelus against Hochburg never stopped those who were the most involved in this IC conflict, to still play their storylines, with other characters, free or slaves. Theoden who had built all the war setting, organized eveything with the involved sims, IC as OOC, was still capable of running another whole sim storyline (rebellion against the Arian occupation) while playing another story with his slave. And he didn't even need to spend 8 hours per day online.
And you want to convince me that your focus is more on role play when a bunch of combats prevented you to roleplay with a slave or two...? Huuuh..... Sure, laugh!

Tantus wrote:A whole swathe of Goreans are confused about what they are, they'll call themselves Roleplayers and even appear of a sensible nature. That's the honey trap at work.


Hmmmm... What did I already say, about Gor players and sims... Ah yes...! That most are firmly convinced they are RPers, sims owners never label their sim as lifestyle, consider they only set a role play environment, when in fact, it's just BS...
Are you agreeing with me, finally???

Tantus wrote:Solidarity is a form of support, understanding is empathic.
Kaelus reached 40k on your GM tournament nights. When you get a sim going with 60 avatars online all day and dozens of slaves joining in every week, then see how well your proposals work out. But you'll never be in that situation since most of your RP is with "...usual RP partners behind closed doors."


Sorry, empathy is, as well, a form of support. When you show understanding and empathy, you are in a context of acceptation. Which is a form of support.
I proved there was a simple solution against these dozens of slaves joining every week. Also, Kaelus was not the kind of sim that attracted all the crappy slave players of SL Gor, nor were ORS, or Illyros.
And stop quoting me out of context. I think I explained well enough why my RP evolved toward scenes behind closed doors with my usual RP partners.. Basically, because it became the only way to avoid the crap brought by snowflakes, welcomed every where.
And what was the last sim with 60 avatars online, already? I guess it recently closed. 60 avatars online were never what you could commonly see, the previous years, in SL Gor.

Tantus wrote:There's no need in beating around the bush, which year and which sim was involved? I'm not recalling the detail myself.

Sais banning Tarwnald. And you, immediately starting to set a trade alliance with a bunch of sims, without being very discret about your real motivations which were to isolate Sais. IC retaliation for OOC motivations.
And I'm sure you will have a bunch of arguments to oppose, in your defense, to prove me by A + B that it has never been your intentions blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
I'm sure I refreshed your memory and it's sufficient.

I'm not really judging you, neither... Having the sim where you play banned by another can be kind of irking. It's often caused by some juvenile cool guys who can't deal an issue with maturity (of both sides). They rage, reset meter, etc and drama happen.
But here you and I definitely differ... Personally, I just don't give a fuck. I don't play with idiots, intersim RP just bring crap (no wonder why Illyros was a stand alone sim) and I will certainly not waste my time in setting some boring intersim RP just in order to piss off another sim. I don't involve my RL ego in role-play, in fact.

Tantus wrote:I had been in support of the emoting an intent to attack, and awaiting the counter-emote before attacking. I would still do it this way, however, having seen how deliberately people cheat during that delay(Taking 10 minutes and IM'ing friends, group chats, sim admins, and posting a huge paragraph then charging the opponent whilst he's still reading), I preferred the former approach to combat. When blades could be drawn at any instant it kept you alert to your surrounding, there was always tension in the air when hostiles were around, with wild-west style standoffs when you roleplayed with them. Knowing at any instant a blade would be drawn and you went straight into combat-mode.

Those two assassins who were captured were at fault for becoming complacent.


My my... You have seen people cheat, IM friends, etc etc...? But Tantus, are you not the one who asked me with whom I played, where I played, when I reported example of crap RP I had witnessed...? Should I return you the question...?
And no, these two assassins were not at fault. In a real situation, in a real world, they're would have been able to see the scribe approach, they would have heard his steps and clearly, they wouldn't have been stupidly slain... But the scribe was not on these players' screen, and in SL, we don't make a lot of sound.

Tantus wrote:A whole bunch of ROIAF's roleplayers were from SL Gor. In Capua I was hardly involved in the political sphere, whilst I hadn't intended to play a gladiator there, I did so to balance the populations between each ludus.

Sounds to me as you didn't really RP with a lot of people, finally, in Capua.

