Slave player/character hating

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Sasi
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby Sasi » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:03 am

It's only in SL Gor that you are labelled an asshole elitist because you advocate for a strong IC and OOC separation and are not willing to tolerate a mix of both...
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DarbyDollinger
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby DarbyDollinger » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:15 am

Sasi, I noticed your attempt to be slippery by switching the word 'Miss' which is what we were talking about, and which is the word that's used in sims like the Velvet Thorn and the House of V for a person who isn't your owner, for the word 'Mistress' which is generally only used for people who are your owner. I didn't pick you up on it because I thought it might have been an honest mistake. I won't make that mistake again.
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Sasi
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby Sasi » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:40 am

Darby, I'm not a BDSM noob. And my references are not, neither, -Second Life- BDSM clubs. I know the BDSM protocol, perfectly. Unlike you.

Please, stop speaking of BDSM and be off-topic. We are talking of Gor RPers, randomly using IC titles in an OOC context. Oor has explained to you the differences between a BDSM SL club and a role play environment such as Gor. You should re-read her post, really.
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Qingwen
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby Qingwen » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:50 am

BlueConover wrote:
Qingwen wrote:
(long example of slavegirl mixing ooc / ic and such)

Sometimes, if very bad, I have muted such people. But then, slavegirl goes after the people I RP with, begging them to intervene so I will speak to her again. You can imagine how well that works out for everyone. I try to be kind, because, karma and all, but... dayum. I'm trying to enjoy my hobby here.

So these days, when I meet someone who has trouble distinguishing IC from OOC, I just run. Can you really blame me?

ps. Now, don't take this as judging kinky people. Most of my SL friends are kinky. They are also intelligent, adorable people, who never thrust their kinks on others uninvited.


My experience of walking into "awesome para rp btb sims" is I walk in on Blue Conover and every one ignores me. They either completely ignore all rp I offer up OR they never acknowledge my existence.

I have been told on an ooc level usually this is because, its me. Because people think im "just" a pew pew meter nobody because that is what they believe about me based on what they know of me.

So because this is my experience, I should just believe that is what happens in every para rp to every player right? and i shouldnt be blamed for acting like all para rpers are judgemental self absorbed assholes. right?

Well no. because these people only represent a small portion of the world.

Its not ok for the police to Racial profile.
So why is it ok for us to RP Profile or Kink Profile people?
:P


Well, as I believe I said, this wasn't a one time thing. I do tend to draw conclusions based on patterns that repeat themselves, and make decisions using this information.

And, racial profiling analogy - not going to go there. I'm just talking about the actions people voluntarily take in a game, kay? :)
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:38 am

Qingwen wrote:Well, as I believe I said, this wasn't a one time thing. I do tend to draw conclusions based on patterns that repeat themselves, and make decisions using this information.


Exactly.

Maybe there are some amazing lifestylers out there who demand slave-girls address them as Master in IMs or slave-girls who call guys 'Master' in IMs, whose role play might be amazing and enjoyable and who won't cause the RP to turn to shit because they don't separate IC and OOC...

... maybe, but I haven't met them in all the years I've been in SL Gor.

Usually you can RP absolutely nothing with them, because 9 out of 10 times they get offended at everything gorean.


Getting pissed at the people role playing their slave-girls because she RPed another dude, punishing them OOCly for it. Getting pissed when something bad happens to their character, they lose a fight, etc.


I fully understand that is generalizing, but not at all based on prejudice in my opinion. It's based on personal experience and that is quite alright. Even a donkey doesn't fall in the same hole twice.
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Caranda
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby Caranda » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:03 am

As a side note "Sir" isn't used on Gor in the same way as it is in Earth BDSM culture.

On Gor "Sir" is used by free persons as a polite or respectful form of address to free men or by a free man to someone of higher military rank.

It is never used by slaves to address a free man (for whom the correct form of address is of course "Master").

For example:

"Where are the platforms of Tenalion of Ar?" I asked a man. They had been his property.
The fellow pointed to the two hundreds.
"My thanks, Sir," said I. Tenalion is a well-known slaver.

(Beasts)

She then drew back angrily and smoothed down her garments. Then straightening herself, she cam regally to where I stood.
"My thanks, Sir," she said looking up at me."It is nothing," I said. "I am grateful," she said. "Perhaps you would care to join me at my table," I suggested. "There is little but sul porridge but I could order you a bowl," I said.

(Rogue)

"See!" said the second officer. "Look!"
"You are to be at your station!" shouted the captain.
"I submit, Sir," said the officer, "you should turn about."

(Slave Girl)

As for Miss, I can't recall one instance of a free woman being addressed on Gor as "Miss" as a Gorean form of address. The correct address for slaves to use for free women (including panthergirls) is "Mistress". The polite way for a free person to address a free woman, especially a free woman of high caste, is "Lady".

