1on1 VS Group RP

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serene mistwood
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby serene mistwood » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:18 pm

Sasi wrote:
Tantus wrote:
Yeah! There are those High Slaves who reportedly manipulate and host meetings for their owners. But to myself, this is as interesting as the next guy who comes along claiming to be a Great Warrior who's felled cities by himself. It's all bullshit. I'm not interested in how people want to be perceived, I want to see what they're capable of. I want to see what they've done and then I'll say, 'You, motherfucker are someone I can work with. Put on your rape-face and let's go subjugate some fucking cities.'



Why would it be uninteresting? Because it doesn't fit your basic idea of what a slave should be? But such a situation is -by the books- described in the books. It's not about how to be perceived. It's about a character, a role, a situation and how you character will react to it.


The funny thing is that in the books, a city will likely display their slaves, their beauty in order to impress important visitors.. But we are in SL Gor, where slaves are expected to remain unnoticed, in the decor... In SL Gor, let's display FW. Are they not, despite the books do not support this point, even made ambassadors?

Tantus wrote:So I am particular about timings and won't appreciate some random element who won't be a productive part of that meeting, e.g. a slave using 20 minutes to roleplay passively about herself.

If she were actively included in the scene, given the chance of being noticed not just because she serves drinks, she would not be role playing passively about herself...

Tantus wrote: But in my roleplaying experience, your average slave character behaves in very predictable ways and doesn't want to push herself beyond her envelope.


.


I remember a few years ago, back in the days of Tyros, Rovere and Vonda wars, my then characters owner was a City First Sword and attended IC Scarlet Caste High Council meetings on various sims regarding the ongoing battles and war. He used to take me IC, precisely as Sasi explains, to display his slave, to impress, to make other men jealous. A common Gorean trait in the books. He would actively include me in the meeting RP and not just to RP serving drinks. The practicalities of RP'ing a war cabinet of sorts were not exclusive to the other RP'ers present as Tantus suggests in this instance.

Sure, some of the slaves I came across were the "cerulean blue orbs sweep around the room as she shivers in anticipation" bots we all know and cringe over. Serving a paga was their lifeblood. And good for them. Whatever floats your boat. You like cleaning sandals - go to it. Post order conventions weren't so ingrained back then, for better or worse, and most people just skimmed over the common drink serve posts.

But I remember one particular Warrior whom got tired of my owners boasting and excessive pride in his slave at one of these meetings.. as I was so intelligent and beautiful (in my owners swagger) - would I not be the perfect operative to tease out information from an important ambassador under the influence of hot kalda and a hot tongue around his cock? My owner had to RP the quandry of possibly losing his slave if suspicions were aroused or the plot leaked, he was possessive and didn't really want to share me, etc etc... Or he would be the hero of the hour if war treaty intelligence were gleaned. It resulted in some fantastic RP for everyone involved - I was eventually IC taken by the jealous Warrior by tarn over the Tyros walls.

I guess my point to Tantus is please don't tar everyone with the same brush and give people a chance, whatever their character, by being more inclusive, at least intially. You may find a bot lifestyle kind of slave, you may find the best RP'er to ever cross your path. How will you ever know if you dismiss them before you even give them a chance?
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Qingwen
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Qingwen » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:16 pm

Tantus wrote:
In most other instances the writing is irrelevant, the participants are irrelevant. My character is pushing forwards scenes which will come to fruition over the days/weeks ahead and have consequences for other players. That too is entertaining in its own way, even if the emoting wasn't exactly thrilling.


So, possibly more snappy dialogue than description? Fair enough. I once watched a RP gun fight scene on an urban sim that lasted 4 hours. Or rather that was when I finally gave up. They may still be going for all I know!

Tantus wrote:So about that 'scene', I guess we're thinking of different situations. "Good ol'Gorean roleplay" to me, is when a man can focus his RP and attention on a slave, without city politics and IC duties in the way. It's not a bad deal for either of them.

Maybe you are seeing that level of personal roleplay as being less than him involving the same slave, whilst he was at the height of his official duties. But then she'd not have gotten the same depth of undivided RP.


