Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

This forum is for General topics not otherwise covered in other forums.
User avatar
Oor
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:33 pm
SL Name: Oor Breen
Home Stone: ROIAF: GoT RP

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Oor » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:30 pm

Tantus wrote:I've brought Anarch and Oor around to accepting ROIAF had its flaws too, so there's no reason you cannot learn too.



You won't find a single instance of Anarch or myself stating that ROIAF was perfect. Repeating bullshit ad nauseam doesn't make any less bullshit.
I call my vagina "New Yorker cartoon" because it's dry and a handful of people have laughed at it.

Flix
Tantus
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:55 am
SL Name: Inactive
Caste: Scribe

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Tantus » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:36 pm

Sasi wrote:No, Hochburg was not a lifestyle sim. Not -this- Hochburg. It had been opened by a little bunch of ex-Trevians, ex-Clearchus, and I had never seen these people enforce any kind of lifestyle.
I know nothing about the GE players they would have taken in their raids (I didn't play in Hochburg). I remember, during the war Kaelus/Hochburg, that some Hoch allies caused troubles. Kaelus was winning and troubles just increased. We dealt with a lot of immature people. Nothing unusual in SL Gor, after all.

I'm not getting what you mean with these IC appointments and I prefer people who can rage without being a boy about it. You always find an agreement with people "girl-ragging", they don't put their big ego in the middle of the discussion.


I shouldn't need to repeat our differing methods in spotting Lifestyle sims, you base your judgement on a Notecard, I look at the people involved. When I saw Lifestylers in Hochburg's admin group I knew that sim had zero-potential.

'IC Appointments' being, when characters need to meet with yours for IC reasons. I preferred not to do things through IMs, NPC messengers or notecards so roleplaying becomes mandatory.

Sasi wrote:That would be the case in a perfect SL Gor. But actually, warriors of SL Gor, like most SL Gor men, spend more time courting a FW they will FC, then fuck as if she was a slave....


I'll concede it's a concern when I've had sexier ERP with FW, than slaves. But I'm not a fan of the SL Gor family model, with a companion and two slaves. Once I tried keeping two bisexual slaves in the same house(and I'll not explain why!). Total, total disaster. That's not to blame 'slaves', when you roleplay with strangers things don't always go to plan.

SLife is simpler with a single RP partner, which gives FW the edge in utility.

Tantus wrote:I think I never really played in sims that were more lifestyle than your Thentis from 2010, actually. I don't count the bunch of sims I randomly visited with friends, where we were looking for a decent place.


If you were staying at Thentis we didn't meet then, maybe you were there before Pye bought the sim and transitioned it towards roleplaying. Earlier that year we learned SL Gor wasn't ready for a Paragraph-roleplayer only sim, although we had a solid base of RPers like Pye, Sazzy, Bear, Torments and Herpes! City of Victoria didn't take off, later in 2009 we moved to Thentis with a view to combining roleplay styles.

Sasi wrote:I remember, the second Ar opened by cali, was high traffic, allowed slave players to pick the role they wanted, with a NPC owner. There was not endless train of slaves arriving each week.

In fact, you have to choose what kind of slave players you want in your sim. Mature people, able to take care of their RP, their story who don't need to be "babysitted", or the opposite, the noobs, the cookie cutters and other doormats who are lost if not told what to RP?

My very -liberal- system leads to a somewhat natural selection..... When conservative, far-right kennels welcome every slave player they are be able to control and who are willing to worship their lame slavers as well.

Jasmine, with its 60K traffic for months, was probably the busiest sim that has ever existed in SL Gor. And still, it closed. As Anarch explained, you always need to keep people interested with something big, new and exciting. Problem: Your admins spent a lot of time and energy on this issue, sometimes at the expense of their own RP and stories. After months, some will face a burn out, lose their motivation, etc. And players go seek excitment elsewhere, their own motivation and interest having vanished as well.


Here's the thing, if Lifestyle sims are taking the less capable slave-players, then it's better for everyone. And if they need some kennel system to manage these slaves, it's their business.

By taking your favoured Arian model and applying it to Lifestyle sims, won't work. They're a different crowd of people with unique needs.

All admins do burn out, it's why I fully support the 3 months model. It's better for the players too, as being into heavy RP beyond that period cannot be healthy. And I think players would be more inclined to take outlandish risks with their characters when a finite end is in sight.

The mistake practically everyone makes is thinking their sims will go on forever.

Sasi wrote:As I said, you were not so discret about your secret agenda. And don't ask me the logs. Be serious, it was in 2013... As for trade alliances RP, they tend to be boring. I like people who focus their RP efforts in the sim they joined, who RP with the people of this sim, create stories in this sim, instead of bringing their RP and traffic to other places. There is seldom thrilling stories to expect from these trade alliances RP, too, especially when these alliances are respected......


I've searched some old Tarnwald logs and what I found was, we started the alliance roleplay in early January 2013, and Sais RP banned us at the month's end. I really didn't recall them being a factor, the alliance was about roleplaying with an old friend of mine. Sais being excluded was just a bonus, I'd never roleplay to such an extent for Sais alone :)

Roleplaying is what you make of it, thrilling, boring, entertaining.... how do you think I knew who the lifestyle and hopelessly lazy people were? Because I travelled to cities, roleplayed with their ranks, and got to learn who was productive and who would only ever amount to a slave-coddler online.

When-it-goes-well investing RP time in other cities benefits your sim too, when they return to roleplay on your sims and an exchange of RP happens between characters other than yourself. Now six people are roleplaying in the market from something you've started and it continues to snowball.


Sasi wrote:Oh, so, I misunderstood you. I guess you told in a previous post that your char became the wealthiest one in Capua (or my memory sucks, I didn't get my dose of caffeine yet). I figured it had happened after a series of IC events where you would had passed throught different levels of the town's hierachy in order to raise in society, plotting schemes, making the right alliances, etc etc.
You are prompt to criticize the political RP genre, Tantus, but at the end, have you ever RP such a story...?


'Probably' the wealthiest, in terms of the sim's currency I can't imagine anyone exceeded his IC earnings . As to those who roll wealthy characters, that's just lazy roleplaying.

I wouldn't mind roleplaying in a bonafide political RP sim, it's just that when I see the general crowd of people settled on them, it's an immediate turn off. And I haven't been wrong about it, there hasn't been such a sim where I regretted my absence.

As to starting out as a regular character who rose through the ranks, made the right alliances, etc. It was how I roleplayed at this Laura Outpost. Even my house was at the town's edge where I'd not be approached, fitting for a reclusive scribe living privately. But before long he was forced to participate in city life, take charge of the Caste and make political appointments to keep ahead of Ar, since his life was literally at stake. Maybe some day I'll explain the extent of political roleplaying with Ar(where we influenced their administration) and in Hochburg(Where we stoked an uprising over several weeks, supported the civil war that overthrew their government and planted an Ubar sympathetic to our cause.). I can summarize it here, but they took weeks, and weeks, and weeks of roleplaying to achieve.

I don't criticise political roleplay, it's those groups commonly involved with the theme who give it a dubious name. Since so much of their roleplaying is based around cliques, OOC friends and nepotism. I prefer political roleplaying where I have no control, when I must interact with outside sims who're naturally biased against us, but we overcome those challenges too with finely tuned diplomacy.

Sasi wrote:Tantus, have you often met, in SL Gor, IC families whose all members shared the same home stone, all offspring claimed their father's caste, whatever men or women? People who can keep the same home stone and caste for their character, over years when they refuse to create a new char? You know like me that people whose character have parents from different cultures are very common in SL Gor. And it's BS. I remember even having visited Southern cities in SL Gor, where you could meet more Torvie natives than in Torvi sims. For a period, especially after the release of Swordmen, several sims were invaded by Pani. Not to mention those people follow a non sense course in the Gorean Campus, then, register their Tuchuk char as scribe in a city... Just the average population of SL Gor. Because they don't really get the cultural aspect of Gor. They RP a Gorean character with a Earth mentality.


I don't dispute it, I also raised these concerns years ago.

Sasi wrote:Also, you said in a previous post:
Tantus wrote:So we don't disagree on the dire state of SL Gor, but I do object to throwing all Gorean Roleplayers into that Lifestyle bracket.

But you keep arguing that I only joined lifestyle sims, label "lifestyle" a sim like Khalida... On one hand, you deny that most people in SL Gor have difficulties at distancing themselves from their character and embrace Gorean values in OOC (even if they are not real life lifestylers), and on the other hand, you claim that most sims are lifestyle oriented... Sorry Tantus, it's not very coherent.


