Snowflakes and Exceptions?

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Qingwen
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Qingwen » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:24 am

Oor wrote:
FeorieFrimon wrote:When I first started playing Feorie, she was uber special. She was a sterile free woman with mismatched eyes and bah blah blah.


My first "Oor" was just... omg. Cringe.

IIRC she was a Barbarian BORN ON A SUPER SECRET ISLAND WHERE ASSASSINS WERE BRED FROM KIDNAPPED HOMELESS PEOPLE, AND SHE WAS TAKEN TO GOR BECAUSE SHE WAS ALL STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMAN ROVING AROUND THE WORLD KILLING RICH AND POWERFUL MEN. And then she was free>slave>free>slave>free>slave etc etc.


My first Gor character was a Torvie-Pani hybrid who became a priestess of Odin and had a pet verr named Jonathon. :oops:
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DarbyDollinger
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby DarbyDollinger » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:02 am

Darby is exceptional in certain ways, but for the 10% of him that's exceptional, I make sure that 90% of him is a straight down the line slaver like one out of the books. That takes research but it's more honest and, I suspect, more rewarding than creating a lazy special snowflake Mamba/Torvie Healer-Torturer.

On the other hand, I don't see what's unreasonable about a slave ruling from behind the throne. It happened in real life, and I could easily see it happening in one of the books.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:03 am

DarbyDollinger wrote:On the other hand, I don't see what's unreasonable about a slave ruling from behind the throne. It happened in real life, and I could easily see it happening in one of the books.


One such occasion was very specifically mentioned in the books, Polemarkos of Cos, had such a high-slave which was nearly an Ubara. And allusion to others were made too, the 'spoiled' high-slaves of influential men in Ar etc.
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Sasi
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Sasi » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:03 am

For me, there are two types of exceptional characters, in SL Gor:

- The exceptional one, not usual in the books, but plausible, maybe, even described. It may be the high slave, or the man who is weak with his slave, or the man who betrayed his caste codes, the one who has no honor, a bred-passion slave, a FW who is a natural slave etc.

All these characters exist in the books. If they are played well, with creativity, if they have their strengths and weaknesses, they will be interesting. For me, they finally remain ordinary characters. They may be rare in the books, but they are ordinary in this context that they are still a part of the Gorean culture, that they still perfectly fit this environment. You never find they don't have their place in the Gorean world. So, yes, ordinary in their exceptionality.

Then, you have the second type... The snowflake... For example:

- The mamba woman who is a scribe in Ar, who has been slave, then FW, then slave again, then panther, whose companion is half Torvi / half tuchuk and who is a physician formerly a member of the clan of the Torturers.

- The usual albino exotic slave (although it makes no sense for slavers to breed slaves with a particularity which is more a disability and an inconvenient.

- The man whose character has been a slaver, then a scribe, then a commander, then a head slaver, then a ubar, then an administrator (each in a different city whose home stone he claimed his).

- The woman, formerly a barbarian, then panther girl, then FCed a scribe, became a scribe herself, then magistrate, ambassador, head scribe, advocate (never in the same city neither)

- The woman bred as an exotic (the exotic of exotics) but got raised by an assassin and his secret FC (and their extended family). The adopted mother raised her as a member of the green caste until she got tortured by a member of the clan of the torturers who ruined her hands, so, she had to stop being a physician and worked as a thief, even robbed a bank (damaged hands as everyone know, are not a problem when one has to get a fortune in stealing). Then, she companioned a ubar and continued her happy life as head of caste in some other cities for physicians, scribes, merchants, slavers...

- The FW with her high display slave adorned like a pleasure slave, treasured by her beloved mistress...

All these characters are commonly encountered in those so called BTB sims and most will pretend they have read the books. But sorry, they don't belong to a Gorean culture and environment.

In fact, when you try to play the average character of the books and deal ICLy with the oddities your character meets, it's you who is treated like a snowflake.

For example, I enjoy playing the typical FW of the books, the one who is cruel to slave girls, because she is inwardly jealous of them, because she secretly envies them (all reasons and motivation emoted in our posts of course). I stopped counting the number of times where another FW bitched at us for being unfair to slave girls (to whom the RP they give is always something exciting as serving tea and cakes and being congratuled because they are well trained). Yes, I'm the oddity, the snowflake, the FW who should be happy that slave girls exist because so, men have sex with them and leave my char to her frigidity...

In fact, finally, it's not that there are too many characters who should be exceptional, in SL Gor... It's rather that only a very few of their players will depict them in a way fitting the cultural environment in which they evolve and before all, will understand they are exceptional, not the average character. And that they picked up some exceptional character of which they made, at the end, a true joke (like a high slave owned by a female baker...)

These people claim their individuality, their creativity, their unique personality as if playing an average, normal character was not creative, that you couldn't depict an unique personality.

But It's to ordinary, average, normal characters that the extraordinary tends to happen....
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Tamar Luminos » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:59 pm

Heh. My very first Gor character was a barbarian slave sold to a holding in Torvoldsland. Then she escaped, became a panther girl, then enslaved again in Brundisium, then sold to a Slaver's House, then sold to a Tuchuk, then back to the Slaver's House, then escaped to be a panther girl again, then a FW in Ar, sister to the Ubar's FC, then back to being a panther girl, then FW in Laura, Turia, enslaved and sold in Ar, then slave in Turia.

