Tantus wrote:Now you both understand how to manage slave players, have fun doing it on your own sims.
But you already did.... and.... nothing really happened. Maybe it's time to accept slave-players are mature enough to decide what interests them and for many, it isn't what you're offering.
We already understood you were totally old fashioned when it came to Gor RP. I explained to you what kind of slave player this system that both Lacey and I support, we wanted to keep in a sim. Certainly not those who want to waste their time with the same boring slave exams, think SL Gor is a dating center to meet the dom of their dreams and are happy to RP chores, while calling you master / mistress in OOC talks. Yes, cookie cutters are definitely lost when told to take the control of their RP.
Tantus wrote:Except that, I was there and you weren't. So I would know how the raid unfolded but if you want to believe in a fabricated version of events then be my guest.
It's sounding like some bitter Arian related this tale to you upon their defeat and when it comes to your friends you're gullible to a fault. I respect your commitment to friendship but people who lie to you aren't your friends, they are using you.
For how many years were you on these forums insisting the players of ROIAF have no flaws, none at all, since Oor and Anarch filled your mind with a fantasy. I would like to see them take responsibility and apologize for misleading you and others on these forums, but really, you should take personal responsibility too and not believe everything everyone tells you as fact.
I was there as well, with 2 friends, following the raid with our cameras, and we were "wtf is that? Is our sim not supposed to be the city of Ar...?"
And I'm not putting the blame on your ex sim, Tantus... All the opposite. I put the blame on the owner of Ar who has been unable to create an environment where you could truly get the feeling of immersing your character in the most powerful city of Gor.
I never said the players of ROIAF had no flaws. But they're definitely people to whom you never need to explain how not to godmod, what is a NPC, how to write a decent emote.
And I already played in ROIAF, some years ago, before the sim close for a rebuild and re-organization, if my memory is good. And in other RP settings as well, urban or fantasy.
Tantus wrote:The Red Caste do not have a license on being armed, all men can be so when their situation allows for it. And when a man is armed, he should know how to use his weapon. This is common sense from a world like Gor, it doesn't introduce them into the ranks of the warriors as you suggest it. Each man plays his part in the defence of his Home Stone.
I have read the entire series of Gor books... I have yet to read the one, I suppose, where scribes and physicians wear a sword, are skilled at using it and behave like warriors and fight during raids, the way it's done in SL Gor.
Must be, because in the books, the art of mastering a sword is not part of their training.
Tantus wrote:Whilst you're patiently waiting for all of these elements to come together in SL Gor, the rest of everyone is getting along with the tools they have and making the best of it.
It's perfectly possible to bring these elements in SL Gor, actually... As for making the best of the tools the sims have to their disposal, I tend not to share your opinion on this point....
Also, you're the one who said he seldom played in SL Gor... Really, SL Gor does the best of the tools they have? I suspect it's not, neither, a "best" that suits your personal tastes.
It's more a case of players realizing the IC power on these political conflict sims, tends to transition from one Admin/Mod family to another. When the sim's direction is scripted and controlled OOC'ly, players rapidly lose interest.
When you have Admins/Mods, in roleplay, competing against others for political power, there will be conflicts of interest.
I'm not going to claim I remember entirely the course of these sims, but I don't recall Malignance as being active beyond its initial opening, the sim was rolling on life support for months before someone pulled the plug.
Malignance hit 40K traffic for a few months and almost each week-end, a popular event. The only event which has been a fail, was the flood... Which didn't surprise me, these "natural disaster" events are always a flop. But this sim has been successful for months, sorry. Oh, and I'm talking of the first Malignance, of course.
Else, I have been a co-sim owner and admins in some sims where I involved into politicall schemes. Must be that OOC position which led sometimes, to the defeat of my character, ending up in collar.
And people around me had no issue about losing neither. In Kaelus, I remembered Theoden, who played the Arian regent, speaking of what would follow in termes of intrigues, once the rebellion would have defeated the occupation because it was totally what he expected.
There are players who can perfectly accept a defeat, even when they are OOC admins. And yes, they are too, sim owners, admins, who can't stand the idea of losing... I experienced that (with male sim owners, always....).
Tantus wrote:I've been part of teams who carried politically charged scenarios for months, with my character's life literally on the line. I'd say I understand the challenges a little better than someone who barely managed it for weeks before collapse.