How many 'Gorean Roleplayers' are in SL Gor at any given time? Probably not many, like 5-10%

I don't even consider the other 90% as Roleplayers they are just Lifestylers. And I know you have a unique definition of the Gorean Lifestyler, hence, the disconnect.

Sasi wrote:About the definition of a good role players... Erm, by your standards, the RPers who are not investing their talent in "the wider community on a sim level" wouldn't be good RPers? What of those who spend much of their time out of their sim and seek RP in another? Often, they claim they are doing this for the sole purpose of bringing RP to the sim they initially joined. Which seldom happens. Personally, I tend to think they only seek their own contentment.


When someone is always away with no tangible benefit to the sim(And I've known people like this, who use your sim's tag as a shield, they only speak up when they're in trouble and need rescuing) it's a different situation to someone who's creating RP opportunities for all. Within your sim and beyond.
User avatar
Sasi
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:16 am
SL Name: Sasi

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Sasi » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:08 am

Tantus wrote:I shouldn't need to repeat our differing methods in spotting Lifestyle sims, you base your judgement on a Notecard, I look at the people involved. When I saw Lifestylers in Hochburg's admin group I knew that sim had zero-potential.
I shouldn't need to repeat our differing methods in spotting Lifestyle sims, you base your judgement on a Notecard, I look at the people involved. When I saw Lifestylers in Hochburg's admin group I knew that sim had zero-potential.


We often dealt, in Kaelus, with the Hochburg OOC team. They were not lifestylers. You certainly confuse, since it has not been the only Hochburg on the grid. And the rules of a sim are definitely a good way to know what to expect from the sim management, yes.


Tantus wrote:I'll concede it's a concern when I've had sexier ERP with FW, than slaves. But I'm not a fan of the SL Gor family model, with a companion and two slaves. Once I tried keeping two bisexual slaves in the same house(and I'll not explain why!). Total, total disaster. That's not to blame 'slaves', when you roleplay with strangers things don't always go to plan.

SLife is simpler with a single RP partner, which gives FW the edge in utility.

Men who find a skilled slut in their bed should just enslave her.. FW players would stop thinking they can have the best from two roles (slave / FW), the hot ERP + the freedom... They make of the slave role, one with no meaning.


Tantus wrote:If you were staying at Thentis we didn't meet then, maybe you were there before Pye bought the sim and transitioned it towards roleplaying. Earlier that year we learned SL Gor wasn't ready for a Paragraph-roleplayer only sim, although we had a solid base of RPers like Pye, Sazzy, Bear, Torments and Herpes! City of Victoria didn't take off, later in 2009 we moved to Thentis with a view to combining roleplay styles.

I remember Bear was ubar in this Thentis I knew... And know, I played a FW in Rovere at this period. Just played 2 days of captivity in Thentis, with a slaver who was definitely lifestyle (following my standards)

Tantus wrote:Here's the thing, if Lifestyle sims are taking the less capable slave-players, then it's better for everyone. And if they need some kennel system to manage these slaves, it's their business.

By taking your favoured Arian model and applying it to Lifestyle sims, won't work. They're a different crowd of people with unique needs.

All admins do burn out, it's why I fully support the 3 months model. It's better for the players too, as being into heavy RP beyond that period cannot be healthy. And I think players would be more inclined to take outlandish risks with their characters when a finite end is in sight.

The mistake practically everyone makes is thinking their sims will go on forever.

You are repeating what I already said.... I had been clear about this model I defended, that it could only be applied to -sims which have standards- regarding the maturity of the players they wanted. Who care about the others? The cookie cutters, little doormats subs who consider Gor like a dating place that will help them to find an OOC dom with whom they will play their fantasies in an environment more exotic than the average BDSM sim? They are the ones who cause dramas, can't distance themselves from their character. And they drag around them the same kind of lame rpers.
I had been clear that this system kept these people away from a sim...

I am also a supporter of sims which don't last long but offer a thrilling wide sim storyline. But it's you, who used this argument of length against a few sims, introducing their short lifespan as a negative point.

Tantus wrote:I've searched some old Tarnwald logs and what I found was, we started the alliance roleplay in early January 2013, and Sais RP banned us at the month's end. I really didn't recall them being a factor, the alliance was about roleplaying with an old friend of mine. Sais being excluded was just a bonus, I'd never roleplay to such an extent for Sais alone :)

Roleplaying is what you make of it, thrilling, boring, entertaining.... how do you think I knew who the lifestyle and hopelessly lazy people were? Because I travelled to cities, roleplayed with their ranks, and got to learn who was productive and who would only ever amount to a slave-coddler online.

When-it-goes-well investing RP time in other cities benefits your sim too, when they return to roleplay on your sims and an exchange of RP happens between characters other than yourself. Now six people are roleplaying in the market from something you've started and it continues to snowball.

Please, an alliance inter-city RP is one of the easiest RP to organise... People in SL Gor easily favor alliance RP over conflicts... It's boring, it only brings RP to a little bunch of people (those who organize the pact). For the rest of your sim population, it's some tea party RP with visitors from the allied sims and the possibility to go to travel in their city as well, safely... There is not benefit for other people in your sim.

As for Sais, it looks like you bragged so much about this "extra-bonus" that some people with whom you talked still remember it and consider it was one of your purposes.....

Tantus wrote:'Probably' the wealthiest, in terms of the sim's currency I can't imagine anyone exceeded his IC earnings . As to those who roll wealthy characters, that's just lazy roleplaying.

You don't roll a wealthy character, Either you become it in RP (and the dices are necessary for determining the success of some of your char's actions, with your RP partners), either you start with a wealthy character through the background you wrote.

Tantus wrote:I wouldn't mind roleplaying in a bonafide political RP sim, it's just that when I see the general crowd of people settled on them, it's an immediate turn off. And I haven't been wrong about it, there hasn't been such a sim where I regretted my absence.

Sounds to me like you don't like leaving your comfort zone... If you don't RP with these people, what do you know about them?

Tantus wrote:I don't criticise political roleplay, it's those groups commonly involved with the theme who give it a dubious name. Since so much of their roleplaying is based around cliques, OOC friends and nepotism. I prefer political roleplaying where I have no control, when I must interact with outside sims who're naturally biased against us, but we overcome those challenges too with finely tuned diplomacy.

Here your mistake. In political RP where I have been part of, there was no clique. In these sims, we were inclusive. The houses recruited a lot, could be an ally or a family member. At the end, people who were inclusive. For Nero's Ar, I can't speak, since I left the sim when they started accepting a bunch of snowflakes, showed they had no real standards. After one of my friends, a FW, got a bunch of non sense crap from a FW and her display slaves in sexy silks (sic), I definitely lost my motivation.
There is no longer a sim, I think, that has the ground for a real political intrigue, fight for power and wealth, but if one re-opened, you should try to leave your comfort zone.

Tantus wrote:How many 'Gorean Roleplayers' are in SL Gor at any given time? Probably not many, like 5-10%

It's basically my point....

Tantus wrote:I don't even consider the other 90% as Roleplayers they are just Lifestylers. And I know you have a unique definition of the Gorean Lifestyler, hence, the disconnect.

From my point of view, already exposed, Gorean lifestylers are people who embrace the Gorean values for real (even if in real life, they don't experience the lifestyle). They are people who once they logged in SL, consider themselves as Goreans, will happily mix IC and OOC. In SL, they become their character (those who label themselves as "soul players" are an example of lifestylers, too). These people have difficulties to understand the concept of OOC equality.
Simple like that.

What's your?
Tantus
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:55 am
SL Name: Inactive
Caste: Scribe

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Tantus » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:19 pm

Sasi wrote:We often dealt, in Kaelus, with the Hochburg OOC team. They were not lifestylers. You certainly confuse, since it has not been the only Hochburg on the grid. And the rules of a sim are definitely a good way to know what to expect from the sim management, yes.


Profiles are irrelevant. Sim Rules are irrelevant. I base my judgement on their example of roleplaying.

That incarnation of Hochburg did include Lifestyle Goreans in their admin team, if you failed to spot them then, and now, there's nothing I can do to help you.

Sasi wrote:I remember Bear was ubar in this Thentis I knew... And know, I played a FW in Rovere at this period. Just played 2 days of captivity in Thentis, with a slaver who was definitely lifestyle (following my standards)


Rovere at the time had its share of Lifestylers too, it was just the state of Gor.

