The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

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Qingwen
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Qingwen » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:26 pm

Tantus wrote:Gor is absolutely upon its last legs.


That is my impression too. I'm beginning to think it applies to SL roleplay in general, as I've not found anything in recent months that isn't either a thinly-disguised OOC chatroom or something insanely complicated with meter, dice, notecards, currencies, levelling up, approval processes and micromanaging - and is about as much fun as filing my taxes. I don't know when the simple fun of playing a character disappeared from RP sim objectives. It's really hard to do in either of these extremes.
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Oor
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Oor » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:34 pm

Tantus wrote:I've already declared myself ignorant of ROIAF's history from never having roleplayed there


I would have essentially aid this in more words, so I think we'll leave it at that, really.
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Lacey
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Lacey » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:12 pm

The thing that stands out in Gor is that most the good players are ran out. I've had few interest in other genres but being creative was not something people tried to get people banned from a sim for. I am not even talking about the fight over what may or may not be BTB or plausible. Even in GE, any story that comes about that is played for longer than four hours is ripped to shreds.

I took what I am figuring is an annual vacation from second life and Gor but this one is lasting a lot longer. I am usually back after Christmas. I have sort of stepped in to see that no one on my list is active anymore (or anyone I could remember who they were anyway) and it is the same for any avatar I've acquired over the years.

I actually did peek into what I recall is Svago. I was on my kajira character, who I admit needs a new AO. Per the OOC rules she should have been picked up at the cages by a slaver. A warrior come for her and I went with it because I thought he was going to "deliver" her or something. Anywho, it ended up being the same old crap. Someone who wanted to type in my IMs about how hot my avatar was. Moments later I was supposed to be in a scene for yet another slave exam where I would be babysat while he went shopping with his girlfriend. I had to go to bed though. A few more logins and I am uninterested in even attempting a slave character.

I was supposed to go to the same sim with a friend but someone already caused some issues before we could even get there really. I suppose a lot of drama surrounds her. She probably would be good at game of thrones since everyone calls her "power hungry" in Gor. I am pretty sure that at some point Gor was set up to be a "role play your way up or role play your way to the greatest thief" or something like that. I guess the old model of everyone filling in a role based on who is whose friend was really just masked over though. I do not find anyone else who would want to actually role play anything at the capacity she does. Things happen and there is always something to do.

The only other person of interest within this year was a male avatar who I ended up going around to different sims with while we struggled to find a place with a decent build and story. We only ever found one sim that was a good build on it. He didn't like that the sim was a spin off from Port Kar and was ran ICly by pirates. Soon after that, we both got really busy in real life and I haven't seen him since.

Gor might actually be dead now. People might be tired of beating dead horses. I cannot even find something suitable to do in normal second life either. Come play Elvenar with me guys!
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Tantus
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Tantus » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:35 pm

Qingwen wrote:That is my impression too. I'm beginning to think it applies to SL roleplay in general, as I've not found anything in recent months that isn't either a thinly-disguised OOC chatroom or something insanely complicated with meter, dice, notecards, currencies, levelling up, approval processes and micromanaging - and is about as much fun as filing my taxes. I don't know when the simple fun of playing a character disappeared from RP sim objectives. It's really hard to do in either of these extremes.


I would Thumbs Up your post if these forums allowed for it! It's just how SL roleplaying has become, people think it needs to be complicated to be credible. I'd rather just find a sim where you can drop in and roleplay some without the hand-holding.

Once I looked around at RP'ing outside of SL, and it seems most of that happens on Anime forums! Good ol'fashioned SL roleplay is history now.


@Lacey - Slave roleplay is the toughest to go for. Make a she-urt instead, all the benefits of being a slave without the medicals. And then you get to skip town when the RP falters.
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Tantus » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Sasi wrote:I think it speaks volumes about the reputation of Gor RPers when you find in the rules of a roman or fantasy themed RP sim, mentions such as "This is not Gor, blah blah...."

And in SL Gor, the concepts of IC / OOC separation and OOC equality are still foreign ones... As well as the understanding of the cultural basics...

Not to mention the shitty 2009 themed builds...


I can appreciate the irony here with the Roman sims, most of them are still trying to emulate Dyce and Syndel's Capua. Easily one of the best RP experiences SL will ever see (100 avatars on sim, 30 of them fighting in the stadium - Unbeatable.) Over 90% of the population were Gorean roleplayers.

We've been through this IC/OOC thing before, those who consider themselves Lifestyle-Goreans aren't roleplayers. So applying roleplaying standards to them isn't a discussion, it's irrelevant. And if I was going to help these people, I think they have 100 other issues in their lives to fix before we even come to that talk of separating IC, from OOC.


So if we're discussing IC / OOC separation among actual roleplayers, you will be surprised at how many do cross the line, even without realising it.

Am I still separating when I say, This Is My Life, My Time, I Will Only Roleplay What And With Whom I Want To. There are people who consider themselves competent roleplayers and they enter sims with exactly this attitude.


