Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

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Tantus
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Tantus » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:30 am

Oor wrote:Kudos to people like Tantus who manage to immerse regardless and get all these epic stories and wars out of it, but I think some effort to ground players in on-sim conflict, faction affairs, political and personal conflict and so on will do a lot more to keep people on sims than insisting that they just don't see the big picture and calling them locusts for continuing to seek out something more gripping.


I respect your tenacity too, in a genre where IC Leaders have a history of committing character-suicide. Was the tally at five consecutive suicides, before the sim required a reboot to fly away from that mess.

On the bright side, a fresh beginning opens opportunities for those lovely maidens seeking a dashing new lord. Given how poorly GoT roleplayers manage IC conflict, and how much of their day-to-day roleplay revolves around soap-opera scripts and relationships, I tend to see it as a Ken and Barbie sim.

Gor/BTB is better avoided, until certain elements have aligned to support storylines between sims.

The times I've committed myself to roleplaying in Gor are far between, like 2008-9, 2014, 2017. In between I've taken the occasional look without participating. As either there's only one dominant sim, or the active sims are filled with the sorts of people I could have no dealings with. I don't see myself returning to Gorean RP, as it would take 5 active sims, with people I can trust on one of those, to top my previous run. Where we managed to outmanoeuvre our foes, who had the good grace not to commit suicide under pressure.
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Tue May 01, 2018 8:27 am

Tantus wrote:I respect your tenacity too, in a genre where IC Leaders have a history of committing character-suicide. Was the tally at five consecutive suicides, before the sim required a reboot to fly away from that mess.


Three, but I take it as a win when I can get my IC opponents to commit suicide instead of trying to declare the RP invalid... and RP banning like they do in Gor at least...

The reboot was for entirely different reasons though. :P

On the bright side, a fresh beginning opens opportunities for those lovely maidens seeking a dashing new lord. Given how poorly GoT roleplayers manage IC conflict, and how much of their day-to-day roleplay revolves around soap-opera scripts and relationships, I tend to see it as a Ken and Barbie sim.


If that was the case I'd have left there a long time ago. They've got some good conflict. They got hookers, they got adventures, bandits and violence. A lot more RP events and story than anything I ever had the joy of experiencing in Gor. Tournaments and jousts, traveling to distant locations, etc. Sometimes the occasional grand warfare or more interpersonal conflict.

Sure, role players in general need to learn to get a bit better at conflict RP. But they have a pretty strong core of players there who handle it just great.

I don't really believe there is any RP sim in SL that comes close to the quality of writing, story, role play and conflict in ROIAF. It's pretty obvious that the sim has attracted all the best role players SL has to offer over the years, because everywhere else is pretty dire. Sometimes you have the occasional gorean sim owners who try to open a sim in competition, but they always end up exploding and closing after a two-three months with the same drama gorean sims do.

IF there was a better place without the usual drama people that keep hopping to new RP sims (and always end up banned everywhere), I'd be RPing there instead. There is no doubt about that.


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Last edited by Anarch Allegiere on Tue May 01, 2018 8:35 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Oor » Tue May 01, 2018 8:29 am

Tantus wrote:
Oor wrote:Kudos to people like Tantus who manage to immerse regardless and get all these epic stories and wars out of it, but I think some effort to ground players in on-sim conflict, faction affairs, political and personal conflict and so on will do a lot more to keep people on sims than insisting that they just don't see the big picture and calling them locusts for continuing to seek out something more gripping.


I respect your tenacity too, in a genre where IC Leaders have a history of committing character-suicide. Was the tally at five consecutive suicides, before the sim required a reboot to fly away from that mess.

On the bright side, a fresh beginning opens opportunities for those lovely maidens seeking a dashing new lord. Given how poorly GoT roleplayers manage IC conflict, and how much of their day-to-day roleplay revolves around soap-opera scripts and relationships, I tend to see it as a Ken and Barbie sim.

Gor/BTB is better avoided, until certain elements have aligned to support storylines between sims.

