Tantus wrote:And I can affirm you wasted weeks of your time trying to negotiate a significant storyline with Lifestylers.
I recognized the culprits for what they were and wasted zero hours on Hochburg, despite having friends on this sim, people I like, but your eyes should be on who holds the influence before planning events with them.
I showed to you that we didn't have the same definition of what is a lifestyler. And these people were not. They never identified themselves, OOC, to their characters, in our OOC chats, they clearly separated the character from the typist. I RPed with Drusus, their ubar and sim owner, I chatted with him. You're confusing with another Hochburg.
Tantus wrote:I was under the impression this Nero was a friend of yours, how swiftly the poor guy's being dragged through the dirt. The Ar's generally chug along as dysfunctional sims after the initial month of hype, once the political roleplay fails to launch and every hope for the sim lays dead in the water, all that remains are personal relationships. Anyone in SL Gor would tell you this, it's only a sim with high standards to you.
Slave players aren't content with being NPC owned, even on sims with 'high standards' they want engaging themes with an IC owner. Practically every slave I encountered in Ar's markets were unowned. By your own account, you tend not to leave your home to roleplay with random people, it's beneath you or something, so you wouldn't know how these character's portray themselves.
Nero was not a friend of mine. I met him on some sim, we chatted, then when he decided to open a sim, he told me, we talked about his project. When he had not been satisfied with the work of his first builder, I helped him to contact Targus. Later, I helped for the rules, especially the NPC part that most people ignored anyway and I did some decoration. I didn't even follow what happened between him and the rest of his team, why he left, the dramas, etc.
Many slave players are just tired of the crap they are being given in city kennels. They are just not interested. Being able to start with a NPC owner is the best way to have a more interesting RP and of course, to meet a RP partner. And this without being bothered with some dude slaver who wants you to give a tour to visitors, to do boring chores and attend to classes which mix IC and OOC.
I never said I didn't leave my home to RP with random people. When I'm in a political storyline, I mostly RP at home, because guess what? You don't build schemes in the streets, where anyone can hear about your secret plans. And a house in a sim is not an OOC private residence. It's a RP area as well. In Tarnwald, I contacted people to get allies against my captor and even faced a public trial for a question of unpaid ransom (which I won as I gained the delay I needed, escaping a slavery sentence required by this captor). I tried, during this trial, to awake people's suspicions about his loyalty to Tarnwald. As much for your statement of me, rping only behind closed doors.
Also, I have friends who play a slave and one of my FW characters bought, once, a slave who was owned by a NPC. I don't understand why you imply this NPC ownership thing is such a big deal. It is not. And I'm tired of people who whine because "slaves can't get RP by themselves" but refuse the option of having a NPC owner. My system is just that: To allow slave players to remain in control of their role play, to RP what they enjoy and not the crap that someone else decide they should RP and where.
Tantus wrote:An alliance is an opportunity for players. By your definition it only works for those who use it and I agree 100%. Pro-active players who stand up and create roleplay will benefit from these tools, those who sit indoors and do nothing, won't.
As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...
Illyros? It was a concept. Whether it hosted roleplayers capable of creating intrigues and conflicts is another story.
I find it disrespectful to compare a lethargic sim of inactivity with those people who made an actual effort in building their political storylines. Absolutely anyone can pen down a concept, to action it is where the work begins.
As to opening a sim, I know I couldn't commit the time to it, you literally need 12 hours a day online to run it successfully. Probably most sims have closed due to a lack of engagement from their owner(s), it's not a mistake I would repeat. But on the sims I had joined, I participated in my own ways. Whether bringing Pye buckets of drama to moderate, or creating stories between sims, it all balances out.
Illyros was not a lethargic sim. Re-read what people who have been part of this sim told...
An alliance interests those who play a merchant, of course. It gives RP to some ambassadors, the local ubar and some warrior players who yawn behind their screen while standing around these people as escort. For the rest of your sim, you gain peaceful visitors who come friendly, certain to be safe because the cities are allies. And what you get is some tea party RP. It only becomes interesting when one of the involved cities betrays and ruisn the trade, causing a conflict, a war.
But alliances don't bring much interesting stories. I remember, long ago, the sim owners of Malignance, not happy because some houses had started to create alliances, which was definitely not the purpose in the lore and of course, killed the conflicts and belligerances which gave the city its real atmosphere of danger.
But in Gor, people are all into alliances, peace, trades... People like to claim Gor is a harsh world, but at the end they only blossom in safe environments with peaceful people.
Anyway, if you can't understand that a sim should be able to be self sufficient in terms of RP and stories, definitely, I can't help.
And if you opened a sim, Tantus, you would not do better than all other sim owners before you (and you don't need to be 12 hours active in order to own a sim. You just need a dedicated admin team and to trust them).
Tantus wrote:Thanks for the nostalgia Sasi, I'd almost forgotten how it was to raid a Lifestyle sim and have one of their moderators IM you:
"This raid is invalid because you're cheating"
"Hi, how am I cheating?"
"You know how you cheated"
"I do not. How did I cheat?"
"You are dual wielding and reset your meter"
"These are serious allegations affecting my Honour as a Gorean Man and Warrior. Do you have the logs of this reset and dual wielding"
"We don't need the logs, the Sirs on my sim are Honorable Men and they say you cheated. The raid is invalid."
This is literally the conversation I'm having with you, if you were moderating a dispute between myself and these 'guys', then they've reduced you to the status of these silly girls who attempted moderation on Lifestyle Sims.
I'm asking you for evidence and your only response is, "These sirs are honorable men, I don't need to see their logs." Out of courtesy to you, Sasi, I'm going to end this before your friends abandon you on some island of shame without recourse.
