Tantus wrote:There was a time people asked, "what can I do for a sim."
Now people are all about, "what can a sim do for me."
Nope, that doesn't work this way. Players owe nothing to a sim, at the end. They have many where they can go if they are not happy in one.
Sim owners opens a sim first and before all, for their own fun, for experiencing their own vision of Gor, of role-play. But if they want their sim get RP, they need to attract a player base. The players can't play if they don't have a sim, but the RP sim cannot exist without the players. It's 50/50.
The players bring their RP and traffic, the sim owners have to bring a setting that will keep the players happy.
It works that way:
Sim owners: What can we do for keeping the players happy ?
Players: What can we do for keeping the sim alive.
Too many sim owners tend to forget this simple principle.
Tantus wrote:The actual war involved Hochburg, Laura and Northern mercenaries against Ar, there was no occupation of the city. The conflict lasted around 3 months with some seven skirmishes fought, each side took victories and losses. Factoring in for the additional sims who funded the war effort, there was a heavy emphasis on trades, treaties and diplomacy and less so on the raiding.
If the Arians(whom likely related this event to you) felt like they'd been taken over, it's a testament to the pressure put upon them, diplomatically and politically with their internal factions turned against one another.
Now whilst you may want to take a dig at the event, which 'political' roleplays have you ever managed involving multiple other sims. And now I'm interested, which 'political' roleplay have you done where you weren't an admin on the sim, roleplaying with your close friends.
The first raid which happened in this sim (I was a mod at that time), was only run by Laura. They entered by the gate, left by the gate, claimed that Ar was defeated. After, yes, some war had been structured. But I didn't last long in this sim after it started to welcome too many snowflakes. I finally left and went to play in another RP environment.
Also, I don't consider that involving multiple other sims is a factor of success. In SL, too many people spend a lot of time at trying to organize storylines involving many sims, instead of first, focusing on the storylines which could happen in their own sim and involve their sim members. Which most RP sims do, off-Gor....
Tantus wrote:Are you intentionally contradicting yourself here or expressing how little you understand of SL Gorean raids.
Nope nope... You have a good description of a raid in "Prize of Gor", book 27, on Ar. There is definitely a difference between a group of Tarsmen who come pick up some women, slaves or free, and a bunch of guys who enter by a gate, assault the city walls, down everyone and exit by the gate.
It's true that the way the cities are built in SL suck. There are no high bridges... With a friend, we had built a Ko-ro-ba, for a sim owner, in 2013 or 2012 with functional high bridges. Sadly, the chosen meter turned people off. But it was probably the closest representation of a Gorean city as described in the books.
Tantus wrote:The two are not mutually exclusive, every sim should have a variety for keeping their men engaged. And I say men, because women can roleplay, roleplay, roleplay with no break in between. I liken it to the situation where some women can talk endlessly and men generally don't. It translates into how frequently you can emote too.
I remember when groups of women would be in Group Chat, complaining about 'boys playing with their toys', and how a 'real man' would be sitting with his companion. With that attitude it's really no mystery why these women are single in RL and looking for meaningful companionship online.
And you're making a similar statement in pressing a divide between raiding and roleplaying. But I can tell you the experience is most potent when both are combined. Men who raid do find the time to roleplay too and their roleplaying is better because of it.
They are not mutually exclusive if you don't require your warriors to spend much of their time in the arena.
As for women in group chat, well, they probably whine less, but is the lovey dovey family RP a thing of the past? No, as you know. And a woman cannot play alone that mundane crap. So, there is still a bunch of men enjoying this kind of RP. And don't let me start about those men who look in SL Gor for a sub....... Tantus, men are not better than women, in SL Gor... Both may equally suck, whatever their role.
And yes, I agree, a raid is fun. But I prefer when it's done realistically. I remember, in one of the Ar sims, an outpost setting had been built in a skybox. The attackers had too conquish it. Some FW, companions, daughters of warriors or just bold women, came to the outpost. They were the loot.
Also, another issue, is the rescue... One hour after is a ridiculous delay.... Give no time for the captor to play with their captives. No wonder why so many players, those not playing a warrior, tend just to turn afk or lock themselves in their house when a raid starts.
But anyway, the real problem of metered battles in SL Gor, are those players who behave like teens... Often, it just takes one to ruin an entire raid.