If a slave is addressing their owner then they can say "my Master" or "my Mistress" to emphasise that relationship. This is not uncommon in the books but most of the time slaves simply call their owner Master or Mistress.
It is regarded as right to enslave a natural slave
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Manon Seid
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby Manon Seid » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:07 am

Glaucon:

"Anarch Allegiere wrote:
And we didn't even touch upon the part yet where every gorean sim is claiming to be a BtB Role Play sim,..."

I've yet to meet any sim or role player that can clearly state they are By the books
everyone is IBTB
Inspired by the books


I think the key word in Anarchs post there was "Roleplay" sim.

In this discussion is not really relevant whether we are doing BTB or GE, the problem is likely the same in both genres, though probably more in BTB since Lifestylers rarely label themselves GE. And that's exactly it. The issue is with Lifestyler/Roleplay being confused.

And I agree Oor, if lifestylers would label their sims as such instead of insisting they are roleplay sims we would be rid of a lot of the incidences that gives rise to some of us objecting to being addressed IC in our OOC IMs without us consenting to it.

I can join the choir of people who has experienced the less ideal encounters with people doing the IC without consent in my IM often. At times it's more the general rule than an exception. The occasional opening IM greetings of "Tal panther" or "Slut!" I can live with but the overarching approach by people who does this kind of greeting to me in OOC is not ok.

Sasi's example with the free woman/slave player convo is damn familiar. So is Qingwen's example with the slave player convo. So is Oors examples with the the MasterDude1 and SlavePlayer1 exchange. It's not one off situations, this happens ALL THE TIME. In my humble experience anyway and clearly I am not the only one experiencing that kind of approach based on...well not even just the role played, at times its based on gender appearance in SL, sometimes even just a name. I have a laid back approach to these people and I usually don't even react to people treating me like that, I guess I got used to being called SLUT! ... but really...REALLY it's not ok.

This is not about being elitist. And I know there are people reacting to people giving that vibe here in this thread. And in general I agree, raging because of some inappropriate word in an IM is usually silly at best. But when you have been disrespected for years and years and years to such an extend you don't even react any more there will come a time when it's enough. You won't get away with just a nice "hey there, i'd appreciate you stay OOC in my IM". People will end up exploding in a giant "RAAWWWWRRRRRR!!!" it's not really strange is it? To me it makes perfectly sense that some of us start to sound a tad bit frustrated, elitist, hostile, better than thou, and either lashes back along the lines of "Tal, idiot" or just simply mutes and moves on. We have been patient for way too long.

Still I know for me there's a huge difference on how I come off in this discussion compared to how I deal with the issue in SL. As I said I rarely even react beyond shaking my head here behind the screen. I suspect it's the same with many of the other posters here and with the general population of SL Gor roleplayers. But perhaps it's time to protest instead of just letting it slide.

Label the SIM's appropriately, ask before you do that IC/OOC cross with me. And in ROLEPLAY sims treat all players as equals in OOC. This is all I ask - and there is a looooong way to get there.
Last edited by Manon Seid on Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ghost
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby Ghost » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:21 am

well fitting caps available for those wanting them

There is absolutely no doubt that being IM'd with "Tal Slut/girl/slave" can be irritating, can signify that the person doing the IM'ing is confused regarding the best way to start a random conversation, I am firmly in the roll my eyes and just reply (if I feel like replying) with a normal, non-confrontational, mood dependant response.

Being IM'd when you arrive on a sim, well that almost never happens at all in my experience, when it does I'm usually too stunned that the sim inhabitants have actually bothered to poke their heads out from behind their cosy walls to actually welcome anyone, the inappropriateness of the welcome is an easy fix. When it happens at The Hub, its easy to treat it with the same contempt or disinterest as any other cheesy chat up line.

Thin end of the wedge, and I get that it pisses people off to a degree because of the IC OOC mixology, I get that some individuals want to change the world in one mighty role-players of Gor epiphany. I also get that banging your head against a brick wall with a rant with in the confines of the forums helps alleviate some of the teeth gnashing annoyance that that thin end of a very fat wedge causes.

Mrs Miss or Ms, the ranting about Ms wasn't what changed the western world attitude towards women. So what are you doing to change the slavehating? bimboification full frontal lobotomy expectation of those IC/OOC confused? Does standing at the hub leashed to your RP partner help show a separation is not only possible but preferable? do the mini-rants on profiles really help? Do the ivory towers of hoop hurdling application swamped sims help? Explain to me how isolating yourself from the world ever taught the world anything about your personal philosophies.