Tantus wrote:
Don't be afraid of meeting with strangers.
A good emoter isn't necessarily a good roleplayer.
An average emoter can become surprisingly entertaining roleplay.


Tantus, if I had been afraid of meeting with "strangers", I wouldn't have all these anecdotes to report about my encountering with SL Gor players....
Recently, unless my memory gets wrong, you explained to me that being familiar with the RP etiquette didn't ncessarily make of someone a good player. Now, a good emoter neither. What does it rest...?

We could talk about what is a good emote, though... But usually, when a player is creative (but able to respect the lore), give me something to react, can express well his character's emotions and personality, bring me to an unexpected outcome (without messing with the RP etiquette) I'm quite happy.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:42 am

Tantus wrote:By the timeline, I'd assume it was an event connected to the impending reboot?


Nope, it wasn't anywhere near or related to a reboot.

It was entirely player driven, as one of the admins I provided the framework, but it was a surprise to everyone, the other admins included. The players had to make the choice between risk and reward and in the process some players called shots that got other characters killed, including some of the admins. Not a whiff of drama, probably because people were shocked, impressed, still excited from what they just had been part of. I don't know. But it was one of the greatest most fun RP experiences I've had in a long time.

Your surprise or questioning it, is kinda evidence in itself tho of how extremely rare it is getting conflict and mass death RP scenes to work... and if this had been with the average gorean RPer, that would've never flied.


I also think you're oversimplifying the problem with Gor. You're saying it's only the lifestylers, but it really isn't. There's loads of different types of RPers in SL Gor, not all of them are lifestylers (I'd argue those aren't very common), but a great majority of them just don't accept the basic rules of RP. You play, you write, you play out the story without doing anything 'unfair' OOC rules wise and you just go with it wherever it goes.

You posted a list earlier of 'great RPers', but I'd argue that too many of the people on that list still couldn't RP for shit if they didn't have full control over where their story went. Rage quiting over defeat, blaming everything on cheating, or generally not even being interested in creating or maintaining a story world around them.

It's just the fault of Gor really:
- sims very lax with RP etiquette or who don't even have a basic understanding of it
- sims owned by a bunch of people who constantly bend the rules in their favor or those of their friends
- sims owned by people who have certain biases against female or slave characters and their players
- sims owned by people who are more interested in meter combat / raiding / romancing than creating stories
- people being able to just hop to the next sim whenever they got caught breaking rules or misbehaving (in other genres people actually have to get on their knees and crawl back and promise to change because it's the only sim of that genre or all their friends are playing there etc. There is more of a disciplinary system)
The list goes on of major issues with the setup of SL Gor.

Then there are of course what I personally find issues too, but other people might have less understanding for:
- No real respect for authenticity or a living NPC world with consequences
- No real system or rules for dealing with realistic or potential NPC forces
The latter is important for story and politics RP imo. Having some sort of Game Master who keeps that rolling and keeps presenting people with new challenges (and rewards) is crucial for story generation, imo. Then you have sims who outright ban NPCs (even non-combat ones) which leaves you to wonder wtf they're even trying to do.
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Tantus » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:29 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:Nope, it wasn't anywhere near or related to a reboot.

It was entirely player driven, as one of the admins I provided the framework, but it was a surprise to everyone, the other admins included. The players had to make the choice between risk and reward and in the process some players called shots that got other characters killed, including some of the admins. Not a whiff of drama, probably because people were shocked, impressed, still excited from what they just had been part of. I don't know. But it was one of the greatest most fun RP experiences I've had in a long time.

Your surprise or questioning it, is kinda evidence in itself tho of how extremely rare it is getting conflict and mass death RP scenes to work... and if this had been with the average gorean RPer, that would've never flied.

► Show Spoiler


It sure is difficult having a mass of people roleplaying consequences, good to hear you all enjoyed it!

I will combine a post here as you and Sasi were raising similar points:

Sasi wrote:I'm not trying to use anything against you, Tantus, you're repeating again and again the same thing since the beginning. Basically, slamming all sims which were not combat oriented, which used text combat, didn't encourage inter-sims RP, focused on political RP, set standards and welcomed para-rpers over one liners.