No need for undivided attention; I just want to be part of the story, especially big city-wide ones like wars and treaties and whatnot. Bring on the city politics and IC duties and anything else that makes your character who he is. They are not in the way at all. It's your call to send slavegirl away to play with her mop or keep her with you as these things unfold and see what happens.
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Qingwen
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Qingwen » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:25 pm

serene mistwood wrote:I remember a few years ago, back in the days of Tyros, Rovere and Vonda wars, my then characters owner was a City First Sword and attended IC Scarlet Caste High Council meetings on various sims regarding the ongoing battles and war. He used to take me IC, precisely as Sasi explains, to display his slave, to impress, to make other men jealous. A common Gorean trait in the books. He would actively include me in the meeting RP and not just to RP serving drinks. The practicalities of RP'ing a war cabinet of sorts were not exclusive to the other RP'ers present as Tantus suggests in this instance.

Sure, some of the slaves I came across were the "cerulean blue orbs sweep around the room as she shivers in anticipation" bots we all know and cringe over. Serving a paga was their lifeblood. And good for them. Whatever floats your boat. You like cleaning sandals - go to it. Post order conventions weren't so ingrained back then, for better or worse, and most people just skimmed over the common drink serve posts.

But I remember one particular Warrior whom got tired of my owners boasting and excessive pride in his slave at one of these meetings.. as I was so intelligent and beautiful (in my owners swagger) - would I not be the perfect operative to tease out information from an important ambassador under the influence of hot kalda and a hot tongue around his cock? My owner had to RP the quandry of possibly losing his slave if suspicions were aroused or the plot leaked, he was possessive and didn't really want to share me, etc etc... Or he would be the hero of the hour if war treaty intelligence were gleaned. It resulted in some fantastic RP for everyone involved - I was eventually IC taken by the jealous Warrior by tarn over the Tyros walls.

I guess my point to Tantus is please don't tar everyone with the same brush and give people a chance, whatever their character, by being more inclusive, at least intially. You may find a bot lifestyle kind of slave, you may find the best RP'er to ever cross your path. How will you ever know if you dismiss them before you even give them a chance?


:D

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Oor
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Oor » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:24 pm

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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Leah » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:49 pm

Y'all are making me miss SL Gor.

gdi, stop please.
This isn't fucking Survivor. We aren't a tribe.

If I won't put up with an in-character owner trying to control my OOC life, what makes you think I'll put up with you trying to do that?

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Sasi
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Sasi » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:39 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:
Example:
"Yes, Master," her voice was filled with humiliation as she, once high caste, crawled over to pick up the whip between her teeth.

I could just as easily write out that same line into a long paragraph of 5 to 10 lines if I felt like it. It all depends on how fast people want the scene to move forward, whether you want to add new hooks or twists, etc.



That would be probably my choice of emote if there were more than me and my usual RP partner involved in the scene. But if just he and I, I will probably be more descriptive for her emotions, the way she moves, etc etc.


And yes, definitely, the NPCs, especially in places where pretending they are empty (a tavern, an inn....) makes no sense.

And what Selene said... Exactly.
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Glaucon
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Glaucon » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:28 am

Sasi wrote:Glaucon, you had yet to convince me how I can express the humiliation that my slave character, formerly a FW of high red caste and and high station, feels in some situations... In 2 lines of dialog with 2 or 3 words of facial expression, sorry, but I don't know how to express, when she is given a command, which is truly demeaning, how she experiences humiliation, how she struggles (or is she troubled?) why she feels that way, how she performs the command, why she perform the command instead of rebelling, the way she performs it (properly, badly, horribly, perfectly, etc). There are also the motions of her body, the way her face betrays her emotions at complying to her owner's instructions, etc etc...


There are many ways to express those things while staying away from directly describing thoughts, feelings, inner monologue, subjective perceptions, etc. It is quite possible for characters not described or RP-ed that way to convey a sense of depth, emotion. You can have a story in which there is only one protagonists (say, told first person) where you get full disclosure on what they feel etc. but about any of the other characters, and yet, those other characters can still have plenty of depth, and you can know what they feel, what they go through, etc. Even if all that isn't RP-ed or described, directly. There are many ways to get something across.

And, of course, some players may not WANT to share any of the things you mentioned. Players do not need to make the others in a scene privy to what their character is feeling, thinking, how it relates to his or her background or anything like that. Sometimes it can be fun for others not to know, more fun if the other players are left guessing. Some players chose to only RP things the other characters might observe. Not that I am against conveying anything the other player would not know ICly, but it is a valid choice not to. And if they play things that way, it doesn't mean that their characters are more 'superficial' or anything like that. At some point, the other players might discover what was going on 'inside the head' of that character, as the RP progresses. Or not. All good.

