Tantus wrote:You're an idealist, it's not a picture of reality, you paint scenarios as you want to see them. It's why you haven't learned anything in the slightest about people roleplaying online, nothing since the days you mingled with Lifestylers pre-BTB.
Now you're trying to paint me as some 'old Gor' roleplayer, when I was probably the first person on these Forums and in SL Gor, highlighting the fact that the lifestyle was spreading into BTB sims. That was in 2009, when it could have been contained but people were too naive to see it.
Tantus wrote:So, I was visiting a friend at Khalida earlier this year and after camming the sim and looking through their groups, I told her it was a Lifestyle sim and nothing was going to happen there. And I recall seeing you across the sim too settled into your house. It's like you have this attraction to Lifestylers, Khalida in 2018, Lifestyle Ar in 2017, probably if we looked through your RP history, you've made an annual pilgrimage to Lifestyle sims since the good times you had with them in Old Gor.
With your past experiences, I can't believe you have this difficulty identifying Lifestylers now. There must be some intent, something which draws you to the flame.
Somehow I'm meant to believe you have a good judgement in choosing RP partners? Hi Erwin.
Tantus wrote:So far as I'm concerned, if I happen to see you on a Gorean sim(Like the many Ar failures), I immediately know it's going to have high ideals but zero substance.
But you're Sasi, you don't do mundane roleplay, it's all "...flirting, sex, violence, conflicts, rivalries" in your daily RP, which lasts for your average lifespan on a sim, of a week, two weeks? If your RP Life is this exciting then why are you always on the move.
I'm amazed with all of this exciting roleplay on deep and cohesive RP sims, you abandon it all to answer the call of Lifestyle sims. The only reason these lifestylers keep IM'ing you with "kajira", is they keep seeing you on their sims, they think you're one of them.
Tantus wrote:As for anything else, it's clear we do things differently. My whole concern with these threads on the Gorums is, when a group of people claim they do it better, with deep characters, lore-rich sims and whatever buzzwords are tossed into the mix, I have higher expectations from them.
Tantus wrote:I know I'm pushing this MMORPG, but take a look at Elyria. Groups on the EU server have been roleplaying out their regional histories, this post is indicative of what lays ahead for the RP intensive towns.
Sasi wrote:Are you serious, Tantus? You were highlighting the fact that lifestyle was spreading into BTB sims, in 2009? Did you just join in 2009? I joined SL Gor in 2006. And fortunately, in 2009, the lifestyle crap was decreasing.
Sasi wrote:Khalida was not a lifestyle sim. I joined it with a friend because of their laws. There was no slave laws, there was an emphasis put on the RP etiquette, there was NO specific law for assassins.
Here their rules (the non raid ones). Feel free to point the lifetyle points:
Sasi wrote:I don't join lifestyle sims, Tantus. For the simple reason that I read the rules of the sims I visit (I'm a rare species, in Gor, I suppose, the one who takes time to read the rules...). If a sim doesn't have dumb slave rules, obvious discriminative rules, emphasize the RP etiquette, allows the use of NPC, I may give it a try.
Sasi wrote:We definitely do things differently. Unlike you, I consider that slave players are not a different kind of players who should get a special OOC treatment. I have no prejudice toward people because the role they play or their gender as you do. I consider that metered combats and raids are not a requirement for keeping people interested, I enjoy IC political schemes and IC dramas and I don't need to waste my time in filling NCs in order to RP caste work. When you play with warriors players, you grant more importance to their combat skills than RP skills which puzzles me. You still appreciate the non sense mundane RP such as "go record your slaves, do slave exams" etc etc.
Sasi wrote:In fact, you just express some hostility toward people who definitely abide by standards which are commonly applied in other RP environments. Not something I understand well, because I see nothing wrong with people who RP by these common RP standards. Some personal conflict with one of them caused all this hostility?
Sasi wrote:Oh, and should I mention that I totally agree with Anarch's post? Did you read it, Tantus?
It summarizes well the reasons that made me lose my enjoyment in RPing in SL Gor, since now, 2 years (and a few months, I'm afraid). I never recovered this little flame and I have, now, zero patience.
Qingwen wrote:Got free characters? I'd pay maybe 20 bucks for a peasant or intelligent chicken
I'll keep an eye on that one, meantime I am still enjoying Conan Exiles. The rainforest map is beauuutiful.