Sasi wrote:You are repeating what I already said.... I had been clear about this model I defended, that it could only be applied to -sims which have standards- regarding the maturity of the players they wanted. Who care about the others? The cookie cutters, little doormats subs who consider Gor like a dating place that will help them to find an OOC dom with whom they will play their fantasies in an environment more exotic than the average BDSM sim? They are the ones who cause dramas, can't distance themselves from their character. And they drag around them the same kind of lame rpers.
I had been clear that this system kept these people away from a sim...

I am also a supporter of sims which don't last long but offer a thrilling wide sim storyline. But it's you, who used this argument of length against a few sims, introducing their short lifespan as a negative point.


I think you were arguing for your system to be applied to all sims. But even in RP sims this system is a compromise, since having 80% of slaves unowned and wandering the streets is hardly in line with Gorean reality. It sounds closer to the Gor Hub.

Were any of these people stopping to roleplay in Ar? Probably not, no one stays to roleplay in the Ars for any length of time. The Ars have not been an example of sims to emulate, neither in IC leadership, OOC administration or the general population. Somewhere within these disastrous omelettes are the slave protocols all sims should follow? I think not.

It's the context you're missing, when someone claims their sim is populated by advanced and vetted roleplayers, it's natural to hold higher expectations from them. But something is clearly wrong when these sims average an abysmal lifespan. Not once, not twice, practically every one of them.

Sasi wrote:Please, an alliance inter-city RP is one of the easiest RP to organise... People in SL Gor easily favor alliance RP over conflicts... It's boring, it only brings RP to a little bunch of people (those who organize the pact). For the rest of your sim population, it's some tea party RP with visitors from the allied sims and the possibility to go to travel in their city as well, safely... There is not benefit for other people in your sim.


And you would know this since you've organised roleplay between dozens(literally) of sims?
No, I didn't think so.

The 'trade alliance' was strictly for regulating trade between cities, whether they were hostile or allied wasn't our concern. The alliance was independent of Tarnwald other than the city hosting its headquarters. We built the framework for legal roleplay between states and people made use of it, we presided over disputes, collected debts, issued warrants and so on.

The alliance charter I wrote from Laura Outpost was improved. When you grant yourself executive powers over another city and have their High Council approve it. Then you walk through their city and promote their men to new roles.. it's a whole other story :D

I acted out of the inability of others to govern their own sims, not for personal amusement. One of the men I promoted into a leadership role went on to become their administrator. Why? Because I recognised that potential in him. Alas, our IC relationship deteriorated when he betrayed me, so I gave him the "I made you, I can break you." speech. And then I did. But I liked him, he was a good roleplayer, it wasn't the direction I wanted for us.

Sasi wrote:As for Sais, it looks like you bragged so much about this "extra-bonus" that some people with whom you talked still remember it and consider it was one of your purposes.....


It wasn't unusual to login to SL Gor and hear some rumour about yourself, propagated by silly people. But I didn't mind women warning fellow women about me, it makes some people want to write with you.

I don't think anyone can say I'm a loud person in chatgroups, I keep mostly to myself so this story of my bragging-so-much sounds bizarre. You're welcome to post logs from anywhere, even private IMs. Before you insinuate it occurred in Teamspeak, I don't use Discord or chat-programs external to SL, since they encourage metagaming and segregation of the community.

There were 4 chatgroups for Tarnwald, I've searched them all for "Sais" and found not a single instance of this bragging. The only occasion I spoke of the trade alliance was to list sims who weren't part of it. Without logs to credit your claims, you're becoming someone who peddles baseless rumours. It's also putting your intelligence and ability to reason at question and I don't appreciate that, since I don't dislike you Sasi, I just think you easily fall into the schemes of your so-called friends.

Sasi wrote:You don't roll a wealthy character, Either you become it in RP (and the dices are necessary for determining the success of some of your char's actions, with your RP partners), either you start with a wealthy character through the background you wrote.


It's just a figure of speech, rolling a character = creating a new character. Doesn't mean dice were involved ;)

The idea of rolling a wealthy character is, I feel, missing the point of roleplaying. You could begin as an ordinary character who accomplishes extraordinary feats to gain his wealth and status.

Sasi wrote:Sounds to me like you don't like leaving your comfort zone... If you don't RP with these people, what do you know about them?


Maybe you are right, I just don't find much inspiration to roleplay on Sci-fi sims where I see many furries around, not even the cool avatars but the cartoonish ones. Or urban sims where most the guys looks like hispters from a 12 year old's youtube channel. On fantasy sims I get a weird vibe, can't explain it. 'Political sims' GoT or otherwise, are always places where you need to join a clique to get the most out of it. They're very OOC based in that who you roleplay with IC, depends on who you know OOC.

Tantus wrote:Here your mistake. In political RP where I have been part of, there was no clique. In these sims, we were inclusive. The houses recruited a lot, could be an ally or a family member. At the end, people who were inclusive. For Nero's Ar, I can't speak, since I left the sim when they started accepting a bunch of snowflakes, showed they had no real standards. After one of my friends, a FW, got a bunch of non sense crap from a FW and her display slaves in sexy silks (sic), I definitely lost my motivation.
There is no longer a sim, I think, that has the ground for a real political intrigue, fight for power and wealth, but if one re-opened, you should try to leave your comfort zone.


Ar's have always had an elitist reputation, I don't think many would call them inclusive. I already explained why I choose not to roleplay in a house packed full of women. Being in a Reality TV show is for sure leaving my comfort zone.

I like my political roleplaying to be relevant and not about some random girl's emotions who all just happened to join your house. Before you say it doesn't happen this way. What did Ar's political houses accomplish? That's right, nothing at all. Not my scene.

Sasi wrote:From my point of view, already exposed, Gorean lifestylers are people who embrace the Gorean values for real (even if in real life, they don't experience the lifestyle). They are people who once they logged in SL, consider themselves as Goreans, will happily mix IC and OOC. In SL, they become their character (those who label themselves as "soul players" are an example of lifestylers, too). These people have difficulties to understand the concept of OOC equality.
Simple like that.

What's your?


I have a loose definition, basically anyone who isn't in Gor to roleplay real Gorean themes, will be tossed into the Lifestyle bracket and only interacted with if I need them.
User avatar
Sasi
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:16 am
SL Name: Sasi

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Sasi » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:49 pm

Tantus wrote:Profiles are irrelevant. Sim Rules are irrelevant. I base my judgement on their example of roleplaying.
That incarnation of Hochburg did include Lifestyle Goreans in their admin team, if you failed to spot them then, and now, there's nothing I can do to help you.

From what I saw of your definition of lifestylers, I can affirm that the Hochburg admin team was not made of lifestylers.
As I said, a lifestyler in SL Gor is someone who embraces the values of Gor for real: The misogynistic values like women are naturally sub and inferior to men, the bullshit about the so-called Gorean honor, etc.
It's not about the way you RP the real Gorean themes to the best of your abilities. Because in this case, I could say that maybe less 5% of people in SL Gor play following these real Gorean themes (believe me, I read the 34 books...).

Tantus wrote:I think you were arguing for your system to be applied to all sims. But even in RP sims this system is a compromise, since having 80% of slaves unowned and wandering the streets is hardly in line with Gorean reality. It sounds closer to the Gor Hub.
Were any of these people stopping to roleplay in Ar? Probably not, no one stays to roleplay in the Ars for any length of time. The Ars have not been an example of sims to emulate, neither in IC leadership, OOC administration or the general population. Somewhere within these disastrous omelettes are the slave protocols all sims should follow? I think not.
It's the context you're missing, when someone claims their sim is populated by advanced and vetted roleplayers, it's natural to hold higher expectations from them. But something is clearly wrong when these sims average an abysmal lifespan. Not once, not twice, practically every one of them.

That system would be probably applied only to sims which have standards. Not to those which don't mind to attract the same shitty rpers who never improve despite years of role play. But in theory, this system could be applied everywhere. As I said, who cares about those slave players who couldn't adjust? If they couldn't find a sim where they could be "babysitted", they would just leave SL Gor. No big loss.