You accuse the rest of SL Gor to be lifestyle (and nor me or Anarch are disagreeing, it's our point of view since years) and you bash the sims, like Kaelus, ORS, Illyros, which turned lifestylers off..... At the end, everything to suit your anti-ROIAF agenda.
Gonna become an anti-Illyros agenda, I suspect, since people keep speaking of this sim in very positive terms, laugh!

Earth RP is still a term commonly used in SL Gor to talk about other genres. And Days of O doesn't exactly appear like a role-play sim. I heard about it, was it not a BDSM sim?


I haven't slammed non-metered sims :)
On these forums I've often said the BTB genre should go meterless, it will optimise their builds for roleplaying alone. Combat once added elements of excitement, in a different time with different players.

Text-combat plays out about as smoothly as metered-combat, there was once a push for it in SL Gor by a bunch of 'advanced roleplayers'(not friends of yours), they soon realized how tedious it becomes. I've encountered it on Urban RP sims where players routinely accused others of powergaing and calling for mods, just as happens in GM combat. And I'm not knocking ROIAF here, but as an example the duels there can go on for hours, like 3-4 hours of posting back and forth your melee strikes.

GM combat had the advantage when combat was over swiftly and you could spend the next 3 hours+ roleplaying the aftermath, which occasionally was an OOC aftermath. Nothing is perfect.

I suspect there's some crossover between Days of O's players and regular BTB Gor, haven't looked into it myself. And I don't judge Earth RP sims, the urban, supernatural, survival and such by the standard of DoO's players. Each sim should be seen on its own merits.

So we don't disagree on the dire state of SL Gor, but I do object to throwing all Gorean Roleplayers into that Lifestyle bracket. Neither do I harbour any resentment towards 'advanced RP' sims, I just expect some tangible evidence will be offered alongside their criticism of other sims. This goes beyond Illyrios or ROIAF, there hasn't been an 'advanced RP' sim which lasted for any length of time, in any genre.

ROIAF is populated by excellent writers, but the activity fluctuated through several quiet phases where not an avatar was seen on sim for months. Over the years it would become active, and then quiet, then active. And when rival GoT-RP sims opened it pulled a crowd away from ROIAF.

The only conclusion I draw from this is, pulling a group of roleplayers together who understand etiquettes, applications, backstories, flaws and so on, it isn't enough. It's the most basic standard, even a zero-day roleplayer comprehends etiquette. So centring sims on the basis your members are 'better than Gor' and understand basic etiquette isn't revolutionary, those players still bring their issues with them and sims still close to repetitive, uninspired themes. It takes a very dedicated team to keep a sim alive, continually pushing new content, planning for future events, scripting them and all whilst engaging with the thankless residents and their many complaints.

I don't target you guys, even you will accept you've routinely pushed ROIAF's standards as impeccable, without acknowledging the challenges in keeping those 'advanced RP' sims active. It's actually not an admin fault, I view it as a player's failure to inspire their peers.

When Qingwen says she found fun roleplayers in Illyros, I don't doubt it, I just don't imagine they were there towards the sim's end.

I've really moved on from being critical about Gor, it once troubled me to see SL's most spontaneous and liberal venue reigning in its violence, but then I moved forwards and removed the issue from my mind. There're more important things in the world to be concerned about, and I do think you guys pay far too much attention on irrelevant people in irrelevant sims.

Move on and ask yourself the difficult question of why 'advanced roleplayers' fail to hold a sim together for any length of time.
Tantus
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Tantus » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:46 am

Sais wrote:The war in Kaelus against Hochburg never stopped those who were the most involved in this IC conflict, to still play their storylines, with other characters, free or slaves. Theoden who had built all the war setting, organized eveything with the involved sims, IC as OOC, was still capable of running another whole sim storyline (rebellion against the Arian occupation) while playing another story with his slave. And he didn't even need to spend 8 hours per day online.
And you want to convince me that your focus is more on role play when a bunch of combats prevented you to roleplay with a slave or two...? Huuuh..... Sure, laugh!


Thanks for reminding me about the Kaelus/Hochburg war, I'd forgotten that detail. Hochburg was basically a Lifestyle sim who took GE gamers out on their raids, whilst their own sim's rules forbade any GE players from raiding them.