Tantus wrote:However - for the sake of argument - let's look at your division of "political intrigues, conflicts, long term storylines" minus the "training and raiding'.
I've seen instances on these sims where men are roleplaying:
| Sloshes falarian wine around his gilded cup and with a sweep of his imperious hand, positions the Fourth Legion at the foothills of Venna. A further well executed sweep directs the Fifth Legion towards Rarn. His hand doth put the lives of legions on the balance. Men shall perish, few will return, but cities shall be conquered.|
Give it a few more days of this intriguing roleplay and then the penny drops. It's all a big fucking farce. There's no conflict but a map table, your greatest enemy is the little pair of dice rolling around it. There's no actual substance to this war but endless emoting of how great and important you all are. There's no enemy to challenge you, no danger coming back to you, nothing intriguing beyond an hour of seeing what this scene was about and it's certainly not longterm.
None of these sims are populated beyond the first month. I think you had a sim, Sasi, where you probably pressed your attitude that men shouldn't raid, spar or do what interests them. Fuck no. They should be sitting down with women entertaining your needs alone. And that's how you ended up with the only sim in the history of SL Gor overpopulated by bisexual thralls. I don't recall its name but you should have called it Tharna.
There was a game in one of the Ar sims, with a giant map, where the legatus moved the legions. They had fun apparently and used it for their RP. Yes, definitely, that war was only a background on which we based all our political intrigues. But still, it was fun (at the begining, until some people start metagaming and godmoding...).
And no, I had not such a sim. I co-owned a sim for 5/6 months, where one of our talented RPers (Theoden) had organized an incredible setting for a very well structured war, figuring the progression of the armies. Every Saturday, a big battle was organized, anyone was free to join and fight for a camp (it involved 4 sims). Metered combat. But well, at the end, some people caused problems. You have always SL Gor teens who don't like to lose or systematically break the rules, causing OOC conflicts. I didn't interfere in this organization, it was the work of Theoden (his idea) that he executed in partnership with admins of the partner sims. The "thrall" thing, as you say, was another issue, caused by an external factor and I certainly didn't cause it because I wanted men just sitting down with women (which I never encouraged, as I told you, I hate the dovey lovey family RP, courting, babies). It was a city, occupied by Ar, with a focus on political schemes, an Arian faction, a resistance faction (My greedy FW was rather serving Ar, spying for the Regent, trying to infiltrate the resistance, betraying her guardian, while making her fighting male slave, the champion of the arenas, quite miserable who was growing hating her and plotting to get free). Almost every Sunday, we had a fighting slave tournament (totally IC where everyone could emote, no OOC reward). Many men had a fighting slave alt just for these tournaments.
Tantus wrote:Those elitist GE sims back in the day went beyond setting standards, being a good paragraph-roleplayer wasn't enough to join them. Imagine a time where groups only accepted the top 5% of players who can 'fight' and make violent-emoting look like an artform. Then you're understanding how elitist some sims became.
I was only talking about the BTB sims. I raided for one season in a GE sim, that was raids, raids and raids against other sims. Fun for a time, after, I got tired. People RPed randomly, privately, else, they hanged up OOCly, laughing, joking, etc. I remember, around Christmas, some of us raided in pajama suit (unicorn, goat, frog themed...). I don't remember even one GE sim, at this time, which had these standards you cited.
And if you want an example of sim which definitely got the reputation of being an elitist one, it was Illyros. The sim didn't interact with other sims, you were required to fill a detailed application on the website, based on the model of those applications you have to fill if you wanted to join a sim such as ROIAF and prior to be allowed to play in the sim (what is commonly required in other RP environments). And your background had to be solid, realistic and really BTB. If you came with a character who had claimed a bunch of previous home stones, who was a FW having been free, then slave, then free, etc, if your char was a mamba, if he had been a member of several castes, if you were the offspring of a Torvi man and Tuchuk woman, etc etc, you were asked to re-write your background. Also, you had to prove you could type a well constructed emote.
In SL Gor, this sim (meterless) definitely got a quick reputation of being snob and elitist. Of course, it lasted only 2 months, Our player base was essentially made of players from ROIAF who didn't even share the same timezone.... Most people in SL Gor don't want to make any effort and are very attached to their non sense character, the same they play since years, who claimed many home stones, joined many castes and belong to a dovey lovey family made of different castes and home stones where each member is loyal to each other, love and peace.