Also, why do you speak about 80% of unowned slaves wandering the streets? With my system, all these slaves would be owned. There would be no longer unowned slaves. State kennels don't need a played character for a slaver. NPC slavers would be perfect. It's for the slave players to play state slaves, to be in control of their RP and interact with other players in the sim. No dumb slaver player to tell them to perform some boring chore, to go serve to the local inn, etc. Those who wouldn't be interested in playing a state slave, could NPC a private master. It's not difficult. I already played with slave players who had a NPC owner.

The Ar sims had generally a solid player base. Except for Nero's Ar when no standard had been applied, when the number of snowflakes increased. As for their lifespan, it's usually 4 or 5 months (except the last one opened by Cali.... But that was not a surprise....)

Tantus wrote:And you would know this since you've organised roleplay between dozens(literally) of sims?
No, I didn't think so.
The 'trade alliance' was strictly for regulating trade between cities, whether they were hostile or allied wasn't our concern. The alliance was independent of Tarnwald other than the city hosting its headquarters. We built the framework for legal roleplay between states and people made use of it, we presided over disputes, collected debts, issued warrants and so on.
The alliance charter I wrote from Laura Outpost was improved. When you grant yourself executive powers over another city and have their High Council approve it. Then you walk through their city and promote their men to new roles.. it's a whole other story :D
I acted out of the inability of others to govern their own sims, not for personal amusement. One of the men I promoted into a leadership role went on to become their administrator. Why? Because I recognised that potential in him. Alas, our IC relationship deteriorated when he betrayed me, so I gave him the "I made you, I can break you." speech. And then I did. But I liked him, he was a good roleplayer, it wasn't the direction I wanted for us.

I RPed in Gor since 2006. Every time a trade alliance between sims is organized, those who settle it give this exact same speech. And every time, there is only RP for those who make the trade, then, some boring tea party RP with visitors from these allied sims.
I judge the abilities of RPers at creating RP, intrigues, conflicts, in the sim they joined, with the other sims members. An added value, for a sim, is the RPer who does that and whose friends will join as well and increase the traffic in creating more RP.
I loved Illyros' concept for this reason. No crap visitor, no need to deal with other sims.
Else, open your own sim, Tantus and let us see if you succeed better than all previous and actual sim owners.

Tantus wrote:It wasn't unusual to login to SL Gor and hear some rumour about yourself, propagated by silly people. But I didn't mind women warning fellow women about me, it makes some people want to write with you.
I don't think anyone can say I'm a loud person in chatgroups, I keep mostly to myself so this story of my bragging-so-much sounds bizarre. You're welcome to post logs from anywhere, even private IMs. Before you insinuate it occurred in Teamspeak, I don't use Discord or chat-programs external to SL, since they encourage metagaming and segregation of the community.
There were 4 chatgroups for Tarnwald, I've searched them all for "Sais" and found not a single instance of this bragging. The only occasion I spoke of the trade alliance was to list sims who weren't part of it. Without logs to credit your claims, you're becoming someone who peddles baseless rumours. It's also putting your intelligence and ability to reason at question and I don't appreciate that, since I don't dislike you Sasi, I just think you easily fall into the schemes of your so-called friends.

It was not in a group chat and this had not been told to me by women... (stop assuming that women naturally spread rumors, etc, more than men........). Apparently, you were loud in the IMs of some guys, expressing your satisfaction in excluding Sais from this trade alliance RP. Maybe were they wrong at assuming you organized this RP for the sole purpose of pissing Sais off but it's obviously the impression you left... Personally, I think this issue was rather plausible. How many times did I see men raging because their sim got banned by another...? Erm, let me think... Probably a hundred of times, lol lol! I guess it allows me to believe this kind of confidence :mrgreen:
And for the logs, in 2013, 5 years ago... Myself I changed my PC twice and never kept any log. But check your IMs if you kept them all :)

Tantus wrote:It's just a figure of speech, rolling a character = creating a new character. Doesn't mean dice were involved ;)
The idea of rolling a wealthy character is, I feel, missing the point of roleplaying. You could begin as an ordinary character who accomplishes extraordinary feats to gain his wealth and status.

Ok, my bad... I pettily assumed you were just making some negative points ahout the use of dices.... :mrgreen: But I disagree with the rest. If everyone in a sim started as an "ordinary" character who accomplishes feats in order to gain wealth and status, there would be no ubar, no commander, no magistrates, etc when the sim open... There is nothing wrong at having all this ascent in your backstory if you made it sound plausible. And I disagree with your conception of "ordinary". The RPer who starts rping with a wealthy merchant character is still an ordinary character. In Gor, this character is not off norm. An exceptional character is what I would call an extraordinary one because off norm. And there is a fine line between playing an exceptional character and playing a total snowflake. My preference goes to these ordinary characters. You can have an extraordinary story with an ordinary wealthy character when this one faces failures, lose wealth, status, freedom.

Tantus wrote:Maybe you are right, I just don't find much inspiration to roleplay on Sci-fi sims where I see many furries around, not even the cool avatars but the cartoonish ones. Or urban sims where most the guys looks like hispters from a 12 year old's youtube channel. On fantasy sims I get a weird vibe, can't explain it. 'Political sims' GoT or otherwise, are always places where you need to join a clique to get the most out of it. They're very OOC based in that who you roleplay with IC, depends on who you know OOC.


I never played in a RP sim with furries. As for the hipsters, you even meet them in SL Gor.... For GoT, you can just take a look at the ads which are posted in their forums and apply for one of the roles. Best way to be included in the on going stories. After, you mesh or not with these people.

Tantus wrote:Ar's have always had an elitist reputation, I don't think many would call them inclusive. I already explained why I choose not to roleplay in a house packed full of women. Being in a Reality TV show is for sure leaving my comfort zone.
I like my political roleplaying to be relevant and not about some random girl's emotions who all just happened to join your house. Before you say it doesn't happen this way. What did Ar's political houses accomplish? That's right, nothing at all. Not my scene.


Tantus, in SL Gor, as soon as you have standards, as soon as you are a para-rper, as soon as you require people to take posting tours, as soon as you don't want to play with snowflakes, you are called "elitist". Finally, "elitist" begins to sound like a label of role-play quality for a sim...
For the house RP, well, the usual... Gaining power, position, eliminating rivals, having one of their male member become ubar in place of the current ubar.
And since you never played in Ar's political houses, after all, what do you know of their RP...? I think your judgements are mostly based on prejudices...

Tantus wrote:I have a loose definition, basically anyone who isn't in Gor to roleplay real Gorean themes, will be tossed into the Lifestyle bracket and only interacted with if I need them.

I reacted to this statement in top of this post.
Tantus
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:55 am
SL Name: Inactive
Caste: Scribe

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Tantus » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:08 am

Sasi wrote:From what I saw of your definition of lifestylers, I can affirm that the Hochburg admin team was not made of lifestylers.


And I can affirm you wasted weeks of your time trying to negotiate a significant storyline with Lifestylers.

I recognized the culprits for what they were and wasted zero hours on Hochburg, despite having friends on this sim, people I like, but your eyes should be on who holds the influence before planning events with them.


Sasi wrote:That system would be probably applied only to sims which have standards. Not to those which don't mind to attract the same shitty rpers who never improve despite years of role play. But in theory, this system could be applied everywhere. As I said, who cares about those slave players who couldn't adjust? If they couldn't find a sim where they could be "babysitted", they would just leave SL Gor. No big loss.

Also, why do you speak about 80% of unowned slaves wandering the streets? With my system, all these slaves would be owned. There would be no longer unowned slaves. State kennels don't need a played character for a slaver. NPC slavers would be perfect. It's for the slave players to play state slaves, to be in control of their RP and interact with other players in the sim. No dumb slaver player to tell them to perform some boring chore, to go serve to the local inn, etc. Those who wouldn't be interested in playing a state slave, could NPC a private master. It's not difficult. I already played with slave players who had a NPC owner.

The Ar sims had generally a solid player base. Except for Nero's Ar when no standard had been applied, when the number of snowflakes increased. As for their lifespan, it's usually 4 or 5 months (except the last one opened by Cali.... But that was not a surprise....)


I was under the impression this Nero was a friend of yours, how swiftly the poor guy's being dragged through the dirt. The Ar's generally chug along as dysfunctional sims after the initial month of hype, once the political roleplay fails to launch and every hope for the sim lays dead in the water, all that remains are personal relationships. Anyone in SL Gor would tell you this, it's only a sim with high standards to you.

Slave players aren't content with being NPC owned, even on sims with 'high standards' they want engaging themes with an IC owner. Practically every slave I encountered in Ar's markets were unowned. By your own account, you tend not to leave your home to roleplay with random people, it's beneath you or something, so you wouldn't know how these character's portray themselves.