So far as I recall it that war didn't end well. Poor Theoden, he does put in a lot of effort into his schemes. We had IC encounters back in the day, usually violent and IM-rage-filled encounters(I like anyone who can rage without being a girl about it), but he brings something to the Gorean scene and it was always fun doing battle with him.

However, tell Theoden to stop playing an Easy-Mode Red Caste :D
Then he'll see what it means to be swamped under IC appointments all-fucking-night! It's like you tune into SL at the day's end and trawl through a list of virtual work.

Red Castes always have time for slaves, they do nothing else!

Sais wrote:Hmmmm... What did I already say, about Gor players and sims... Ah yes...! That most are firmly convinced they are RPers, sims owners never label their sim as lifestyle, consider they only set a role play environment, when in fact, it's just BS...
Are you agreeing with me, finally???


I've been saying it since 2009, back when you were still roleplaying on Lifestyle sims.

Sais wrote:Sorry, empathy is, as well, a form of support. When you show understanding and empathy, you are in a context of acceptation. Which is a form of support.
I proved there was a simple solution against these dozens of slaves joining every week. Also, Kaelus was not the kind of sim that attracted all the crappy slave players of SL Gor, nor were ORS, or Illyros.
And stop quoting me out of context. I think I explained well enough why my RP evolved toward scenes behind closed doors with my usual RP partners.. Basically, because it became the only way to avoid the crap brought by snowflakes, welcomed every where.
And what was the last sim with 60 avatars online, already? I guess it recently closed. 60 avatars online were never what you could commonly see, the previous years, in SL Gor.


You're welcome to your own definitions. Conservative, far-right governments usually take a hostile view towards understanding the dissidents' concerns, they have a need to maintain authority through suppressing free thought. People like you are dangerous, you're afraid of having your truths questioned.

A solution was proposed, you haven't proven it works on high traffic sims with an endless train of slaves arriving every week. Jasmine was a busy sim earlier this year, they held 40-60 avatars on sim for consecutive months.

Sais wrote:Sais banning Tarwnald. And you, immediately starting to set a trade alliance with a bunch of sims, without being very discret about your real motivations which were to isolate Sais. IC retaliation for OOC motivations.
And I'm sure you will have a bunch of arguments to oppose, in your defense, to prove me by A + B that it has never been your intentions blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
I'm sure I refreshed your memory and it's sufficient.


I'd never waste my time on such an effort for the sake of Sais, being banned by them was nothing new. The Trade Alliance roleplay happened because a friend of mine joined us in Tarnwald, she easily seduces men into signing what she wants and that makes for an excellent envoy.

We travelled around Gor and formed an alliance, the roleplay happened because she's into it and I like people who put themselves out there and make a personal effort, meeting new people, seducing them into signing over treaties with no intercourse involved. How can one woman be so seductive? Usually without knowing she is and I just exploited her. This is how I treat my friends.

Feel free to post anything I wrote of the alliance being in exclusive opposition to Sais. Perhaps in GC we had a 'fuck Sais' attitude, it's nothing unusual.

Sasi wrote:My my... You have seen people cheat, IM friends, etc etc...? But Tantus, are you not the one who asked me with whom I played, where I played, when I reported example of crap RP I had witnessed...? Should I return you the question...?
And no, these two assassins were not at fault. In a real situation, in a real world, they're would have been able to see the scribe approach, they would have heard his steps and clearly, they wouldn't have been stupidly slain... But the scribe was not on these players' screen, and in SL, we don't make a lot of sound.


Absolutely ask anything you need. I haven't been so intrusive into your roleplaying past, it's only when you make outlandish claims that I felt some perspective was necessary.

As a non-combatant, I don't think you'll appreciate the meaning of being armed in Gor during that era. And I don't say this to be rude, but Gor was part-game, part-roleplaying, a very hostile environment to roleplay in and you were always listening for the sound of movement or weapons being drawn. This constant state of readiness was the cost for being armed and you could argue it's not roleplaying, but I preferred that level of immersion.

The only time we were caught out, was with Vladimir and I sparring on our sim, when 10 Black Talons landed on our docks then charged up and downed us on the field. They were not a bad group but we probably would have defeated them 10v2 if we weren't distracted, so they took us home and killed us. That was the Gor Life. That's how you learned to be more attentive and not go crying to some mod for new rules, and more, and more, until the danger is gone.