I actually looked around SL Gor during 2006 and found it a very cringy place, the mix of lifestyling wasn't how I recognised roleplaying, I didn't stay for long. It's no surprise however, that you enjoyed this crowd.
When the BTB movement entered into 2009, then yes, this new breed of Lifestyler who disguised their sims as BTB Roleplaying ventures became the common theme. Then I could see it becoming the future of SL Gor, since trying to steer Gor off that course, I eventually retired. Because SL Gor is what the people want it to be and I stopped being a part of it.
Tantus wrote:Laws, sim descriptions, player profiles, it's all meaningless talk.
The sim was managed by a lifestyle character and that's all I needed to know. Historically you have a low standard of sims you've settled on, so it was good enough for you.
Tantus wrote:Yet you settled on Tarnwald where the rules clearly stated its slave registration process, a requirement you equate to Lifestyle sims. I see no sense in joining a sim, and later leaving because you disagreed with the laws. Save yourself the time and read them before settling in.
Tantus wrote:The people I've known in SL Gor, would tell you it doesn't describe my views at all. Show me anywhere I've said a slave-player should be treated differently OOC'ly. Or any log of my IM'ing a female with 'kajira'. I don't do those things, it's very silly.
In the general sense, FW players portrayed mature characters whom I preferred interacting with, over the nubile and virginal slaves who happened to be the standard type. Obviously it wasn't the case on your sims which are bursting with perfect portrayals of every style.
I've always valued a good Red Caste roleplayer over a gamer, it's been my attitude towards recruitment since the beginning and you'll not see anywhere I've posted otherwise. Neither had I invited hordes of GE players to defend our sims, that's something your friends do, so don't confuse me with them.
I really don't care about online people, but I do question bullshit.
This is how I interpret a profile claim:
"I'm a RL Master" - It speaks for his insecurities.
"I don't do drama" - Usually the cause of it.
"I'm an advanced roleplayer" - It speaks for his insecurities.
There's no difference between the first and third statement, what qualifies either of them?
Whilst you may be turned on by buzzwords and ambitions, I want to see the substance. Movie posters will tell you the latest Star Wars episodes are 5/5. Amazing. Brilliant. Exciting. But I fell asleep trying to watch the past two movies. That's just how I feel about overly hyped roleplaying sims, they get the marketing done admirably but when people leave that theatre its with a deflated sense of emptiness.
Tantus wrote:Sasi, you do nothing but agree with Anarch and Oor on these forums.
If Anarch posted the Earth was flat, you would agree 100%
If Oor claimed the Moon landings were fake, you would post links to Alex Jones as proof.
I don't say this to be mean, as a friend I will say you need to think independently too. It says nothing positive for one's ability to process information when they fanatically follow others. I once told you they were filling your impressionable mind with a fantasy, and guess how that turned out.
But a year ago, Anarch's impression of GoT players was of a flawless standard and you 'totally agreed' with him.
Today Anarch is open to acknowledging levels of toxicity within that community and you 'totally agree' with him.
Where is your opinion in all of this, your research, your reasoning?
Because the three of you make some valid points but then its crossed with these outlandish claims of player-perfection which draws a huge question mark over the entire thread, and what-the-fuck is going through your minds.
Anarch Allegiere wrote:As for ROIAF being the most toxic community? Maybe.
But it's also one of the few RP sims on which I've actually seen people play out unexpected defeat, and something I orchestrated myself rather recently (read: half a year ago): mass death scenes without anyone raging about it. Which for me will remain one of the most epic and most satisfying grand RP scenes I've ever witnessed.
Tantus wrote:But a year ago, Anarch's impression of GoT players was of a flawless standard and you 'totally agreed' with him.
Today Anarch is open to acknowledging levels of toxicity within that community and you 'totally agree' with him.
Anarch Allegiere wrote:Flawless or perfect? Fuck no.
Just "much better than SL Gor"... if long term storycrafting and creating / harvesting a bit of tension and suspension or long lasting social or personal consequences in your RP is what you enjoy. And just overall a much better understanding of RP etiquette. (Do note, I underlined 'creating', because just sitting around and expecting it to come isn't going to work in any RP sim).