The times I've committed myself to roleplaying in Gor are far between, like 2008-9, 2014, 2017. In between I've taken the occasional look without participating. As either there's only one dominant sim, or the active sims are filled with the sorts of people I could have no dealings with. I don't see myself returning to Gorean RP, as it would take 5 active sims, with people I can trust on one of those, to top my previous run. Where we managed to outmanoeuvre our foes, who had the good grace not to commit suicide under pressure.


Wow, Tantus, you really got some beef with GoT huh, sugar?

Good luck with that.

Edit: You should try playing there. At best you find a new place to RP, at worst, you won'be this clueless when you slag the place. There's plenty of issues in every RP genre... but you nailed not a single one of those in GoT. Shame.
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Tantus » Tue May 01, 2018 2:24 pm

Anarch Allegiere wrote:Three, but I take it as a win when I can get my IC opponents to commit suicide instead of trying to declare the RP invalid... and RP banning like they do in Gor at least...

The reboot was for entirely different reasons though. :P


Correct me if I'm mistaken as I'm thinking back on past conversations here; There was the king who bailed when dice-rolls didn't go his way. The eventual Regent(?) and his Hand poisoned their characters together. The next IC leads drowned themselves at sea, and their successor was found to be metagaming to such an extent, the playerbase voted for a reboot as a direct consequence.

I don't see much of a difference between someone saying:
"Fuck this roleplay, I'm gonna kill my character and fuck everyone else."

And someone saying:
"Fuck this roleplay, I'm gonna RP Ban their sim and fuck everyone else."

In both scenarios someone has succumbed to the IC/OOC pressures and pulled out, leaving an entire sim in the lurch. With such an appalling record of succession there's nothing at all rational in claiming one side doesn't have IC/OOC issues, and the other does.

Anarch Allegiere wrote:If that was the case I'd have left there a long time ago. They've got some good conflict. They got hookers, they got adventures, bandits and violence. A lot more RP events and story than anything I ever had the joy of experiencing in Gor. Tournaments and jousts, traveling to distant locations, etc. Sometimes the occasional grand warfare or more interpersonal conflict.

Sure, role players in general need to learn to get a bit better at conflict RP. But they have a pretty strong core of players there who handle it just great.

I don't really believe there is any RP sim in SL that comes close to the quality of writing, story, role play and conflict in ROIAF. It's pretty obvious that the sim has attracted all the best role players SL has to offer over the years, because everywhere else is pretty dire. Sometimes you have the occasional gorean sim owners who try to open a sim in competition, but they always end up exploding and closing after a two-three months with the same drama gorean sims do.

IF there was a better place without the usual drama people that keep hopping to new RP sims (and always end up banned everywhere), I'd be RPing there instead. There is no doubt about that.


Everyone's welcome to glorify their favourite sim, but when someone is going to say, your playerbase are clowns, your standards are low, your dramatics are off the charts. Then someone will take a closer look at your venue too and point out the inconsistencies with any tales of unblemished brilliance.

I would enjoy a venue with higher standards, where no one crosses IC/OOC, no one metagames, everyone has deep and rich storylines woven into the very fabric of the sim! Where political and factional intrigue have real consequences... (And everything certain GoT players continually tout upon these forums!). The reality is you're still dealing with people and they're the weak link in any genre. When a sim is populated by AI, then it will become everything a fantastic sim needs to be and I will gladly roleplay with my drama-free robot bitches 8-)

ROIAF does have a higher level of emoting, I don't dispute that. It also suffers from intermittent drama, metagaming, population crashes and issues as with any other genre.


Oor wrote:Wow, Tantus, you really got some beef with GoT huh, sugar?

Good luck with that.

Edit: You should try playing there. At best you find a new place to RP, at worst, you won'be this clueless when you slag the place. There's plenty of issues in every RP genre... but you nailed not a single one of those in GoT. Shame.