Sasi wrote:I RPed in Gor since 2006. Every time a trade alliance between sims is organized, those who settle it give this exact same speech. And every time, there is only RP for those who make the trade, then, some boring tea party RP with visitors from these allied sims.
I judge the abilities of RPers at creating RP, intrigues, conflicts, in the sim they joined, with the other sims members. An added value, for a sim, is the RPer who does that and whose friends will join as well and increase the traffic in creating more RP.
I loved Illyros' concept for this reason. No crap visitor, no need to deal with other sims.
Else, open your own sim, Tantus and let us see if you succeed better than all previous and actual sim owners.


An alliance is an opportunity for players. By your definition it only works for those who use it and I agree 100%. Pro-active players who stand up and create roleplay will benefit from these tools, those who sit indoors and do nothing, won't.

As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

Illyros? It was a concept. Whether it hosted roleplayers capable of creating intrigues and conflicts is another story.
I find it disrespectful to compare a lethargic sim of inactivity with those people who made an actual effort in building their political storylines. Absolutely anyone can pen down a concept, to action it is where the work begins.

As to opening a sim, I know I couldn't commit the time to it, you literally need 12 hours a day online to run it successfully. Probably most sims have closed due to a lack of engagement from their owner(s), it's not a mistake I would repeat. But on the sims I had joined, I participated in my own ways. Whether bringing Pye buckets of drama to moderate, or creating stories between sims, it all balances out.


Sasi wrote:It was not in a group chat and this had not been told to me by women... (stop assuming that women naturally spread rumors, etc, more than men........). Apparently, you were loud in the IMs of some guys, expressing your satisfaction in excluding Sais from this trade alliance RP. Maybe were they wrong at assuming you organized this RP for the sole purpose of pissing Sais off but it's obviously the impression you left... Personally, I think this issue was rather plausible. How many times did I see men raging because their sim got banned by another...? Erm, let me think... Probably a hundred of times, lol lol! I guess it allows me to believe this kind of confidence :mrgreen:
And for the logs, in 2013, 5 years ago... Myself I changed my PC twice and never kept any log. But check your IMs if you kept them all :)


Thanks for the nostalgia Sasi, I'd almost forgotten how it was to raid a Lifestyle sim and have one of their moderators IM you:

"This raid is invalid because you're cheating"
"Hi, how am I cheating?"
"You know how you cheated"
"I do not. How did I cheat?"
"You are dual wielding and reset your meter"
"These are serious allegations affecting my Honour as a Gorean Man and Warrior. Do you have the logs of this reset and dual wielding"
"We don't need the logs, the Sirs on my sim are Honorable Men and they say you cheated. The raid is invalid."

This is literally the conversation I'm having with you, if you were moderating a dispute between myself and these 'guys', then they've reduced you to the status of these silly girls who attempted moderation on Lifestyle Sims.

I'm asking you for evidence and your only response is, "These sirs are honorable men, I don't need to see their logs." Out of courtesy to you, Sasi, I'm going to end this before your friends abandon you on some island of shame without recourse.

This isn't a strategy where you post rumours on a forum, I reject them as nonsense, then you return with logs as proof. It's not going to happen since I haven't done those things, they sound very uncharacteristic. My consent is out there to post private IMs of even a single instance of my "bragging". Between 'so many guys' and 'so much bragging' there must be something tangible. Maybe your friends have personal issues to address, they sound to me like those Lifestylers who cried foul every time their cute sensitivities were upset. I am not wrong in stating this is a case of women, gossiping with women.

I would never send a friend of mine onto a forum with some half baked rumour, without a single shred of evidence. Because I care about my friends. The only proof here is to the advice I've already given you, your friends use you, they abuse your trust in them. It's not nice to observe so I'm encouraging you to align yourself with genuine people who care about you.

Sasi wrote:But I disagree with the rest. If everyone in a sim started as an "ordinary" character who accomplishes feats in order to gain wealth and status, there would be no ubar, no commander, no magistrates, etc when the sim open... There is nothing wrong at having all this ascent in your backstory if you made it sound plausible. And I disagree with your conception of "ordinary". The RPer who starts rping with a wealthy merchant character is still an ordinary character. In Gor, this character is not off norm. An exceptional character is what I would call an extraordinary one because off norm. And there is a fine line between playing an exceptional character and playing a total snowflake. My preference goes to these ordinary characters. You can have an extraordinary story with an ordinary wealthy character when this one faces failures, lose wealth, status, freedom.


Some RP sims take the approach of NPC'ing their ranked positions and I don't disagree with it.

The alternative is where characters are granted titles by application or friendship with the sim owner. These OOC decisions often lead to the promotion of inactive players, consequently they stunt ongoing storylines which affects the entire community. I've preferred the NPC approach at the beginning which can be filled by players who prove themselves through roleplaying.

All things being equal, the one with the drive and enthusiasm is the right person for the job, against the jaded old player who no longer makes an effort. But the latter person will often land the role because he's friends with the sim owner.

Another common scenario is where players begin in office and feel their only duty now is to sit at home and feel important, surrounded by their IC family and entourage of slave. These people are a waste of Sim FPS, utterly useless.

Sasi wrote:I never played in a RP sim with furries. As for the hipsters, you even meet them in SL Gor.... For GoT, you can just take a look at the ads which are posted in their forums and apply for one of the roles. Best way to be included in the on going stories. After, you mesh or not with these people.


I'm not a fan of tattooed and pierced Gorean hipsters either. Obviously I blame women for aahing and cooing and encouraging these fashions in Gor RP!

Not all GoT sims have standards, other than ROIAF, you'll see the other GoT sims out there are akin to Gor's Lifestyle scene complete with flexi avatars.

Sasi wrote:Tantus, in SL Gor, as soon as you have standards, as soon as you are a para-rper, as soon as you require people to take posting tours, as soon as you don't want to play with snowflakes, you are called "elitist". Finally, "elitist" begins to sound like a label of role-play quality for a sim...
For the house RP, well, the usual... Gaining power, position, eliminating rivals, having one of their male member become ubar in place of the current ubar.
And since you never played in Ar's political houses, after all, what do you know of their RP...? I think your judgements are mostly based on prejudices...


The fact that you only offer buzzwords and concepts is proof enough that Ar fails to deliver on actual substance. When I've seen the names filling these political houses and I know them to be useless, I have a fairly good idea of how Ar's political RPs have failed to deliver.

Who has ever managed to eliminate adversaries in Ar and influenced the election of an Ubar sympathetic to our cause? It was a defining moment for my character when he walked through the chambers of the city who'd once issued warrants for his execution, and now agreed to his terms of peace. That comes from roleplaying and not just speculating.

The people who roleplay in these Ars talk a good game, but they don't accomplish anything. I've never heard a story of succession from Ar which wasn't OOC'ly interfered with, until this one occasion where we roleplayed with them.
User avatar
Sasi
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:16 am
SL Name: Sasi

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Sasi » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:40 pm

Tantus wrote:And I can affirm you wasted weeks of your time trying to negotiate a significant storyline with Lifestylers.
I recognized the culprits for what they were and wasted zero hours on Hochburg, despite having friends on this sim, people I like, but your eyes should be on who holds the influence before planning events with them.


I showed to you that we didn't have the same definition of what is a lifestyler. And these people were not. They never identified themselves, OOC, to their characters, in our OOC chats, they clearly separated the character from the typist. I RPed with Drusus, their ubar and sim owner, I chatted with him. You're confusing with another Hochburg.

Tantus wrote:I was under the impression this Nero was a friend of yours, how swiftly the poor guy's being dragged through the dirt. The Ar's generally chug along as dysfunctional sims after the initial month of hype, once the political roleplay fails to launch and every hope for the sim lays dead in the water, all that remains are personal relationships. Anyone in SL Gor would tell you this, it's only a sim with high standards to you.

Slave players aren't content with being NPC owned, even on sims with 'high standards' they want engaging themes with an IC owner. Practically every slave I encountered in Ar's markets were unowned. By your own account, you tend not to leave your home to roleplay with random people, it's beneath you or something, so you wouldn't know how these character's portray themselves.


Nero was not a friend of mine. I met him on some sim, we chatted, then when he decided to open a sim, he told me, we talked about his project. When he had not been satisfied with the work of his first builder, I helped him to contact Targus. Later, I helped for the rules, especially the NPC part that most people ignored anyway and I did some decoration. I didn't even follow what happened between him and the rest of his team, why he left, the dramas, etc.