Sasi wrote:Sounds to me as you didn't really RP with a lot of people, finally, in Capua.


One of the pitfalls of roleplaying a gladiator was it restricted your access to the outside world, we roleplayed among ourselves and those who came to visit us.

Sais wrote:Tantus, if I had been afraid of meeting with "strangers", I wouldn't have all these anecdotes to report about my encountering with SL Gor players....
Recently, unless my memory gets wrong, you explained to me that being familiar with the RP etiquette didn't ncessarily make of someone a good player. Now, a good emoter neither. What does it rest...?

We could talk about what is a good emote, though... But usually, when a player is creative (but able to respect the lore), give me something to react, can express well his character's emotions and personality, bring me to an unexpected outcome (without messing with the RP etiquette) I'm quite happy.


It seems like you only encounter mambas/torvie hybrids when you're out in Gor.

A good roleplayer is someone who invests their talent into the wider community on a sim level.
On a personal level, their emotes open opportunities for the other player, they can build tension and make their partner sit back and actually think, before responding. They understand roleplaying is much like a RL conversation and how to keep people engaged.

Compared to someone who writes really well, but is too invested into themselves, every emote is centred onto their character, their past, their traits, their family history. Initially players will be impressed by the quality of emoting, then soon realise this person is only interested in themselves.

A good roleplayer isn't necessarily a good writer, they're someone who engages their partner and makes them question what they would actually do in that situation. Absolutely can find people who are both, good writers and roleplayers, but these people are rare.

Some of my memorable encounters were with people who weren't amazing writers, they were just a lot of fun to roleplay with.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:52 am

Tantus wrote:Text-combat plays out about as smoothly as metered-combat, there was once a push for it in SL Gor by a bunch of 'advanced roleplayers'(not friends of yours), they soon realized how tedious it becomes. I've encountered it on Urban RP sims where players routinely accused others of powergaing and calling for mods, just as happens in GM combat. And I'm not knocking ROIAF here, but as an example the duels there can go on for hours, like 3-4 hours of posting back and forth your melee strikes.


True.

But that is a matter of streamlining the rules. Combat or battles (between NPC armies) taking too long is an issue I regularly raised and which I believe we managed to fix with new rules. It also depends on the admin tbh... I always encouraged people to keep posts short and to the point and to keep combat going quickly. One other admin in specific seemed to really enjoy long drawn out battles, but I never was a fan of that.

All depends on what rules you wish to use really. And a fight scene taking a few hours might not always be bad, especially if it is a climatic scene that seeks to end a long ongoing conflict. It depends, but I acknowledge that text combat can get tedious if people don't get encouraged to keep their emotes to the point. A single line is often enough if you're not trying to add anything of substances to the scene or story.

I suspect there's some crossover between Days of O's players and regular BTB Gor


In my experience there is some cross-over, but the greatest cross-over I see is that the 'better' / higher standards non-Gor sims tend to be full with people who 'are over' SL Gor. I've met people who I used to RP with many years ago in SL Gor, but who have given up on it entirely. Great writers, fun people and story creators. At some point people interested in role play start realizing that something is missing in SL Gor. Not enough focus on story or conflict being played out till the end, so they move on and try to find something that 'makes more sense' instead of the nonsensical hot mess SL Gor is (eg: lack of story background, a majority of characters that role play they've lived in a dozen different cities and castes, etc.)

So we don't disagree on the dire state of SL Gor, but I do object to throwing all Gorean Roleplayers into that Lifestyle bracket. Neither do I harbour any resentment towards 'advanced RP' sims, I just expect some tangible evidence will be offered alongside their criticism of other sims. This goes beyond Illyrios or ROIAF, there hasn't been an 'advanced RP' sim which lasted for any length of time, in any genre.


Well, I think the issue goes beyond just lifestylers. How long such sims or genres stay open depends on the sim owners really.

ROIAF is populated by excellent writers, but the activity fluctuated through several quiet phases where not an avatar was seen on sim for months. Over the years it would become active, and then quiet, then active. And when rival GoT-RP sims opened it pulled a crowd away from ROIAF.