Sadly I'm not surprised to see you reacting this way since you have a history of splurging ROIAFs praises all over a Gorean Roleplaying forum, then resorting to snide remarks and insults when your beliefs in the Great GoT are brought to question.

Actually I've nothing against GoT at all, have even considered roleplaying there were it not for the time commitment. But I don't see you as representative of ROIAF, as I have SL friends who've been involved with the sim since longer than you and they do have their heads screwed on. So that's an advantage too.

I'm happy to see you so enamoured with your choice of venue, it's a testament to those who've contributed years of effort to provide these options for you.
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Tue May 01, 2018 3:20 pm

Tantus wrote:
Anarch Allegiere wrote:Three, but I take it as a win when I can get my IC opponents to commit suicide instead of trying to declare the RP invalid... and RP banning like they do in Gor at least...

The reboot was for entirely different reasons though. :P


Correct me if I'm mistaken as I'm thinking back on past conversations here; There was the king who bailed when dice-rolls didn't go his way. The eventual Regent(?) and his Hand poisoned their characters together. The next IC leads drowned themselves at sea, and their successor was found to be metagaming to such an extent, the playerbase voted for a reboot as a direct consequence.

I don't see much of a difference between someone saying:
"Fuck this roleplay, I'm gonna kill my character and fuck everyone else."

And someone saying:
"Fuck this roleplay, I'm gonna RP Ban their sim and fuck everyone else."

In both scenarios someone has succumbed to the IC/OOC pressures and pulled out, leaving an entire sim in the lurch. With such an appalling record of succession there's nothing at all rational in claiming one side doesn't have IC/OOC issues, and the other does.


The biggest difference is that the story actually continues and whatever power vacuum they left behind gets absorbed by other players including their opponents. The difference is say, instead of "Ar" or whatever city RP-banning you, you actually get to RP conquering that city and continuing on.

It makes a big difference.

In a sense someone committing suicide is someone admitting their defeat and I'm not bothered if my RP opponents prefer to pull a Tommen IC over trying to make an OOC asshat out of themselves and stopping the rest of the story for everyone else.

Image

As for the reboot that was a culmination of things. In my eyes it was more because after 2,5-3 years of playing the same storyline people really just wanted something fresh. And tbh it's been amazing... 20-30k traffic, but all of that is in a purely IC skybox and people who are actually IC (instead of standing in their houses), so I've never seen a sim so lively and active with RP in all my years in SL.

Anarch Allegiere wrote:If that was the case I'd have left there a long time ago. They've got some good conflict. They got hookers, they got adventures, bandits and violence. A lot more RP events and story than anything I ever had the joy of experiencing in Gor. Tournaments and jousts, traveling to distant locations, etc. Sometimes the occasional grand warfare or more interpersonal conflict.

Sure, role players in general need to learn to get a bit better at conflict RP. But they have a pretty strong core of players there who handle it just great.

I don't really believe there is any RP sim in SL that comes close to the quality of writing, story, role play and conflict in ROIAF. It's pretty obvious that the sim has attracted all the best role players SL has to offer over the years, because everywhere else is pretty dire. Sometimes you have the occasional gorean sim owners who try to open a sim in competition, but they always end up exploding and closing after a two-three months with the same drama gorean sims do.

IF there was a better place without the usual drama people that keep hopping to new RP sims (and always end up banned everywhere), I'd be RPing there instead. There is no doubt about that.


Everyone's welcome to glorify their favourite sim, but when someone is going to say, your playerbase are clowns, your standards are low, your dramatics are off the charts. Then someone will take a closer look at your venue too and point out the inconsistencies with any tales of unblemished brilliance.

I would enjoy a venue with higher standards, where no one crosses IC/OOC, no one metagames, everyone has deep and rich storylines woven into the very fabric of the sim! Where political and factional intrigue have real consequences... (And everything certain GoT players continually tout upon these forums!). The reality is you're still dealing with people and they're the weak link in any genre. When a sim is populated by AI, then it will become everything a fantastic sim needs to be and I will gladly roleplay with my drama-free robot bitches 8-)

ROIAF does have a higher level of emoting, I don't dispute that. It also suffers from intermittent drama, metagaming, population crashes and issues as with any other genre.


