Tantus wrote:You're a better person than I since you credit the standard SL Gor community with being roleplayers. I don't. I'm not that generous. The blend of Lifestyle, noobery, romancing and everything wrong with SL Gor happened from the beginning of BTB. Before then you could still find immersive roleplaying in GE.
Yeah sure. I can understand that view. The only remark I'd add to that then tho is that as a consequence, in my opinion, in SL Gor you can't avoid the 'others / non-RPers' because that is by default how SL Gor is setup. People can visit and start RPing on each other's sims without much of anything required, which is also what people do... As a role player and as an admin you'll constantly have 'encounters' with people that frankly make it hard to continue carrying a story that makes sense.
The majority of SL Gor are community sims, the same as you'll find across the grid in MC, civil war, urban and historic themed venues. Even GoT community sims exist, but I've never referenced them as the example of GoT roleplayers. Unless I was trolling a forum, why would I?
Sure, I get that too and yup, sure you're right about there being some lifestyler sims out there too. The biggest difference though, the actual RP sims don't have to deal with those lifestylers or community players, because they'd not be able to even get to the IC floor without getting booted or told to have an application vetted and approved.
Out of actual Roleplaying sims, fantasy, sci-fi, survival, urban, GoT and even Gor, they all experience largely the same issues. Granted, you won't have random lifestyle guys wandering in, demanding slave exams. But you will host a large proportion of players who's sole motivation is to find their IC soulmate, in any genre. No one confesses to seeking online companionship so they call it Longterm Storyline RP.
I don't disagree with that.
That is perhaps one of the issues you'll keep finding in any RP genre. There are many others:
- Cliques & OOC coordinating RP (up to the point it almost becomes meta gaming or making the RP of non-clique members pointless
- People avoiding negative consequences
- Drama when one side starts to realize they're on the losing end of a conflict
I'd almost describe those as issues which are somewhat 'hidden'. They're not issues which you'll instantly stumble upon or over when you start a few RP scenes in a place.
Gor however suffers from those as well AND then a whole bunch of other issues, maybe because there is a constant passing through of 'non-RPers' or 'community players' through Gor RP sims.
Issues which are very obvious and 'in your face' when you come across them:
- power emoting
- thought emoting
- post order shenanigans
For me personally... it causes me to instantly lose any desire or enjoyment from RP when I come across them. It's why I find it very difficult to RP in SL Gor whenever I tried again (a long while ago).
There are very few sims where the players took charge and by their own volition evolved the sim's lore, by their actions, drove the sim's story. Very few sims. And this is where I feel every setting should begin, by providing players with the background, tools and encouragement to carry a theme forwards. It shouldn't have to resort to a handful of admins writing the weekly events whilst the bulk of players float around online relationships.
Yeah sure. I understand that criticism quite well, but on the other hand... It's like hoping you'll get a pack of unicorns together. The people that actually push and create RP for others is a small minority, they're great for a RP sim and making everyone feel engaged and motivated to RP, but those kind of people are very rare.
If I was in SL and someone says:
This sim's players are evolving the story without admin involvement : "That's interesting, I'll take a look."
Yeah, of course that would be interesting... because it requires the stars to align and all these amazing RPers to suddenly hang out together. I would argue that in some cases people probably found that community of people whom they feel is scratching that itch for them the best they can possibly find a RP community.
One of my own personal 'complaints' whenever I'm RPing in any genre always is:
"Why isn't anyone else making anything happen or doing anything?"
But I do pose the question: Why does it matter if I'm pushing a storyline or new ideas in RP whether I'm just a player or an admin? Maybe it depends on the sim rules setup, but I don't really see the difference, even less when nobody actually (for certain) knows you're an admin or not.
Having the admins push a new story or setup or 'world situation' just seems like an incentive to me to make sure that:
A) At least the admins are doing the effort to make things happen and change things up (with it giving players opportunities to react or grow their characters)
B) the players are encouraged to do the same when they see others doing it too
But on to the future, with the advent of Animesh finally making NPC involvement possible, some genres will evolve to incorporate PvE elements too. Something I've always felt the scene was missing. Since the trouble with PvP and conflict roleplaying is, 5% of the players win, 95% lose.
In PvE, everyone can be a winner and work it into their character's roleplaying. And I think it would be fun to do a PvE raid with a small group of people roleplaying our way through it.
I actually pushed PvE encounters quite a bit in ROIAF.
Making people go fight a group of NPC bandits or the likes, rolling for the loot or other RP relevant items they might find. etc... so, no. I don't disagree there, those events were in my own eyes some of the most exciting experiences one could have, especially if there is the potential for deaths or having to choose between several 'lesser evils'.
Which is actually another issue I noticed in SL Gor, a lot of sims don't allow the use of NPCs. I use them a lot to push sensible storylines... but I suppose 'community players' or 'lifestylers' just can't wrap their head around the notion of NPCs, and even less the idea that NPCs might be a combat threat or such. *shrugs*