I think that is fine though. It is why I also introduced the concept of "chapters", because I understood the cyclical nature of RP sims. Every few months you need to try and dazzle people with something big, new and exciting.

The only conclusion I draw from this is, pulling a group of roleplayers together who understand etiquettes, applications, backstories, flaws and so on, it isn't enough. It's the most basic standard, even a zero-day roleplayer comprehends etiquette. So centring sims on the basis your members are 'better than Gor' and understand basic etiquette isn't revolutionary, those players still bring their issues with them and sims still close to repetitive, uninspired themes. It takes a very dedicated team to keep a sim alive, continually pushing new content, planning for future events, scripting them and all whilst engaging with the thankless residents and their many complaints.


I do not disagree with this. You need 'story creators' and people who are willing to take risks or make moves. Those are very rare even among the better role players. It is why I find that Story Admins are an important part of any genre. Create some stories and situations which will encourage people towards being at odds with one another or into competition.

Move on and ask yourself the difficult question of why 'advanced roleplayers' fail to hold a sim together for any length of time.


Same answers as above.

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but 'studying RP' seems to be something I've done over the past few decades. I think I've a pretty good understanding of why and when RP doesn't work by now.

Illyros for example didn't fly because of two major issues:
- Many Gor players couldn't wrap their heads around the whole "standalone sim concept"
- Many Gor players got offended when they were asked to fill out applications or make adjustments
- People who were non-Gor basically didn't trust to give it a try because of SL Gor's bad reputation. I managed to get a few people over, but not near enough to give the sim a sense of being active. I also feel like the sim opened too fast. My personal desire was to hype it up for much longer before opening the doors, but the sim owner insisted on it all going very fast and in the end vanished without a trace too...

I would've loved it if Ilyros could've gotten to the point of us being able to analyse what was wrong from a RP perspective, but it never met the starting population to even begin that. I believe many Gorean players would've been pleasantly surprised too to see how different Gor RP could be.
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Sasi
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Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Sasi » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:16 am

Tantus wrote:Thanks for reminding me about the Kaelus/Hochburg war, I'd forgotten that detail. Hochburg was basically a Lifestyle sim who took GE gamers out on their raids, whilst their own sim's rules forbade any GE players from raiding them.

So far as I recall it that war didn't end well. Poor Theoden, he does put in a lot of effort into his schemes. We had IC encounters back in the day, usually violent and IM-rage-filled encounters(I like anyone who can rage without being a girl about it), but he brings something to the Gorean scene and it was always fun doing battle with him.

However, tell Theoden to stop playing an Easy-Mode Red Caste :D
Then he'll see what it means to be swamped under IC appointments all-fucking-night! It's like you tune into SL at the day's end and trawl through a list of virtual work.

Red Castes always have time for slaves, they do nothing else!

No, Hochburg was not a lifestyle sim. Not -this- Hochburg. It had been opened by a little bunch of ex-Trevians, ex-Clearchus, and I had never seen these people enforce any kind of lifestyle.
I know nothing about the GE players they would have taken in their raids (I didn't play in Hochburg). I remember, during the war Kaelus/Hochburg, that some Hoch allies caused troubles. Kaelus was winning and troubles just increased. We dealt with a lot of immature people. Nothing unusual in SL Gor, after all.

I'm not getting what you mean with these IC appointments and I prefer people who can rage without being a boy about it. You always find an agreement with people "girl-ragging", they don't put their big ego in the middle of the discussion.

Tantus wrote:Red Castes always have time for slaves, they do nothing else!

That would be the case in a perfect SL Gor. But actually, warriors of SL Gor, like most SL Gor men, spend more time courting a FW they will FC, then fuck as if she was a slave....

Tantus wrote:I've been saying it since 2009, back when you were still roleplaying on Lifestyle sims.

These sims don't label them as lifestyles. So far, the Gorean sims where I played since 2010:
Cardonicus, Telus, Fields of Cardonicus, Rovere, Kailani (admin), Tarnwald (co-owner), Turia (admin), Saphronicus, Treve, Cyprianus (co-owner), Oasis of the Red Scimitar (admin), Malignance - Tales of Port Kar, Ko-ro-ba - Towers of Morning, Tarnwald, Kaelus (co-owner), 3 Ar sims (cali then Nero), Illyros (admin), Khalida.