Sure, there will still be people with the same sorts of attitudes, but overall when you have sim rules that crack down on meta-gaming and don't reward people for avoiding conflict or mixing IC/OOC it makes a huge difference.

The difference between a gorean RP sim and ROIAF in my eyes is just night and day. I can barely walk around in a gorean RP sim without being met by people breaking 100 RP etiquette rules and in the process frustrating me. Gorean sims don't even have any control over what kind of RPers play in their place, since there are usually no required applications and every horrible RPer with unrealistic snowflake characters can just visit your place and start RPing (read: ruining people's RP time). It's why when I RP in a gorean sim nowadays I tend to not even acknowledge 'visitors' from other sims when they're being the usual transexual panther / pirate free woman / poison slave / half-mamba Warrior with panther parents / cannibal / black caste with tattoos / Pani samourai / etc. - I know that seems like a shitty and elitist attitude to have, but I'm actually entirely the opposite of that, and I'm extremely inclusive when I feel my immersion isn't getting fucked and disrespected. In ROIAF I go out of my way to try RP with everyone I can, because I know the players will have gone through an application process and the admins already made sure there is no weird stuff in there that would make my eyes roll or make me cringe in the middle of a RP scene.

It helps when you're pretty much the only decent RP sim in a setting and can punish people for misbehavior, as opposed to in Gor where people will just hop to the next sim if they feel they're in trouble for misbehaving. In ROIAF the admins can be much harsher than they can be in Gor. In ROIAF there have been a number of people who got banned for breaking RP rules, only for them to crawl back a short while later trying to apologize and promising to do better. When is the last time that ever happened in Gor? In Gor everyone is just used to being a bellend and getting away with it, shaking their fists angrily from whatever new sim they're playing on next. Nobody ever has to admit they're shit RPers or broke RP rules (to others or themselves), which in turn somewhat encourages the bad behavior.

People can criticize ROIAF, it has it's flaws, but it still stands neck and shoulders above what a gorean RP sim with it's usual standard sim rules can offer. This probably sounds like bragging and blind appraisal, but in my eyes it's just absolute fact. I would be humble about the place, but I can''t be so humble up to the point I start ignoring the reality of the situation.

And sure, I'm posting this on a gorean forum. But ... I've been a longtime gorean RPer. I love the gorean genre and theme, I just wish there were gorean sims with the same standards and quality as RP sims of other genres in SL. I'd love to play on them. I'd role play there in a heartbeat.

But RPing in whatever shitty standard gorean sims peddle towards nowadays for traffic? No thank you. Not unless I can RP ban and ignore everyone who doesn't meet my pretty low standards of fairplay and immersion.
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Oor » Tue May 01, 2018 5:44 pm

Tantus wrote:
Oor wrote:Wow, Tantus, you really got some beef with GoT huh, sugar?

Good luck with that.

Edit: You should try playing there. At best you find a new place to RP, at worst, you won'be this clueless when you slag the place. There's plenty of issues in every RP genre... but you nailed not a single one of those in GoT. Shame.


Sadly I'm not surprised to see you reacting this way since you have a history of splurging ROIAFs praises all over a Gorean Roleplaying forum, then resorting to snide remarks and insults when your beliefs in the Great GoT are brought to question.

Actually I've nothing against GoT at all, have even considered roleplaying there were it not for the time commitment. But I don't see you as representative of ROIAF, as I have SL friends who've been involved with the sim since longer than you and they do have their heads screwed on. So that's an advantage too.

I'm happy to see you so enamoured with your choice of venue, it's a testament to those who've contributed years of effort to provide these options for you.


I've mentioned ROIAF a few times because that's where I play. I like some few of the posters here and wouldn't mind seeing them try it out. I don't know why that rustles your jimmies so bad.