Many slave players are just tired of the crap they are being given in city kennels. They are just not interested. Being able to start with a NPC owner is the best way to have a more interesting RP and of course, to meet a RP partner. And this without being bothered with some dude slaver who wants you to give a tour to visitors, to do boring chores and attend to classes which mix IC and OOC.

I never said I didn't leave my home to RP with random people. When I'm in a political storyline, I mostly RP at home, because guess what? You don't build schemes in the streets, where anyone can hear about your secret plans. And a house in a sim is not an OOC private residence. It's a RP area as well. In Tarnwald, I contacted people to get allies against my captor and even faced a public trial for a question of unpaid ransom (which I won as I gained the delay I needed, escaping a slavery sentence required by this captor). I tried, during this trial, to awake people's suspicions about his loyalty to Tarnwald. As much for your statement of me, rping only behind closed doors.

Also, I have friends who play a slave and one of my FW characters bought, once, a slave who was owned by a NPC. I don't understand why you imply this NPC ownership thing is such a big deal. It is not. And I'm tired of people who whine because "slaves can't get RP by themselves" but refuse the option of having a NPC owner. My system is just that: To allow slave players to remain in control of their role play, to RP what they enjoy and not the crap that someone else decide they should RP and where.

Tantus wrote:An alliance is an opportunity for players. By your definition it only works for those who use it and I agree 100%. Pro-active players who stand up and create roleplay will benefit from these tools, those who sit indoors and do nothing, won't.
As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...
Illyros? It was a concept. Whether it hosted roleplayers capable of creating intrigues and conflicts is another story.
I find it disrespectful to compare a lethargic sim of inactivity with those people who made an actual effort in building their political storylines. Absolutely anyone can pen down a concept, to action it is where the work begins.
As to opening a sim, I know I couldn't commit the time to it, you literally need 12 hours a day online to run it successfully. Probably most sims have closed due to a lack of engagement from their owner(s), it's not a mistake I would repeat. But on the sims I had joined, I participated in my own ways. Whether bringing Pye buckets of drama to moderate, or creating stories between sims, it all balances out.


Illyros was not a lethargic sim. Re-read what people who have been part of this sim told...

An alliance interests those who play a merchant, of course. It gives RP to some ambassadors, the local ubar and some warrior players who yawn behind their screen while standing around these people as escort. For the rest of your sim, you gain peaceful visitors who come friendly, certain to be safe because the cities are allies. And what you get is some tea party RP. It only becomes interesting when one of the involved cities betrays and ruisn the trade, causing a conflict, a war.
But alliances don't bring much interesting stories. I remember, long ago, the sim owners of Malignance, not happy because some houses had started to create alliances, which was definitely not the purpose in the lore and of course, killed the conflicts and belligerances which gave the city its real atmosphere of danger.
But in Gor, people are all into alliances, peace, trades... People like to claim Gor is a harsh world, but at the end they only blossom in safe environments with peaceful people.

Anyway, if you can't understand that a sim should be able to be self sufficient in terms of RP and stories, definitely, I can't help.

And if you opened a sim, Tantus, you would not do better than all other sim owners before you (and you don't need to be 12 hours active in order to own a sim. You just need a dedicated admin team and to trust them).

Tantus wrote:Thanks for the nostalgia Sasi, I'd almost forgotten how it was to raid a Lifestyle sim and have one of their moderators IM you:
"This raid is invalid because you're cheating"
"Hi, how am I cheating?"
"You know how you cheated"
"I do not. How did I cheat?"
"You are dual wielding and reset your meter"
"These are serious allegations affecting my Honour as a Gorean Man and Warrior. Do you have the logs of this reset and dual wielding"
"We don't need the logs, the Sirs on my sim are Honorable Men and they say you cheated. The raid is invalid."
This is literally the conversation I'm having with you, if you were moderating a dispute between myself and these 'guys', then they've reduced you to the status of these silly girls who attempted moderation on Lifestyle Sims.
I'm asking you for evidence and your only response is, "These sirs are honorable men, I don't need to see their logs." Out of courtesy to you, Sasi, I'm going to end this before your friends abandon you on some island of shame without recourse.
This isn't a strategy where you post rumours on a forum, I reject them as nonsense, then you return with logs as proof. It's not going to happen since I haven't done those things, they sound very uncharacteristic. My consent is out there to post private IMs of even a single instance of my "bragging". Between 'so many guys' and 'so much bragging' there must be something tangible. Maybe your friends have personal issues to address, they sound to me like those Lifestylers who cried foul every time their cute sensitivities were upset. I am not wrong in stating this is a case of women, gossiping with women.
I would never send a friend of mine onto a forum with some half baked rumour, without a single shred of evidence. Because I care about my friends. The only proof here is to the advice I've already given you, your friends use you, they abuse your trust in them. It's not nice to observe so I'm encouraging you to align yourself with genuine people who care about you.


You're becoming a little bit melo-dramatic, there... First, please, don't compare an immediate situation where logs can be provided easily and a situation which happened 5 years ago. Not all people keep the same PC for so long and when they change, saving the IMs is not an usual reflex.
Second, I said I thought it was plausible, because it's typically the male's reaction in SL Gor. Tossing a tantrum over some ban and thinking of some retaliation. Eh, see, you're not the only one, at expressing prejudices toward a gender...!I'm sometimes guilty of the same.
Basically, what I had been said after people of my friend circle, ex-Tarnwald members, saw your own comments about IC and OOC separation, was that you told something about bringing more clout to tarnwald and so, Tarnwald could use the IC trade alliance to isolate Sais.

That was not even a rumor, Tantus. Just people's impressions about what were your inner motivations. So, either they are wrong, they misunderstood you (and you have been loud about this last option), either, you expressed some satisfaction about this other consequence for Sais. And you told yourself in this discussion that you would have considered it as a bonus.

When I think of it, after all, it doesn't mean you did this trade alliance in this purpose only. But as I told you, you gave this impression that this trade became a tool you could as well use in order to piss Sais off. Such a big deal... Zen, Tantus, I'm not challenging your honor, lol! I merely used this little issue in our discussion about IC and OOC separation and to oppose your "trade alliance" RP to my conception of political RP... Hmm.. Sounds like I hit a nerve...

And in Tarnwald, for what I remember, the best storyline was one which happened within the city walls, with Tarnwald people and which allowed everyone to be part of it. An affluent citizen had plotted a coup d'etat in order to seize the power. The author didn't spare his efforts for involving as many people as possible.

Tantus wrote:Some RP sims take the approach of NPC'ing their ranked positions and I don't disagree with it.
The alternative is where characters are granted titles by application or friendship with the sim owner. These OOC decisions often lead to the promotion of inactive players, consequently they stunt ongoing storylines which affects the entire community. I've preferred the NPC approach at the beginning which can be filled by players who prove themselves through roleplaying.
All things being equal, the one with the drive and enthusiasm is the right person for the job, against the jaded old player who no longer makes an effort. But the latter person will often land the role because he's friends with the sim owner.
Another common scenario is where players begin in office and feel their only duty now is to sit at home and feel important, surrounded by their IC family and entourage of slave. These people are a waste of Sim FPS, utterly useless.


I don't dislike the NPC used for the positions of head of castes. But it's not always possible with some positions. It's hard for a NPC praetor to sentence an individual for some crime...

And it's not because a player has been given a position through an application that he cannot lose it throught role-play. It's the purpose of political RP, Tantus... Getting a better position, working at making your rivals fail in order to take their place.
Yes, in SL Gor, it often lead to dramas. Because most people don't know how to lose, are not much interested in playing this part, when the character lost, must face ordeals, the dishonor, the slavery, or the death. I played a this part a few times, it's intensive. But a FW is more exposed when she starts involving herself into schemes. Just, in SL Gor, most people don't consider the possibility of losing and the new RP opportunities it would bring. They want to win and win quickly.

Also, being put in ranked position doesn't mean neither that you should carry on your shoulders, all the responsibility of other people's RP. People should not rely exclusively on the ranked characters to give them RP. It's 50/50. It's a collaborative game.

Regarding those who mostly focus on family RP, we have similar opinions on this matter.