I think I never really played in sims that were more lifestyle than your Thentis from 2010, actually. I don't count the bunch of sims I randomly visited with friends, where we were looking for a decent place.

Tantus wrote:You're welcome to your own definitions. Conservative, far-right governments usually take a hostile view towards understanding the dissidents' concerns, they have a need to maintain authority through suppressing free thought. People like you are dangerous, you're afraid of having your truths questioned.
A solution was proposed, you haven't proven it works on high traffic sims with an endless train of slaves arriving every week. Jasmine was a busy sim earlier this year, they held 40-60 avatars on sim for consecutive months.

I remember, the second Ar opened by cali, was high traffic, allowed slave players to pick the role they wanted, with a NPC owner. There was not endless train of slaves arriving each week.

In fact, you have to choose what kind of slave players you want in your sim. Mature people, able to take care of their RP, their story who don't need to be "babysitted", or the opposite, the noobs, the cookie cutters and other doormats who are lost if not told what to RP?

My very -liberal- system leads to a somewhat natural selection..... When conservative, far-right kennels welcome every slave player they are be able to control and who are willing to worship their lame slavers as well.

Jasmine, with its 60K traffic for months, was probably the busiest sim that has ever existed in SL Gor. And still, it closed. As Anarch explained, you always need to keep people interested with something big, new and exciting. Problem: Your admins spent a lot of time and energy on this issue, sometimes at the expense of their own RP and stories. After months, some will face a burn out, lose their motivation, etc. And players go seek excitment elsewhere, their own motivation and interest having vanished as well.

Tantus wrote:I'd never waste my time on such an effort for the sake of Sais, being banned by them was nothing new. The Trade Alliance roleplay happened because a friend of mine joined us in Tarnwald, she easily seduces men into signing what she wants and that makes for an excellent envoy.
We travelled around Gor and formed an alliance, the roleplay happened because she's into it and I like people who put themselves out there and make a personal effort, meeting new people, seducing them into signing over treaties with no intercourse involved. How can one woman be so seductive? Usually without knowing she is and I just exploited her. This is how I treat my friends.
Feel free to post anything I wrote of the alliance being in exclusive opposition to Sais. Perhaps in GC we had a 'fuck Sais' attitude, it's nothing unusual.

As I said, you were not so discret about your secret agenda. And don't ask me the logs. Be serious, it was in 2013... As for trade alliances RP, they tend to be boring. I like people who focus their RP efforts in the sim they joined, who RP with the people of this sim, create stories in this sim, instead of bringing their RP and traffic to other places. There is seldom thrilling stories to expect from these trade alliances RP, too, especially when these alliances are respected......

Tantus wrote:Absolutely ask anything you need. I haven't been so intrusive into your roleplaying past, it's only when you make outlandish claims that I felt some perspective was necessary.
As a non-combatant, I don't think you'll appreciate the meaning of being armed in Gor during that era. And I don't say this to be rude, but Gor was part-game, part-roleplaying, a very hostile environment to roleplay in and you were always listening for the sound of movement or weapons being drawn. This constant state of readiness was the cost for being armed and you could argue it's not roleplaying, but I preferred that level of immersion.
The only time we were caught out, was with Vladimir and I sparring on our sim, when 10 Black Talons landed on our docks then charged up and downed us on the field. They were not a bad group but we probably would have defeated them 10v2 if we weren't distracted, so they took us home and killed us. That was the Gor Life. That's how you learned to be more attentive and not go crying to some mod for new rules, and more, and more, until the danger is gone.


I was sarcastic... But see, I encounter lifestylers, you encounter cheaters... If I used your own arguments, I could question your choice of people and groups you choose to RP with, as you did with me.

Also, in 2007, I played a female outlaw (Shadow Outlaws) after I stopped playing a slave (tired of being treated like a sub in OOC). I raided, I fought, etc. Was fun, combat was everywhere. Even slave players could often wear a dagger. Gor in 2007 was still very lifestyle with almost no IC/OOC separation, but became more part-game than part-roleplaying. What you commonly get in actual GE sims. I can understand better than you think, your concerns about a combat environment.