Cute though, you telling me what to talk about on this forum, considering how little you've even role played in Gor. It's a forum about all aspects of Gorean Roleplay, including the negatives. Not a forum of talking nice words about Gorean Roleplaying lest you trigger Tantus.

Like it's nice of you, an intellectual, to come explaining what's what to me about not one but TWO genres in which you have admittedly less overall experience than I do, but very unnecessary.
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Sasi » Tue May 01, 2018 9:13 pm

I have been recently told, by a (Gor) sim owner, a woman, that most women, in Gor, would not talk to her, because in their mind, she had nothing to offer them and that it was, so, perfectly ok for these women to give their application to some male players. She added that she wanted to make it easy for these women in accepting they submit their application to these guys.

See, ROIF has possibly the issues that any RP sim encounter (the metagaming, the little dramas, the people who don't like to lose...). But I'm damn sure that in ROIAF your real gender is not an issue when you're an admin, that nobody will care if you have a reluctance toward the RL gender of an admin (and will invite you in this case to go fuck yourself and certainly not bend to your caprice). I have as well the belief that the IC/OOC separation will be enforced as a rule that is a basic in any serious role-play sim without anyone consider that enforcing this point of the RP etiquette is a form of oppression (I presume that in OOC chat, people don't address a guy who plays a noble, with the words Ser, Milord, etc...).

It's the difference between a real role play sim and the so many Gorean sims which are in fact, whatever their owners pretend, a lifestyle place for people to come - first and before all - experience their D/S fantasies, even the grossest ones, in a more exotic environment than a BDSM sim. And year after year, that bullshit lifestyle keeps away the most creative and serious RPers.
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Leah » Wed May 02, 2018 7:44 pm

Sasi wrote:I have been recently told, by a (Gor) sim owner, a woman, that most women, in Gor, would not talk to her, because in their mind, she had nothing to offer them and that it was, so, perfectly ok for these women to give their application to some male players. She added that she wanted to make it easy for these women in accepting they submit their application to these guys.

See, ROIF has possibly the issues that any RP sim encounter (the metagaming, the little dramas, the people who don't like to lose...). But I'm damn sure that in ROIAF your real gender is not an issue when you're an admin, that nobody will care if you have a reluctance toward the RL gender of an admin (and will invite you in this case to go fuck yourself and certainly not bend to your caprice). I have as well the belief that the IC/OOC separation will be enforced as a rule that is a basic in any serious role-play sim without anyone consider that enforcing this point of the RP etiquette is a form of oppression (I presume that in OOC chat, people don't address a guy who plays a noble, with the words Ser, Milord, etc...).

It's the difference between a real role play sim and the so many Gorean sims which are in fact, whatever their owners pretend, a lifestyle place for people to come - first and before all - experience their D/S fantasies, even the grossest ones, in a more exotic environment than a BDSM sim. And year after year, that bullshit lifestyle keeps away the most creative and serious RPers.


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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Fortunes Cookie » Thu May 03, 2018 1:57 am

I'm going to pull aside the Oz curtain here and say the Emperor has no fucking clothes. I spent YEARS and hundreds of thousands of lindens supporting and roleplaying in the Game of Thrones venue. ROIAF shares many of the same roleplaying base as the older Bandor GoT sims, and other non-affilated GoT sims that have run over the years. The same issues with alts and a limited pool of regular players exists there as well as in SL Gor.

I don't glorify one genre over the other because I see the same shitty behavior from people in both. Drama queens, owner/admin nepotism, temper tantrums, that shit is all the same regardless of the name of the sim. Yeah, GoT tends to attract better emoters, but that's because most of them don't allow or encourage metered combat, so the pew-pew subcommunity of GE tends to not bleed over, as it does with BTB sims. However, they do attract more special snowflakes and drama whores by sheer virtue of recruiting from the roleplaying community. There's also an even larger occurrence of cross-fucking for favors or just cross-fucking for fucking's sake.