All over the course of about 10 years. So yeah- LOL I think we all know this is the problem with playing a long-term character. We change sims, we change states/roles, we change companions and masters and castes...and somehow, people just accept it as part of roleplaying in SL Gor because we all do it.
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Glaucon
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Glaucon » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:23 pm

You might say it is a 'fine balance', between being tolerant and accepting of the individual character choices of a role-player on the one hand and drawing a line to keep out those annoying special snowflakes to preserve the RP environment.

But really, it is not. Because, typically, it isn't a problem of a fine line. There are people way over the line (the real snowflakes) and then there are those that are way too intolerant.

I think there are three general problems.

1. Yes, there are the over-the-top special snowflakes. They have been around in RP since forever. Those that will always want to RP a blind but super-hearing ninja prince(ss) assassin super-powered demon(ess) from outer space. You recognize them quickly. They go cry-baby quickly. They sort themselves out quickly, if you resist drama.

2. There are groups of players that want to do something that doesn't fit with the lore. And because they are a group (maybe even a very large one) and playing with each other, that makes it easy for this to become acceptable. This is something I only really saw in Gor. And with one group in particular. Femlaws (or whatever name you give them). With a clear reason: People wanted to play a female toon but also play a warrior/fighter. At first, that came with 'snowflake' excuses. But then that pretense was dropped. Screw the lore. Pretty Gor-specific, this one.

3. In RP, and in Gor, especially (as I recall), there is WAY TOO MUCH focus on weeding out snowflakes. Way too many preachers of 'true Gor' that whine about this or that person's background, something not being quite in accordance with the lore, as they saw it (often their own biased interpretation). SL Gor has always been full of such preachers, make it a bit sectarian cult-like. Sometimes they used to talk about the group above (femlaws), but mostly, they spend their time complaining about individuals that don't live up to their standard.
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Oor
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Oor » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:41 pm

Glaucon wrote:3. In RP, and in Gor, especially (as I recall), there is WAY TOO MUCH focus on weeding out snowflakes. Way too many preachers of 'true Gor' that whine about this or that person's background, something not being quite in accordance with the lore, as they saw it (often their own biased interpretation). SL Gor has always been full of such preachers, make it a bit sectarian cult-like. Sometimes they used to talk about the group above (femlaws), but mostly, they spend their time complaining about individuals that don't live up to their standard.


I think this becomes a big issue because if you express the same sort of outrage at someone saying "chicken" instead of "vulo" as you would at meeting someone with a completely non-realistic character/story, you're really diminishing our ability to have conversations about what seems plausible within the books' frameworks and what doesn't, in a way that matters to RP.
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Glaucon
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Glaucon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:47 pm

Yeah, to the chicken/vulo thing. It should not be a lore-quiz/completion, not should it be a game of "I made the most authentically robed FW, the most plain-jane looking kajira or the most low-caste character. It should not be a competition of 'not being a snowflake'.

Of course, if some people find it fun to play a character as realistically (by the lore) as possible, more power to them. But the tendency of people in Gor to be more focused on being lore-zealots than on actually having fun has always surprised me. Fighting for animal rights or against world poverty I can understand. Making gor 'pure' (again) as a mission in life I find more puzzling.
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Oor
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Oor » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:09 pm

Glaucon wrote:Yeah, to the chicken/vulo thing. It should not be a lore-quiz/completion, not should it be a game of "I made the most authentically robed FW, the most plain-jane looking kajira or the most low-caste character. It should not be a competition of 'not being a snowflake'.

Of course, if some people find it fun to play a character as realistically (by the lore) as possible, more power to them. But the tendency of people in Gor to be more focused on being lore-zealots than on actually having fun has always surprised me. Fighting for animal rights or against world poverty I can understand. Making gor 'pure' (again) as a mission in life I find more puzzling.


I think we'd probably be considered to be "lore purist" or similar at Illyros... but nobody is obliged to apply, so!

I like the environment looking good, plausible even, and I'm pretty anal about costuming. My current character is always dressed up and dripping gold, but when I play a pot girl, for example, she'll only wear what she's given. That way, getting bina, having her ears pierced, being allowed some marbles, whatever - these things have the sort of IC meaning they should have. And I kinda like it when everyone's on the same page so that my character jumping up and down because she was given some beads to tie around her wrist, or being distraught (or otherwise) because she's off to the leatherworker to have her ears pierced the next day, isn't given a weird look by another "low slave" who's all decked out in the latest rich-looking gear from C88 and Cosmopolitan (those are SL shopping events!). There's a lot of symbolism in Gor, a lot of ostensibly simple things like that,with dress, with which side of and how close to a man a slave kneels, bla bla bla, that mean something. And I really like that part of the genre. Because I'm a nerd.

So we're probably not on the same page there, but as far as studying and memorising all the flora and fauna...yeah. I don't care. Just please don't try and stick my arm back on with marigold oil.
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Glaucon
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Re: Snowflakes and Exceptions?

Postby Glaucon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:02 pm

Ah, I was worried we might actually be agreeing on something.

As far as I am concerned, I think it is cool if someone wants to adjust their storm-trooper armor just so that it really matches the lore, the movies, etc. Personally, I think it is less cool if they then start moaning publicly about another playing wearing a BLACK stormtrooper armor set, because those are "NOT IN THE MOVIES!" (@ SW nerd: I kid), when it really doesn't matter much. Being a bit anal is fine, but not everyone has to be.

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