On my past couple of ventures into Gor, I only intended to RP a retired scribe character with the occasional M/s roleplay. Now I could have hidden him indoors and roleplayed exclusively with the people I wanted(As seems to be the fashion these days). But I do my best to separate my character's progress from my OOC wants. So if he desires M/s roleplay, I'll have him out in town until he finds a slave.

So along his pursuits of keeping to himself and trying to live the quiet life, he became involved in major conflicts which were not of his design. OOC'ly I didn't want these events, I just wanted to kick back and RP some Gorean M/s. But through the hours of roleplaying in town... people initiate roleplay with you and... things happen . So I was responsible for one lengthy war and later, a coup, but these roleplays were pushed onto me and my character responded. By the end of it all I didn't get to roleplay a single M/s scene. Everything else happened, but that. It's probably the most laughable aspect of my latest roleplaying venture.

I came to the point where I wonder if I've been a positive influence or otherwise. It's an actual conundrum to face when you are affecting the course of sims and the lives of their citizens. When dozens of people have their roleplays turned upside down because of you, then how much responsibility do you have towards them? Change causes friction and people are OOC'ly raged on because of you. And are those sims better in the end, or worse. I could have let slights go unanswered and so held the peace upon every occasion. But it's Gor, IC'ly my character stayed true to his principles. OOC'ly, I regret having ended the roleplays of the people I did, I don't even dislike them and would rather they were still roleplaying in the places they were.

Maybe it is better to sit in a tower with your clique, pretending at being influential, roleplaying your little storm in a teacup and remaining blissfully irrelevant. Then there are no casualties, nothing goes out of your control, you never have to face real IC situations and the consequences of all the people you fucked over in course of defending your character.
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Sasi
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Sasi » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:11 pm

The roman themed sims existed between Dyce and Syndel's Capua, though. And the warning I mentioned can be found in Fantasy themed sims.

Also, regarding the IC and OOC separation, it's still in SL-Gor that this notion is the most ignored. It's in SL-Gor where people identify themselves to their character. They don't play a character, they are their character. In fact, the word "character" is almost never used. And not just about that, the consideration they give you depends of the role you play. If you play a slave, you are likely considered like a second class SL resident. I don't know of another RP environment in SL where you will be addressed OOCly with your IC title or status... I have short patience when a guy calls me "girl" in IMs and the slave players who address OOCly those who play a free with title such as master or mistress piss me off as well, since in doing this, they carry on the OOC discriminations... I don't know, but in ROIAF, I won't IM some guy with "Lord" or "Ser" and I don't think it happens a lot from other players...

But if you ask these people of SL Gor if they are lifestylers, they will reply no.....

Regarding the kind of role play you can get in Gor, these days, tell me how you can properly play a slave girl and get a realistic Gorean cultural immersion, where most of those who play a FW ignore some simple basics. I'm just tired of seeing so many FW with heavy eye makeup, loose hair, dresses which hug their curves (in the books, their shapes would be described with words such as "slave curves"), no veil or sheer veil, etc... (and I'm not speaking of those whose character effectively flirts with the collar and who try to be enslaved). Not to mention the men who lust for FW, have love stories with them and ignore or despise the kajirae, just good for chores...

The slave girl role is meaningless in this environment (and I won't pretend that slave rpers are all creative, many are just cookie cutters who are mostly interested in finding the right OOC dom and who don't separate IC and OOC).

And when you play a FW and points out ICly these non senses, you are the one who is treated like the oddity. So, the cultural immersion is lost as well.
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Tantus » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:31 pm

I think you're visiting some shady Gorean sims, I haven't encountered the 'I am my character' types on the sims I've roleplayed on. So if you're at some sub-standard BTB sim, and you're harassed by creepers, it's as much news as those tourists who drove into a Brazilian favela last week and were shot at. No one really cares, they should have had the sense not to be there. And on those same sims it's no surprise you're meeting Free women with liberal views on Gor.

As to the challenges of the slave-role, the expectation that 'Free characters' should accommodate slaves into their roleplay is something that I would call a Lifestyle attitude. Why should anyone be expected to babysit slave-characters? But you're welcome to lead by example with a Free man/woman character, round up all the slaves you like and roleplay with them all day.
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Sasi » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:45 am

Tantus, it's not some shadows sims... Read the group chats, read people's profiles... In SL Gor, most people speak of themselves not in terms of role-players, but as if they were their character. They introduce themselves as warriors, slaves, free women, etc. I never saw a role play environment where people so much suck at distancing themselves from their characters....

Also, you didn't understand my previous comment. I never expected that free characters should accomodate slaves into their role play as I appreciate that they don't come ruin a scene I'm playing with another slave to send my character serve visitors potentially new sim members to the local inn.