Let's be frank here though, and stop measuring e-peens between Gor and GoT. You can find roleplaying just about anywhere. What you guys and gals really want, is structured roleplaying in a sim with like-minded people where there's a guaranteed audience for your story. That means an active sim. That means other folks that share your understanding and like of a given genre. That also means predefined stories that were fleshed out and developed in a fashion that can generally be understood as 'canon' with a common frame of reference for all involved. You all don't like it when someone else veers off the road map of what you know and understand. That's just human nature.

Someone earlier mentioned the best conflict RP is between players who already know each other and are comfortable being frenemies. That's very true and because we have an established sense of trust and understanding with people that we are comfortable with, while also the chances of drastic miscommunication are fewer. If you RP with a stranger, there's always that dancing on eggshells aspect or the chance for something to go wildly off the rails and cause offense. So I'm gonna agree that you should find and familiarize yourself with good players across any venue, but it is human nature to find the familiar and stick with it. So Goreans tend to play with Goreans, and Non-Goreans tend to roleplay with Non-Goreans, but there's enough of a cross-pollination as we see just from this thread alone, that it's really more accurate to say that we look for friends and acquaintances more when we seek out the meaningful RP.

The one thing I disagree with most of all though, is the accusation from Sasi that people RP in Gor because they want a thinly veiled D/S fetish environment. I like Gor because it reminds me of the older and no-longer-politically-correct pulp era of fantasy, from R.E. Howard's Conan and Kull, to E.R. Burrough's Tarzan and Barsoom. It's the throwback to the Harlequin Romance bodice-rippers of a rougher time period. Where Gor gets fucked up is the commonly held but mistaken sim belief that FW have an equal and meaningful role in sim activity, whereas it's pretty much established in the books that they're just waiting for a man to come along and 'tame' them. It's the difference between heroic roleplaying and telling a story. You've got a lot of FW players who want to be the heroes of their stories, not realizing they are the damsels, the prizes to be won within the setting. It's not about D/S, it's about understanding and misunderstanding the genre and setting.
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Re: Gor? Where are you? Tal? Anyone home?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu May 03, 2018 5:34 am

Fortunes Cookie wrote:I'm going to pull aside the Oz curtain here and say the Emperor has no fucking clothes. I spent YEARS and hundreds of thousands of lindens supporting and roleplaying in the Game of Thrones venue. ROIAF shares many of the same roleplaying base as the older Bandor GoT sims, and other non-affilated GoT sims that have run over the years. The same issues with alts and a limited pool of regular players exists there as well as in SL Gor.

I don't glorify one genre over the other because I see the same shitty behavior from people in both. Drama queens, owner/admin nepotism, temper tantrums, that shit is all the same regardless of the name of the sim.


It is outright delusional to claim that people's RP behavior and etiquette isn't 100x worse in SL Gor. The reason is quite simple: people are never held to any standards whatsoever. Players in Gor rarely have to deal with their bad RP etiquette being pointed out or corrected, and when it is, they just throw a tantrum and go to the next newest Gorean sim that will be open for a month or two. Like, I don't even want to entertain anyone who wants to claim the problems are just the same in every genre. It's a ridiculous statement that does not match my own experience in the slightest.

I mean, it's even just simple logic in itself:
- SL Gor sims don't expect anyone to fill out character applications on their sims, anyone can just visit and play. There is no oversight on what anyone is playing, eg. therefor you get all these half-mamba / half-torvalds Warriors who are also bakers, slavers and have a Pani sister.
- SL Gor sims don't expect anyone to adjust their character backgrounds to match the lore of the sim
- SL Gor sims don't usually even have any lore or past storyline for role players to hook into
- SL Gor sims tend to not acknowledge NPCs or NPC environments, and this isn't just limited to guards, but also to politics and just the realistic dynamic of a gorean society. (powerful political families or factions that would exist within a city: eg. The Initiate Caste)
- SL Gor rarely enforce cultural standards across their sim, they just let people RP whatever anti-canonical nonsense that comes to mind with little to no consequences. (Example again: you can just murder an initiate in the middle of your city and get away with it, when in reality that would've caused a shitstorm of IC consequences)
Another example would be the Warrior Codes, or understanding merchant law. (example: the codified and universal merchant law of Gor describes the right for any man to enslave a Free Woman from another city or tribe. Yet somehow 9 out of 10 'governments' in Gorean RP sims will start RPing that the man somehow committed a crime for doing it, broke his Warrior Codes (codes which also describe that this is a right for Warriors) or even worse declare that their city doesn't follow merchant law and has their own laws......)
- etc.