This isn't a strategy where you post rumours on a forum, I reject them as nonsense, then you return with logs as proof. It's not going to happen since I haven't done those things, they sound very uncharacteristic. My consent is out there to post private IMs of even a single instance of my "bragging". Between 'so many guys' and 'so much bragging' there must be something tangible. Maybe your friends have personal issues to address, they sound to me like those Lifestylers who cried foul every time their cute sensitivities were upset. I am not wrong in stating this is a case of women, gossiping with women.
I would never send a friend of mine onto a forum with some half baked rumour, without a single shred of evidence. Because I care about my friends. The only proof here is to the advice I've already given you, your friends use you, they abuse your trust in them. It's not nice to observe so I'm encouraging you to align yourself with genuine people who care about you.
You're becoming a little bit melo-dramatic, there... First, please, don't compare an immediate situation where logs can be provided easily and a situation which happened 5 years ago. Not all people keep the same PC for so long and when they change, saving the IMs is not an usual reflex.
Second, I said I thought it was plausible, because it's typically the male's reaction in SL Gor. Tossing a tantrum over some ban and thinking of some retaliation. Eh, see, you're not the only one, at expressing prejudices toward a gender...!I'm sometimes guilty of the same.
Basically, what I had been said after people of my friend circle, ex-Tarnwald members, saw your own comments about IC and OOC separation, was that you told something about bringing more clout to tarnwald and so, Tarnwald could use the IC trade alliance to isolate Sais.
That was not even a rumor, Tantus. Just people's impressions about what were your inner motivations. So, either they are wrong, they misunderstood you (and you have been loud about this last option), either, you expressed some satisfaction about this other consequence for Sais. And you told yourself in this discussion that you would have considered it as a bonus.
When I think of it, after all, it doesn't mean you did this trade alliance in this purpose only. But as I told you, you gave this impression that this trade became a tool you could as well use in order to piss Sais off. Such a big deal... Zen, Tantus, I'm not challenging your honor, lol! I merely used this little issue in our discussion about IC and OOC separation and to oppose your "trade alliance" RP to my conception of political RP... Hmm.. Sounds like I hit a nerve...
And in Tarnwald, for what I remember, the best storyline was one which happened within the city walls, with Tarnwald people and which allowed everyone to be part of it. An affluent citizen had plotted a coup d'etat in order to seize the power. The author didn't spare his efforts for involving as many people as possible.
Tantus wrote:Some RP sims take the approach of NPC'ing their ranked positions and I don't disagree with it.
The alternative is where characters are granted titles by application or friendship with the sim owner. These OOC decisions often lead to the promotion of inactive players, consequently they stunt ongoing storylines which affects the entire community. I've preferred the NPC approach at the beginning which can be filled by players who prove themselves through roleplaying.
All things being equal, the one with the drive and enthusiasm is the right person for the job, against the jaded old player who no longer makes an effort. But the latter person will often land the role because he's friends with the sim owner.
Another common scenario is where players begin in office and feel their only duty now is to sit at home and feel important, surrounded by their IC family and entourage of slave. These people are a waste of Sim FPS, utterly useless.
I don't dislike the NPC used for the positions of head of castes. But it's not always possible with some positions. It's hard for a NPC praetor to sentence an individual for some crime...
And it's not because a player has been given a position through an application that he cannot lose it throught role-play. It's the purpose of political RP, Tantus... Getting a better position, working at making your rivals fail in order to take their place.
Yes, in SL Gor, it often lead to dramas. Because most people don't know how to lose, are not much interested in playing this part, when the character lost, must face ordeals, the dishonor, the slavery, or the death. I played a this part a few times, it's intensive. But a FW is more exposed when she starts involving herself into schemes. Just, in SL Gor, most people don't consider the possibility of losing and the new RP opportunities it would bring. They want to win and win quickly.
Also, being put in ranked position doesn't mean neither that you should carry on your shoulders, all the responsibility of other people's RP. People should not rely exclusively on the ranked characters to give them RP. It's 50/50. It's a collaborative game.
Regarding those who mostly focus on family RP, we have similar opinions on this matter.
Tantus wrote:I'm not a fan of tattooed and pierced Gorean hipsters either. Obviously I blame women for aahing and cooing and encouraging these fashions in Gor RP!
Not all GoT sims have standards, other than ROIAF, you'll see the other GoT sims out there are akin to Gor's Lifestyle scene complete with flexi avatars.
In ORS, Kaelus and Illyros, we had a strict dress code. You would never see men covered with tattoos and piercings, nor flexi (flexi have often a high complexity, they cause lag).
And stop blaming women! Most hipsters you see are real young men who think that style is very hot and believe themselves to be super creative in indulging in one-upmanship. Women just want a well done avatar, all mesh, that looks hot.
And I didn't visit other GoT sims. Only ROIAF.
Tantus wrote:The fact that you only offer buzzwords and concepts is proof enough that Ar fails to deliver on actual substance. When I've seen the names filling these political houses and I know them to be useless, I have a fairly good idea of how Ar's political RPs have failed to deliver.
Who has ever managed to eliminate adversaries in Ar and influenced the election of an Ubar sympathetic to our cause? It was a defining moment for my character when he walked through the chambers of the city who'd once issued warrants for his execution, and now agreed to his terms of peace. That comes from roleplaying and not just speculating.
The people who roleplay in these Ars talk a good game, but they don't accomplish anything. I've never heard a story of succession from Ar which wasn't OOC'ly interfered with, until this one occasion where we roleplayed with them.
You expressed so vehemently your dislike of political RP, whatever in Gor or ROIAF, that honestly, I don't think you judge it with a real impartiality. Not to mention that you were never part of the intrigues played in these sims. You base your point on "names". But did you RP with these people? Not even. At least, when I criticize snowflakes and lame slavers, I can rely on my personal experience....