But in Cyprianus, in 2011, we were already more into a full RP context (which I tried to enforce even more, with little success, as I said). We had, so, 2 guys (both assassins), involved in a scene, reading and typing posts (not sparring), when suddenly, some pew pew imbecile (scribe) falls on them like the misery on the poor world with a 40% damage sword. Excuse me, we could hardly speak of a context making sense in terms of realism and plausibility.
But I confess, totally acceptable in terms of gaming. That was where I disagreed with my co-owners, I wanted a sim with a strong emphasis put on role-play, not on gaming. Epic fail.

Tantus wrote:One of the pitfalls of roleplaying a gladiator was it restricted your access to the outside world, we roleplayed among ourselves and those who came to visit us.

Oh, so, I misunderstood you. I guess you told in a previous post that your char became the wealthiest one in Capua (or my memory sucks, I didn't get my dose of caffeine yet). I figured it had happened after a series of IC events where you would had passed throught different levels of the town's hierachy in order to raise in society, plotting schemes, making the right alliances, etc etc.
You are prompt to criticize the political RP genre, Tantus, but at the end, have you ever RP such a story...?

Tantus wrote:It seems like you only encounter mambas/torvie hybrids when you're out in Gor.

A good roleplayer is someone who invests their talent into the wider community on a sim level.
On a personal level, their emotes open opportunities for the other player, they can build tension and make their partner sit back and actually think, before responding. They understand roleplaying is much like a RL conversation and how to keep people engaged.

Compared to someone who writes really well, but is too invested into themselves, every emote is centred onto their character, their past, their traits, their family history. Initially players will be impressed by the quality of emoting, then soon realise this person is only interested in themselves.

A good roleplayer isn't necessarily a good writer, they're someone who engages their partner and makes them question what they would actually do in that situation. Absolutely can find people who are both, good writers and roleplayers, but these people are rare.

Some of my memorable encounters were with people who weren't amazing writers, they were just a lot of fun to roleplay with.


Tantus, have you often met, in SL Gor, IC families whose all members shared the same home stone, all offspring claimed their father's caste, whatever men or women? People who can keep the same home stone and caste for their character, over years when they refuse to create a new char? You know like me that people whose character have parents from different cultures are very common in SL Gor. And it's BS. I remember even having visited Southern cities in SL Gor, where you could meet more Torvie natives than in Torvi sims. For a period, especially after the release of Swordmen, several sims were invaded by Pani. Not to mention those people follow a non sense course in the Gorean Campus, then, register their Tuchuk char as scribe in a city... Just the average population of SL Gor. Because they don't really get the cultural aspect of Gor. They RP a Gorean character with a Earth mentality.

Also, you said in a previous post:
Tantus wrote:So we don't disagree on the dire state of SL Gor, but I do object to throwing all Gorean Roleplayers into that Lifestyle bracket.

But you keep arguing that I only joined lifestyle sims, label "lifestyle" a sim like Khalida... On one hand, you deny that most people in SL Gor have difficulties at distancing themselves from their character and embrace Gorean values in OOC (even if they are not real life lifestylers), and on the other hand, you claim that most sims are lifestyle oriented... Sorry Tantus, it's not very coherent.

About the definition of a good role players... Erm, by your standards, the RPers who are not investing their talent in "the wider community on a sim level" wouldn't be good RPers? What of those who spend much of their time out of their sim and seek RP in another? Often, they claim they are doing this for the sole purpose of bringing RP to the sim they initially joined. Which seldom happens. Personally, I tend to think they only seek their own contentment.

People who are invested into themselves stay alone. You cannot center a scene just on your own character and expect to keep people interested. It's not bad to give a hint about this character's past and history, etc, but it's all about context. In some scenes, it will add something interesting. In other scenes, it will be totally useless.
For me, a good RPer is not necessarily the one who has the best writing, turns his sentences in the best academic style (although, it can be very pleasant to read). But since my English is not flawess, I would be ridiculous to expect a professional writing from my RP partners, anyway.
A good RPer, from my point of vieux, is the one who can adjust to the context, expresses emotionally his character in a way that will make you feel these emotions, then immerse you totally in the story. They also make you become an active protagonist in the book they are writing, making you a co-writer.
I think we can agree on this last point.

But this purpose cannot be achevied with an one liner.

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