All that I expect is that these people respect the whole Gorean culture, where FW don't display their curves, features and hair, where men lust after slave girls, show deference to FW but consider them as rather useless in terms of pleasure, where FW don't befriend kajirae but hate them, are jealous of them and where slaves fear FW like hell. What you see in the Gorean books, chapter after chapter.

Because yes, the slave role becomes meaningless when it happens (and it happens everywhere, in every sim). Unlike you enjoy playing a waitress in the background of some scene. And it happens in the most populated sims....
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Lacey
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Lacey » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm

I'm not sure if Tantus was referring to my comment. I didn't expect the physician to babysit me. What I was content with was waiting on a slaver on the sim to come to the cage like the OOC rules stated I should do. It was that or a NPC owner - which I was not content with because I don't know anyone that still plays anymore. It just sounds lonely to have NPC owner who would go away anyway in favor of, yet again "you must go through the slave house" rule. Whenever someone started a role play with me then I expected that person to have wanted to role play with me. I expected that if that person wanted to go shop then they would IM me and say, "Hey I have other stuff to do in SL. Catch ya later." Not drag my character off to an infirmary, remove someone else from whatever they were doing, and demand a slave exam for my character while the person was off shopping.

I am not even sure if the type of character really matters in my point anyway. It is the same stuff and a different day. Everything is so generic. The only place I know where a she urte would be welcomed is Port Kar. I'm not sure how the role play is for them. I've not really ever been into the odd characters such as she - urtes or panthers. I probably should give it a chance, I guess.

Sasi exaggerates a bit on the lifestyler issue but not by much. It is still a problem whenever people label themselves role player but they are more of a group of people using the books to dictate their behaviors. They expect things of people based off what role they are portraying and they do not understand whenever that is not what occurs. The bigger issue today, at least in my opinion is not these people though. The issue is lack of role play in general. There is no need to worry about becoming a waitress as a slave because the dudes will just take you to their house instead. There is a lot of OOC chatter, something I'm not a fan of when I'm in a scene. Gives me stage fright. Even more though is a lot of standing around and IMing. Everything is done by OOC means or if it is "IC" then it is some complicated process that is not ideal for an "online when you feel like it" environment, like waiting on the carefully OOC selected head of caste or whatever to login to have a meeting. Too bad if that person OOCly doesn't like you.

As far as people who get the attitude that they are only going to role play with a select few, I'm not sure they are so very wrong to begin with. If I were to be mean or have a conflict with another in role play then nine times out of ten they are going to get pissy OOC. I'd rather avoid all of that these days. I don't have time for it. I really would rather just walk away from a five week story than deal with the drama that is attached to it. If someone doesn't want to play with me then that is fine. It won't be enjoyable anymore if they are not entertained enough to want to play with me. I actively avoid playing with people I have not been around for at least a few weeks. Sure, I'll say hey and have small talk role play with them but conflict is reserved for people who I think will have a less likely chance to get pissed and walk off. I like grouping, it makes for different things that can be played and two or three groups can come together to create something else too.

Besides, personality wise I don't really like big groups. I have a few friends that I allow in my home. Everyone else is an acquaintance. I don't even know all the names to my coworkers and we are not even a big company. It takes me a bit of getting to know someone before I'm all talkative with them. People make me tired a lot. They are a lot of work. Sometimes the phone rings and I'm instantly annoyed even though I haven't had a phone conversation in a month. Beings we are on a game that is based on writing stories that take a lot time (usually), I can guess that most people that play in Gor are introverted as well. Playing in second life is usually an individual activity that takes hours.
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Cassie
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Re: The Annual "Gor Sims" Update!

Postby Cassie » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:27 pm

It's not like we have to ignore loose hair and sheer veils but the fact that roleplay requires other people means you have to ignore a times some minor details. Clothes in SL are hardly made specific to Gor and if they are generally they try to accentuate the body because guess what... the customers make the rules. Who the fuck is going to buy your burkas? Rpers? How many really will put ugly for the greater good when a nice covered dress will do and suit more than a RP session. Clothes can be expensive.
How often I've looked for some nice outlaw female clothes that looked rough and barely shaped in vain!? I think Azuchi is the only store that comes around in decent or PFC which doesn't work fast enough either.

The social aspect of RP requires some realization that being involved in a community and have fun to bend slightly over without getting ass fucked and accept that the heels on the woman's boots on that FW is not the end of the world. That demanding people to know the Gorean calendar or portray realistic medical attributes is just bonkers.

The slave character is for me insanely hard because the good players are those women mostly who actually constantly push the envelope to roleplay something unique. The awful thing is they get called snowflakes for minor aspects such as simply portraying a different mind set but sticking to your role you are labeled another cookie cutter. :loOsEr: Can't win.
A few stand out in the crow balancing these two forces, personally I enjoy the slave role when my motive is to actually just to walk around and chat in IM'S with friends.

Though I personally don't either don't see as many lifestylers or people crossing into their RL needs with me as much, perhaps my profile dissuades but then again I am RP bored and enjoy this forum for my SL needs.
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