And related (but not the same, but more para-debate relevant), more or less narrative, descriptions of subjective perceptions or not, more or less dialogue, thought emoting or not, lots of adjectives or not... the question of how much text is needed to convey something interesting is a different one. I'd go with 'less' compared to what most long-form RP-ers seem to think is needed or desirable.
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Glaucon » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:40 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:THAT SAID

The one line shotgun RPers (we find everywhere) are still shitty RPers, often just because they're newbies, not because there is something inherently wrong with one-lining, but because those people usually do it because they don't understand what post order is, or try to make sure everyone gets involved in the RP.

To me it feels like one of those cases where you must first learn to walk before you can run. First people must learn to type longer descriptive emotes and learn to involve and acknowledge everyone in the scene, and once they're more comfortable with that, only after that they should get so brave to try and go shorter.


While that is silly, there is some sense to it.

The problem with most very short form RP-ers in SL is that, largely, they haven't really learned (or bothered to learn) to RP. Many are clueless about stuff like meta-gaming, IC/OOC, all that, haven't gotten used to emoting (as opposed to just typing something they want to say). And when you do para-RP, you will learn those things, typically. So, yes, in that sense, it would be helpful if most of those newbe (or noob) RP-ers were to 'go to school' and learned to para, because in doing so, they would also learn how to be better (at least somewhat descriptive) RP-ers in general.

Of course, it is very silly too. Because it is not the long form they need to learn. They just need to learn to RP. And if they want to do good short-form RP, they can learn to do that without having to learn to do good long-form RP. It is like saying someone needs to learn to play classical music of a sheet, before they attempt to play pop, jazz or rock. Sure, might not hurt if they did. But certainly not required. And really silly and unproductive to expect it of them if they have no interest in classical music.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:26 pm

Glaucon wrote:
Anarch Allegiere wrote:THAT SAID

The one line shotgun RPers (we find everywhere) are still shitty RPers, often just because they're newbies, not because there is something inherently wrong with one-lining, but because those people usually do it because they don't understand what post order is, or try to make sure everyone gets involved in the RP.

To me it feels like one of those cases where you must first learn to walk before you can run. First people must learn to type longer descriptive emotes and learn to involve and acknowledge everyone in the scene, and once they're more comfortable with that, only after that they should get so brave to try and go shorter.


*snip*.


I'd say 'really good' role play skills require someone being able to adapt.

Sometimes longer descriptive emotes are really necessary to describe a setting and a scene or what is going on at that moment (because visuals can never convey everything, despite SL being very visually enhanced I still find that I need to describe a lot of things) and at other times it's more proper to emote short and fast.

I'm not sure I'm the right target to have this argument with though, I might be a pariah in the sense that I -can- and often do write very long paragraphs, but in that I want to go shorter and am willing to dare typing shorter emotes even among the communities that have embraced long paragraph emote at all circumstances and times. I might even organize events in such communities where I suggest people to try and keep emotes short (if it would make sense for the setting / large group scenes etc).
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Re: 1on1 VS Group RP

Postby Oor » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:00 pm

Glaucon wrote:There are many ways to express those things while staying away from directly describing thoughts, feelings, inner monologue, subjective perceptions, etc. It is quite possible for characters not described or RP-ed that way to convey a sense of depth, emotion. You can have a story in which there is only one protagonists (say, told first person) where you get full disclosure on what they feel etc. but about any of the other characters, and yet, those other characters can still have plenty of depth, and you can know what they feel, what they go through, etc. Even if all that isn't RP-ed or described, directly. There are many ways to get something across.


You didn't address her main point here, and her main contention (I think) to your shortposting advocacy, which was about brevity. Even if you stick to what can be sensed (seen, heard, felt, yadda yadda) - which I probably do in about 90% of my RP - you can still require a lot of wordcount to convey what you want to. If anything, it is easier (and shorter) to "tell" (she said, humiliated) than to "show" (she said, and the drawing down of her brows over reddening cheeks was only glimpsed as she lowered her head).

I do agree with you about not including things that can't be known - I like a little Sherlock in my RP, I like not knowing everything and I dislike chasing info IC that I already know OOC because it was posted as narrative. But this choice is stylistic. It's a matter of preference, and I know you hate that but there really is nothing objectively wrong with either style. I've met people who RP a lot of inner monologue and emotion whose RP I love, despite my stated preferences.
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