Tantus wrote:I'm not a fan of tattooed and pierced Gorean hipsters either. Obviously I blame women for aahing and cooing and encouraging these fashions in Gor RP!
Not all GoT sims have standards, other than ROIAF, you'll see the other GoT sims out there are akin to Gor's Lifestyle scene complete with flexi avatars.

In ORS, Kaelus and Illyros, we had a strict dress code. You would never see men covered with tattoos and piercings, nor flexi (flexi have often a high complexity, they cause lag).
And stop blaming women! Most hipsters you see are real young men who think that style is very hot and believe themselves to be super creative in indulging in one-upmanship. Women just want a well done avatar, all mesh, that looks hot.
And I didn't visit other GoT sims. Only ROIAF.

Tantus wrote:The fact that you only offer buzzwords and concepts is proof enough that Ar fails to deliver on actual substance. When I've seen the names filling these political houses and I know them to be useless, I have a fairly good idea of how Ar's political RPs have failed to deliver.
Who has ever managed to eliminate adversaries in Ar and influenced the election of an Ubar sympathetic to our cause? It was a defining moment for my character when he walked through the chambers of the city who'd once issued warrants for his execution, and now agreed to his terms of peace. That comes from roleplaying and not just speculating.

The people who roleplay in these Ars talk a good game, but they don't accomplish anything. I've never heard a story of succession from Ar which wasn't OOC'ly interfered with, until this one occasion where we roleplayed with them.

You expressed so vehemently your dislike of political RP, whatever in Gor or ROIAF, that honestly, I don't think you judge it with a real impartiality. Not to mention that you were never part of the intrigues played in these sims. You base your point on "names". But did you RP with these people? Not even. At least, when I criticize snowflakes and lame slavers, I can rely on my personal experience....
Tantus
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:55 am
SL Name: Inactive
Caste: Scribe

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Tantus » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:08 pm

Sasi wrote:I showed to you that we didn't have the same definition of what is a lifestyler. And these people were not. They never identified themselves, OOC, to their characters, in our OOC chats, they clearly separated the character from the typist. I RPed with Drusus, their ubar and sim owner, I chatted with him. You're confusing with another Hochburg.


Why is this even under discussion?
Did you waste your sim(Kaelus)'s time and resources on Hochburg? Yes.

Did I waste my time there? No.
Tarnwald was in full swing when Hochburg opened, I saw their people, I stayed away.

Your definitions have failed you.

Sasi wrote:Nero was not a friend of mine. I met him on some sim, we chatted, then when he decided to open a sim, he told me, we talked about his project. When he had not been satisfied with the work of his first builder, I helped him to contact Targus. Later, I helped for the rules, especially the NPC part that most people ignored anyway and I did some decoration. I didn't even follow what happened between him and the rest of his team, why he left, the dramas, etc.

Many slave players are just tired of the crap they are being given in city kennels. They are just not interested. Being able to start with a NPC owner is the best way to have a more interesting RP and of course, to meet a RP partner. And this without being bothered with some dude slaver who wants you to give a tour to visitors, to do boring chores and attend to classes which mix IC and OOC.

I never said I didn't leave my home to RP with random people. When I'm in a political storyline, I mostly RP at home, because guess what? You don't build schemes in the streets, where anyone can hear about your secret plans. And a house in a sim is not an OOC private residence. It's a RP area as well. In Tarnwald, I contacted people to get allies against my captor and even faced a public trial for a question of unpaid ransom (which I won as I gained the delay I needed, escaping a slavery sentence required by this captor). I tried, during this trial, to awake people's suspicions about his loyalty to Tarnwald. As much for your statement of me, rping only behind closed doors.

Also, I have friends who play a slave and one of my FW characters bought, once, a slave who was owned by a NPC. I don't understand why you imply this NPC ownership thing is such a big deal. It is not. And I'm tired of people who whine because "slaves can't get RP by themselves" but refuse the option of having a NPC owner. My system is just that: To allow slave players to remain in control of their role play, to RP what they enjoy and not the crap that someone else decide they should RP and where.


I don't know Nero or who's alt he may be, when he roleplayed with me and then I saw the girls in his profile. I knew he was done. You don't make terrible decisions like those and walk away a free man.

There's no issue with NPC owners, I just think slave-characters in general should evolve away from the virginal long-term project, to something that's fun and slutty to encounter in a paga den. I would roleplay with that.

Sasi wrote:Illyros was not a lethargic sim. Re-read what people who have been part of this sim told...

An alliance interests those who play a merchant, of course. It gives RP to some ambassadors, the local ubar and some warrior players who yawn behind their screen while standing around these people as escort. For the rest of your sim, you gain peaceful visitors who come friendly, certain to be safe because the cities are allies. And what you get is some tea party RP. It only becomes interesting when one of the involved cities betrays and ruisn the trade, causing a conflict, a war.
But alliances don't bring much interesting stories. I remember, long ago, the sim owners of Malignance, not happy because some houses had started to create alliances, which was definitely not the purpose in the lore and of course, killed the conflicts and belligerances which gave the city its real atmosphere of danger.
But in Gor, people are all into alliances, peace, trades... People like to claim Gor is a harsh world, but at the end they only blossom in safe environments with peaceful people.

Anyway, if you can't understand that a sim should be able to be self sufficient in terms of RP and stories, definitely, I can't help.

And if you opened a sim, Tantus, you would not do better than all other sim owners before you (and you don't need to be 12 hours active in order to own a sim. You just need a dedicated admin team and to trust them).


Timing is important too, the environment isn't always ready for a new sim. I've been on admin teams and know their importance, I also see many sims faltered from having admins as unavailable as their sim owners. As to Illyros, the only consensus is some good roleplay was had, but briefly. I suppose a dedicated admin team could have helped you realise those short-mid term storylines.

I've not been part of an alliance where there wasn't conflict, war and even betrayals. The themes or the lack of anything you've participated in, isn't the experience of others. Rovere alliance, Cardonicus alliance, Tyros, Treve and Teslit, then Salerian Confedaration, Fina and Sais, Vonda alliance... Tarnwald came much later. BTB was already dead by then, we hoped to revive some interest. During which, I think that was the trial I defended you in.

Sasi wrote:You're becoming a little bit melo-dramatic, there... First, please, don't compare an immediate situation where logs can be provided easily and a situation which happened 5 years ago. Not all people keep the same PC for so long and when they change, saving the IMs is not an usual reflex.
Second, I said I thought it was plausible, because it's typically the male's reaction in SL Gor. Tossing a tantrum over some ban and thinking of some retaliation. Eh, see, you're not the only one, at expressing prejudices toward a gender...!I'm sometimes guilty of the same.
Basically, what I had been said after people of my friend circle, ex-Tarnwald members, saw your own comments about IC and OOC separation, was that you told something about bringing more clout to tarnwald and so, Tarnwald could use the IC trade alliance to isolate Sais.

That was not even a rumor, Tantus. Just people's impressions about what were your inner motivations. So, either they are wrong, they misunderstood you (and you have been loud about this last option), either, you expressed some satisfaction about this other consequence for Sais. And you told yourself in this discussion that you would have considered it as a bonus.

When I think of it, after all, it doesn't mean you did this trade alliance in this purpose only. But as I told you, you gave this impression that this trade became a tool you could as well use in order to piss Sais off. Such a big deal... Zen, Tantus, I'm not challenging your honor, lol! I merely used this little issue in our discussion about IC and OOC separation and to oppose your "trade alliance" RP to my conception of political RP... Hmm.. Sounds like I hit a nerve...

And in Tarnwald, for what I remember, the best storyline was one which happened within the city walls, with Tarnwald people and which allowed everyone to be part of it. An affluent citizen had plotted a coup d'etat in order to seize the power. The author didn't spare his efforts for involving as many people as possible.


Firstly your friends need to understand a couple of basics. An RP ban isn't an IC action, it's OOC.
When you respond by excluding them from your roleplay, it's respecting their wishes. This isn't crossing IC/OOC, it's called courtesy.

Now this story is changing from my supposedly bragging to multiple people in IMs, to some stray impressions being formed. As I've already noted, the alliance RP had begun about a month before Sais had RP banned us, I suppose your friends felt I could see the future too.

It's not difficult to store your SL logs, mine were routinely backed up along with everything else I send. I once had logs from multiple PCs, OSs and locations accessing a single folder. Until Linux interfered with the formating of my Windows' logs. Not cool.