It's almost simple mathematics to add all that up and then to understand the respect for story, environment and role play in SL Gor is just much lower overall or frankly non-existant. And that is just the IC, lore, story and setting side of things. The absurd amount of people who don't even know RP basics in SL Gor is staggering, because nobody ever is expected to... thought insults, power-emoting, etc.

Let's be frank here though, and stop measuring e-peens between Gor and GoT.


The only reason I would stop 'measuring e-peens' is because it's not even much of a competition to begin with.

No reason to get defensive over Gor. I like the genre just as much as anyone else, but I at least want to acknowledge the entire bullshit and inadequate OOC setup one genre has. SL Gor is FULL with shitty RPers, and I'm not even talking about paragraph emote quality. I''m talking about RP etiquette: power emoting, thought insults, not respecting or understanding the genre they're playing in, mixing IC and OOC, inability to handle conflict RP in any mature or fairplay manner, RP limits, immortal characters, characters with ridiculous implausible backgrounds, etc.

I sometimes visit Gorean sims, and they only seem to be getting worse with all the issues mentioned above. If I can walk around in a gorean sim and find RP with 3 people of which 2 don't instantly give me a bloody headache because how they don't even understand the basics of RP, it would be a miracle.

You can find roleplaying just about anywhere. What you guys and gals really want, is structured roleplaying in a sim with like-minded people where there's a guaranteed audience for your story. That means an active sim. That means other folks that share your understanding and like of a given genre.


Sure and that pretty much doesn't exist in SL Gor for me right now, or for many others I imagine, despite me loving the gorean genre as a whole. SL Gor is practically unplayable for me.


The one thing I disagree with most of all though, is the accusation from Sasi that people RP in Gor because they want a thinly veiled D/S fetish environment.


You're reading that wrong. She isn't accusing every single person in Gor of doing that, just a big swath of people or roughly the majority. There are -many- SL Gor sims where the sim rules clearly explain that as a person playing a woman or slave character you're OOC less of a person and less of a role player, while throwing a bunch of absurd IC/OOC mixed rules on top of it.

Some of my buddies are usually admins in most of the high traffic gorean sims, and I've lost count of how many times some guys just instantly go: "Fuck you, I don't have to listen to a female moderator / admin or listen to your shitty sim rules."

The entitlement among the average gorean RPer is pretty great, up to the point they start crying when they're expected to fill out proper character applications to play on a sim or when they're reminded of the sim rules. There's plenty of man children around in SL Gor. And those man children often, due to the genre, have much greater (negative) influence on everyone's ongoing RP and storylines.


This is not about measuring e-peens, this is about acknowledging the truth, and I'll point out the rational nudity myself of anyone who tries to contest this reality.



As a side note, I'll acknowledge that ROIAF has other issues, but frankly i prefer those issues by a mile over what plagues Gor:
- People not often daring to take risk in RP
- People avoiding conflict RP
- Planning and plotting RP to get an IC edge on their opponents, cliques trying to stack the deck in their favor

The latter is an issue you won't see much in SL Gor, but mostly because most SL Gor players can't even get over their issues with basic RP etiquette or understanding the genre they're playing in. The only manner in which it manifests itself somewhat in SL Gor is when people create 'raid groups' and invite all the best meter combatants to their group to make sure no other sim even stands a fighting chance in the snorefest that is meter combat.

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