Talking of Ar and their laughable bouts of 'Political RP', weren't you on sims run by Cali and also Erwin?
I'd have more respect for your political campaigns if you travelled to Disneyland and picked a fight with Pluto, than roleplaying with those characters. Don't ever assume your involvement in ORS/Kaelus/Ars where you've been an admin/mod/or immediately part of admin run families, is anywhere close to how dangerously I roleplay with my characters.
When I was involved in sims it was at the expense of personal roleplay, I literally had no time to take slaves or companion. It's the commitment you give towards making a sim work.
The best political intrigues in which I was involved, lasted for months. I remember you in Tarnwald, barely leaving your room. And the incorrect descriptive you gave about political RP, the contemptous words you use to speak of this genre and the emphasis you put on the metered combat, make me wonder what kind of political RP you have been part of, at the end.
And yes, I was in sim run by these 2 individuals. The first one would perfectly illustrate the conflict of interest a sim owner can create when he gives himself a role that make his character even more powerful than the ubar and uses his influence as sim owner to get aways with actions that would put another in big troubles, His last sim had been a flop when once again, he acted like a freak control, causing a big active group to leave (was not playing there, but I knew the guy who led this group).
The second one was basically a lifestyler, claiming there was no IC, no OOC, just Gor, requiring slaves to give tours, and pushing his traffic in logging 15 bots during the night (+ the few animals which were constantly spread around the sim). I guess this sim ended up in a huge drama. I played there... Hmmm... 2 scenes and went back to another genre.
But you have people who claim that female sim owners are the pleague of SL Gor...
Tantus wrote:I did send this notice since it was required by the sim and I recall that some FW I'd never seen before, very randomly and very angrily raged in my IMs, We're talking paragraphs of rage here, I've no idea what her life's issues were but I highly doubt a single Notice had set her off to being so rude. By the end of it, I genuinely felt for her companion. When a person that dramatic leaves your sim, good fucking riddance. I should have sent that notice sooner.
But I told her it could be completed in just a couple of minutes, the NCs were very brief, there's no requirement for lengthy slave exams. The idea around NCs is, if there's a future dispute to the slave's ownership then we can play it out IC'ly. It gives people opportunities to attempt forgeries too and it all plays out smoother than people pulling imaginary papers out from their buttocks.
When spending 2 minutes on helping a sim facilitate some legal roleplay is too much for a player, then their departure isn't a loss. An enraged woman dragging her obedient companion and slave out from the city isn't losing a 'a group of people', to me it was a relief because I can tolerate rudeness without becoming upset, but someone that unstable would have eventually attacked others and that wouldn't have been nice.
I'm now not surprised to learn she was a friend of yours.
Actually, Tantus, no friend of mine yelled in your IMs and was rude to you. My friends, as I said, packed their shit and left. There was, I guess, one FW with us, 2 or 3 FM and a few slaves. None of them were companions. They come from Ko-ro-ba which had closed. My best friend (who played a FM, although she was a female typist), at this moment, decided to open... Kaelus. I myself ended my story in Tarnwald and joined her. I didn't IM you neither. In fact, I'm the one who was left behind because I needed to end my story there and continue it in Kaelus.
And this notice was pure crap (Is it your conception of political RP...?). You required slaves to get a slave exam. Slave exams are boring, they are useless, and unless they have a particular purpose or can be played with creativity, they can as well be FTB.
But you are so old fashioned, Tantus, laugh... It is always possible to play a dispute around a slave's ownership, no need for a slave papers on a NC and the boring registration. I played a lot with no NC. And same for people around me. Papers can be emoted. It's easy, you should try. Of course, you will always find people who will require a NC... As if the NC proved anything... It's so easy to cheat with that, you take an old one in your inventory, you erase the text, you put whatever you want.
But between mature players, not having a NC for some papers, contracts, is never a problem, believe my experience. The old Gor crap people, of course... But we're not forced to play with them, at the end.
When I'm being demeaning to male roleplayers, it's far worse than that
It's not metered combat, but variety which keeps men interested. A whole lot of sims hold a very narrow focus and expect to contain everyone within a single activity. It... doesn't last.
A whole bunch of Capua's gladiators were very actively roleplaying on the sim., perhaps 5-10 online in each Ludus at any given time. So you can denounce them as GE alts but they probably did more roleplaying on the sim than you did.