This thread could focus more on how to show good RP etiquette to a wider Gor SL population, it could brainstorm ideas about how those more enlightened about IC/OOC separation might show by example good role play happening between characters of different stations. I believe, that the majority of people that fall into Gor (SL and other variants) do so more by accident than design, given that most people also learn by imitation, it is only natural that many IC/OOC mixed up assumptions are a learned habit and as a learned habit can be replaced by new learning and hopefully better habits, but better habits must be learned from some source, and some recidivists are always going to favour their current methods.. Hell anyone who ever encountered the "Kneel slut" guy that goes on year in year out hoping that his particularly cheesy domly lines will work, knows that not everyone read the memo on *the definition of insanity*

Ideas do percolate through a society, one day IC/OCC with all the super fine nuances will be the Gor norm, but not today and not before those who mix inappropriately (by which I mean with strangers out the blue) have been inspired by the opposing argument, rather than being battered around the pixel head by it.

When it comes to picking targets for change, for me the first target would be the dreadful schools of Gor, where the pedagogues of the puerile hold court.

Having played a slave in Gor who is 99.9% celibate and has been for years, who's typist also sees zero need for sex in her role play, I have been told often enough by people on this board, and in-world, that I should leave Gor . Asked why the hell am I playing in it? Don't pretend you, who refuse to play with the flexi haired or the non-ERP players are tolerant, that you don't let OOC thinking affect you IC, those ordinary people content with their minor roles are no more your cannon fodder than you are their furring fodder. We, myself included, are all biased to some degree in some direction.
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Oor
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby Oor » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:02 am

Ghost wrote:Thin end of the wedge, and I get that it pisses people off to a degree because of the IC OOC mixology, I get that some individuals want to change the world in one mighty role-players of Gor epiphany.


I think we're all a bit long in the tooth to be expecting any sort of epiphany like that, no?

Not that anyone's suggesting it's likely.

Ghost wrote:Mrs Miss or Ms, the ranting about Ms wasn't what changed the western world attitude towards women.


That's highly debatable. "Ms" was being posited as an alternative to "Miss" and "Mrs" as early as 1901 - a good 70 years before it came into anything that could be considered common use, and it was suggested because "Miss" and "Mrs" both identified a woman by the name of a man she "belonged" to, where "Ms" would be on a par with "Mr". A good argument could easily be made that every push for the use of "Ms", every objections to "Miss" or "Mrs", at least contributed to the achievement of women's equality.

Ghost wrote:Does standing at the hub leashed to your RP partner help show a separation is not only possible but preferable?


I don't care if a role player is in the HUB, in a BDSM club or sitting at home right next to their role play partner getting railed behind the screen. Couldn't care less. What happens away from RP sims, what people's preferences are when they're not IC on roleplay sims with rules about IC and OOC, is 100% none of my business. Nor anyone else's.

Ghost wrote:Explain to me how isolating yourself from the world ever taught the world anything about your personal philosophies.


I don't think anyone has said they want to teach the world about their personal philosophies. Just that they don't want to encounter IC/OOC mixing on sims that have rules against IC/OOC mixing. Just that they'd rather the people who inhabit role play sims follow the rules of those roleplay sims such that people attempting to play on those sims won't end up being smacked upside the head by lifestyler shit they don't want to put up with (and have attempted to actively avoid by joining a sim that is ostensibly about role play).

Ghost wrote:This thread could focus more on how to show good RP etiquette to a wider Gor SL population, it could brainstorm ideas about how those more enlightened about IC/OOC separation might show by example good role play happening between characters of different stations.


It could, if we could get over the idea that asking people to separate IC and OOC on roleplay sims where IC and OOC separation is expected per the rules is the heinous expectation of the elitist role play nazi.

But we can't. Instead we get OMG STOP RACIAL PROFILING, INSULTING THE GAYS AND BEING MEAN ABOUT BDSM.

What. The. Fuck.
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BlueConover
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Re: Slave player/character hating

Postby BlueConover » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:34 am

Oor wrote:
Well, as I believe I said, this wasn't a one time thing. I do tend to draw conclusions based on patterns that repeat themselves, and make decisions using this information.

And, racial profiling analogy - not going to go there. I'm just talking about the actions people voluntarily take in a game, kay? :)

It could, if we could get over the idea that asking people to separate IC and OOC on roleplay sims where IC and OOC separation is expected per the rules is the heinous expectation of the elitist role play nazi.

But we can't. Instead we get OMG STOP RACIAL PROFILING, INSULTING THE GAYS AND BEING MEAN ABOUT BDSM.

What. The. Fuck.[/quote]

BlueConover wrote:
Its not ok for the police to Racial profile.
So why is it ok for us to RP Profile or Kink Profile people?
:P


hmmnnn. Yup i said you were insulting gays and racial profiling?

No I said folks are rp profiling (being judgemental against people based on their preconceptions on somebody based on limited rp) and Kink profile ( See previous insert kink instead of rp)

please. Don't put words in my mouth.

The issue isnt your screaming to the heavens about ic / ooc seperation I shall state this YET AGAIN
its your Snobbish elitist superiority complex that is posted against people NOT DOING IT THE SAME AS YOU.
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