I'm not sure why you're so opposed to that observation. Go to any SL Gor sim and tell me there aren't a few clowns running around who couldn't RP their way out of a wet paper bag. Why is it difficult to understand that in sims with application requirements a lot of people would get weeded out before they're even allowed to set foot in other people's storylines?
Does every RP genre have it's own issues? Of course, but for me the greatest solace is in knowing that the sim administration is actually genuinely interested in offering a platform focused on story-oriented role play. which in my opinion SL Gor sims just -can't- do unless they dare to break away from the mold and the "standard SL Gor sim rules".
Sasi wrote:I don't do an investigation on the sim owners. I just read the rules. If the rules please me, I may join. If it happens that the sim owner doesn't respect the sim rules, I leave. Simple like that.
But still, Khalida had very decent rules, the kind of rules you could expect to find in every sim in SL Gor.
Historically, I have a high standard of sims I join. Illyros for example, fitted perfectly these standards.
Sasi wrote:You're the one supporting specific rules protecting slave players against predators. A rule rather insulting toward the adult and mature players who play a slave, since by such a rule, they are litteraly considered like poor little fragile things who can't care well enough for themselves.
You're the one supporting the silly kennel system and you gave us, more once, your overall opinion on slave players, which is never positive (except once, which, for someone who is in SL Gor since, what, 10 years, speaks volumes...).
You're the one who expressed a prejudice toward slave players owning a sim, like the average old Gor crappy lifestyler.
I don't know why you insist on criticizing my RP partners. Must I repeat again that I don't play with snowflakes or drama idiots? I play with mature people, those who know their role.
Should I repost again your own comment where you tell how you train new additions to the red caste of your sim, which doesn't give them a lot of time to display their RP skills...?
And no, my friends never invited GE players to defend our sims. Incidentally, they never make brilliant plans to set alliances with other sims in order to OOCly isolate another just because its admins raid banned their own sim.......
Sasi wrote:Nor I or my RP partners label ourselves, especially not in our profiles. You accused us to be elitists. We are just RPers who can RP in respecting the basic RP rules which are the norm everywhere outside of SL Gor. Is it true that we could be seen as advanced RPers in SL Gor. Eh, after years of role-playing, we're quite experienced and we tend not to mess in doing mistakes that some Gor RPers repeat year after year. The term of advanced, anyway, unlike "elitist" has no pejorative connotation, just a way to speak of people who have experience and knowledge.
Sasi wrote:I agree with them when they phrase so well my own opinion. When you say something with which I can agree, I will support your claim as well (already did). When I disagree with Anarch, I say it (already did many times in these forums). I got some fights with Oor, too, some years ago, over other subjects. But sorry, Tantus, since the beginning of our discussions, I never expressed a different opinion than theirs, on the subject we're talking about.
Anarch didn't acknowledge a level of toxicity, he said this:Anarch Allegiere wrote:As for ROIAF being the most toxic community? Maybe.
"maybe" is not a confirmation.
Plus, Anarch added this:But it's also one of the few RP sims on which I've actually seen people play out unexpected defeat, and something I orchestrated myself rather recently (read: half a year ago): mass death scenes without anyone raging about it. Which for me will remain one of the most epic and most satisfying grand RP scenes I've ever witnessed.
It sounds rather like a flawless standard RP style to me, if you want my opinion....
Sasi wrote:Is it so difficult for you, Tantus, to admit that SL Gor is far to reach such a level of maturity in RP? Sorry, your hostility toward people who just expect to be able to play their role without all the shitty IC/OOC mixing and unrealistic IC non sense they faced in SL Gor, puzzles me a litle bit... Not to mention that obviously, you never RPed a storyline with these people... But you have an opinion about the substance of their RP....
Tantus wrote:The past theme on these forums may be summarized as:
This happens in Gor. This doesn't happen in ROIAF
Tantus wrote:When you need to compare ROIAF to the worst examples of Gor, it says nothing positive for GoT roleplayers.
You don't see people here complaining about Earth RP, because they visited a Days of O sim and encountered a mix of IC/OOC. And you don't hear comments on the flexi-GoT sims (they still exist). And yet these conversations on SL Gor always return to the least representative residents of Gorean RP.
If you routinely meet these characters in Gor, it's an issue with the choices you're making.
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