The city faltered when gladiators were no longer being paid over some political issues. My character probably became the wealthiest on the sim from his tournament wins, and these were perma-death fights for the loser. When his earnings were withheld he refused to risk his life further, it was fun playing a Gannicus themed character but good things come to an end so he bought out his freedom, retired out in the Italian hills with plenty of whores and wine, the best send off I've done to a character of mine as he had earned it. Whilst I can't speak for the specifics after I stopped roleplaying, I expect the loss of a gladiatorial scene had its repercussions upon the wider sim.
It seems the men on your sims were shy about roleplaying enslaved characters so they used alts to fill a tournament. Once in Gor we had a Ludus with some talented men playing fighting thralls. The FW who mistook them for submissive were the ones being violated indoors whilst others trained out in the yard.
I recall most of these gladiators sitting in the ludus and other actually very active at raiding in SL Gor
I tend to think that a minority were actually RPers. And Capua's traffic dropped after months. Sorry, but whatever the RP, it's always what happens to these sims with a focus on political RP. People start losing interest after some months. It's as if they had spent so much energy in their story that they ended exhausted, mentally exhausted and needed to cool down, to take a break. Sometimes, a direction taken by an ongoing storyline becomes the fuse.
And my character in Kaelus owned a fighting slave stables. The main character of some was definitely a male slave. In fact, I remember that I have been impressed when I started to recruit, by the number of men who were willing to play a slave. But I had guven a description of the role which was conform to the one given by the books. Men who were slave, not submissives, hating their collar. Kajirus (called Kajirus in the South whatever silk/labor/fighting slave, thralls for the Torvaldsland) are not submissive men, in the books.
The champion of Kaelus whose main character and avatar was an assassin, had specifically created this slave character because my notice where I mentioned I needed players who were skilled in metered combat (the tournaments were metered combats). Surprisingsly enough, he invested a lot of time in this char, and played it every day for hours. He has been part of the sim wide-storyline and played many 2 scenes with his former assassin main avatar. I guess I was not to bad at recruiting fighting slaves.
With the success of our tournaments, some men who played initially a free man, decided for the fun, to use an alt and participate.
Tantus wrote:Roleplaying on the streets isn't exciting but it's necessary, otherwise people meet nothing and no one they can interact with, then leave. When I've been involved in a sim, I'll leave my character parked somewhere close to the entrance. People have the option to stop and RP with him or not, and if someone emotes, I'll switch into SL and help them along. Does it help to encourage new people onto your sim? I believe it does, a steady stream of newcomers keeps the sim alive for all.
When I RP in the streets, it's mostly with slaves, the way FW are with them in the books. I pride myself at being rather creative, at involve them in my scenes as active and important part. I especially like to play this latent rivalry between slave girls and FW and noticed that my RP partners enjoyed it as well. When one of my characters is in the streets, it's not to help people along. I'm never the local guide (even if playing a slave). I have zero interest in playing these boring scenes with new people who shop for a new sim and limit the scene to a casual IC chat about the city, what to expect, what jobs, how nice are the other citizens and what they would expect to find there. Fucking boring. If you shop for a sim put an observer tag, watch the RP around you, stay in chat range with people who RP behing the walls.
Most visitors expect a warm IC welcome. It's ridiculous. Strangers are looked upon with suspicion in Gor. FW should know that they cannot expect the protection given by the home stone, as they don't share it with the locals. What was the last time I felt threatened while setting a foot for the first time in a foreign city...? I just don't remember. Usually, a kind slave all happy to serve a FW came kneel at my character's feet... But dare to enter as an assassin and even the local potter feel allowed to defy you instead of trying not to piss in his pants. Siiigh.
Tantus wrote:Whatever this new GoT sim is, I don't even need to see it to know they'll attract the same crowd of coolkids from ROIAF with their same issues. If I held any interest for loitering in skyboxes with entitled millennials, I would have done it years ago in ROIAF.
That will be terrible... Go figure: A RP environment where in OOC, you're not explained how to handle a slave, no whining about princess slaves, nobody considering you like a proud and honorable man of Gor, no rant against NPCs or these slaves who dare to have RP standards and velcro collars, no "heeeey, bros, we raid today???".
Yeah, that's lame...