Sasi wrote:In ORS, Kaelus and Illyros, we had a strict dress code. You would never see men covered with tattoos and piercings, nor flexi (flexi have often a high complexity, they cause lag).
And stop blaming women! Most hipsters you see are real young men who think that style is very hot and believe themselves to be super creative in indulging in one-upmanship. Women just want a well done avatar, all mesh, that looks hot.


For any guys who're struggling to find RP in Gor I'd advice them to go with a younger looking avatar and profile suggesting they're in their 20s. Free women will be all over it. That's just how it is.

In the north, over-sized avatars that hover to give them extra height are hot. I don't make this up, it's what gets men attention and they go for it. So yes, women are to blame!

Meanwhile, those of us with normal avatars had to work for our RP because I refuse to emulate Justin Bieber even if free women dig it.

Sasi wrote:You expressed so vehemently your dislike of political RP, whatever in Gor or ROIAF, that honestly, I don't think you judge it with a real impartiality. Not to mention that you were never part of the intrigues played in these sims. You base your point on "names". But did you RP with these people? Not even. At least, when I criticize snowflakes and lame slavers, I can rely on my personal experience....


I've enjoyed the politics of roleplaying since the beginning, it's the crowd who bang on about it, whilst diluting political RP to an episode of Dynasty that gave it a terrible image. The sons who act like juveniles, the daughters who act like princesses, random family members needing attention all day. The one character who can push storylines will be overwhelmed by in-house drama. These people aren't political roleplayers, they're a circus.

I knew many of the people roleplaying at ROIAF, it's not my own views but a collection of opinions from those who've been there. I always found it amusing that even their GBK roleplayers refused to marry(because bitches be crazy). And in the end, Sasi, who was right about ROIAF. The views I held, or the fantasy you were living.
User avatar
Sasi
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:16 am
SL Name: Sasi

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Sasi » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:22 pm

Tantus wrote:Why is this even under discussion?
Did you waste your sim(Kaelus)'s time and resources on Hochburg? Yes.
Did I waste my time there? No.
Tarnwald was in full swing when Hochburg opened, I saw their people, I stayed away.
Your definitions have failed you.

It was never a waste of time. This event, until one of the parties freak out because they were losing the war, had been a lot of fun. Every saturday, there was a battle, and every man in SL Gor who could fight, was welcome to join one of the armies, either as NPC, either as a paid mercenary. Between each battle, this war brought RP, was an opportunity for IC events (in all sims I have been part of as admin or co-owner, there was never an OOC event (except once, in Cyprianus, a tournament I had planned to kept ICly but one of the co-owners organized it in a skybox and opened it to women as well... I was pissed off).
But still, if I was not myself amazed with the way they RPed a Gorean character (but I'm biaised, being a BTB freak), they were not lifestylers.

Tantus wrote:I don't know Nero or who's alt he may be, when he roleplayed with me and then I saw the girls in his profile. I knew he was done. You don't make terrible decisions like those and walk away a free man.
There's no issue with NPC owners, I just think slave-characters in general should evolve away from the virginal long-term project, to something that's fun and slutty to encounter in a paga den. I would roleplay with that.

I don't know what are these terrible decisions you speak about. I heard about some OOC dramas but when it occured, I was already gone and not interested.

"virginal long-term project"? Are you insinuating that a slave player should have no project, no expectation of long-term RP, storyline...? Why should slave players have different expectations for their RP than those who play a free man or free woman?

Tantus wrote:Timing is important too, the environment isn't always ready for a new sim. I've been on admin teams and know their importance, I also see many sims faltered from having admins as unavailable as their sim owners. As to Illyros, the only consensus is some good roleplay was had, but briefly. I suppose a dedicated admin team could have helped you realise those short-mid term storylines.
I've not been part of an alliance where there wasn't conflict, war and even betrayals. The themes or the lack of anything you've participated in, isn't the experience of others. Rovere alliance, Cardonicus alliance, Tyros, Treve and Teslit, then Salerian Confedaration, Fina and Sais, Vonda alliance... Tarnwald came much later. BTB was already dead by then, we hoped to revive some interest. During which, I think that was the trial I defended you in.

You don't understand that Illyros has never been opened for the purpose of attracting the big SL Gor crowd. It was a project for those who wanted to play a character really authentic in regard to the Gorean culture. We didn't want the same crap you see everywhere: People whose character claimed a new home stone every time they joined a new city/village, people whose character has been a member of different castes, the improbable progenies of Tuchuk/Torvies etc, the exotic slaves with non sense skills, etc etc. The timing was of no importance, we knew that this project would only appeal to a minority. And the admin team was dedicated.
As for the sims you listed above, most of them were tea party, onlineisms, IC and OOC mixing, lame old school Gor sims. After Cyprianus, and before ORS, with friends, we travelled a lot, looking for a new place.

And no, you were absent the day where I have been dragged to this trial. I defended myself alone....! If I didn't end up into collar, this day, that was not because your active assistance.............! :D

Tantus wrote:Firstly your friends need to understand a couple of basics. An RP ban isn't an IC action, it's OOC.
When you respond by excluding them from your roleplay, it's respecting their wishes. This isn't crossing IC/OOC, it's called courtesy.
Now this story is changing from my supposedly bragging to multiple people in IMs, to some stray impressions being formed. As I've already noted, the alliance RP had begun about a month before Sais had RP banned us, I suppose your friends felt I could see the future too.
It's not difficult to store your SL logs, mine were routinely backed up along with everything else I send. I once had logs from multiple PCs, OSs and locations accessing a single folder. Until Linux interfered with the formating of my Windows' logs. Not cool.

Since these friends supposed you had launched this trade RP in order to piss off, OOCly a sim owner (Sais') in isolating him (because the close timing between these two events, the ban and the trade), I think they understand very well the concept of IC and OOC separation.
And if you expressed your satisfation at the idea of bothering Sais through this alliance RP that they couldn't join, definitely, you can't blame people for the impression you made. But as you said yourself, eh, it was just a bonus :)

And no, Tantus. Most people don't save their SL logs when they change PC. They are not very important files. We usually save our personal folders, our photos, but SL logs? They stay on the old hard drive...

Tantus wrote:For any guys who're struggling to find RP in Gor I'd advice them to go with a younger looking avatar and profile suggesting they're in their 20s. Free women will be all over it. That's just how it is.
In the north, over-sized avatars that hover to give them extra height are hot. I don't make this up, it's what gets men attention and they go for it. So yes, women are to blame!
Meanwhile, those of us with normal avatars had to work for our RP because I refuse to emulate Justin Bieber even if free women dig it.

Free women are all over men in SL Gor... As soon as one shows up on sim.... Sometimes, they jump in men's IMs. If the avatar is decent, it's sufficient.
Stop blaming women, men have the easiest part, they start with an advantage: Being a man in an R environment where women are the majority....

Tantus wrote:I've enjoyed the politics of roleplaying since the beginning, it's the crowd who bang on about it, whilst diluting political RP to an episode of Dynasty that gave it a terrible image. The sons who act like juveniles, the daughters who act like princesses, random family members needing attention all day. The one character who can push storylines will be overwhelmed by in-house drama. These people aren't political roleplayers, they're a circus.
I knew many of the people roleplaying at ROIAF, it's not my own views but a collection of opinions from those who've been there. I always found it amusing that even their GBK roleplayers refused to marry(because bitches be crazy).

I told you that it was not my conception of political RP... I dislike family RP. With the people I played, the sons and the daughters were pawns used to gain position and power. If a daughter was enslaved, she was disowned, she had brought dishonor in the house. We didn't play lovey dovey family RP where everyone loves everyone. If some day, I play again in a house, as a family member, I invite you to join. You definitely need to experience a new environment :D

Tantus wrote:And in the end, Sasi, who was right about ROIAF. The views I held, or the fantasy you were living.

Who was right about ROIAF...? :hrm: Oor and Anarch :mrgreen:
User avatar
Leah
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:14 pm
SL Name: Liara Edring
Role: Rebel
Owner: My Internet Connection
AkA: Lailah, Lia, Liara
Location: Somewhere in Eorzea
Contact:

Re: Tips for upcoming sims (cause I know they keep coming).

Postby Leah » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:47 pm

This argument is legit going in circles, but I do have to say, I don't understand why NPC ownership is such an issue?

I mean, if I'm able to function as a legal adult in the real world, why would anyone doubt that I could manage my own RP without someone overseeing it?
This isn't fucking Survivor. We aren't a tribe.

If I won't put up with an in-character owner trying to control my OOC life, what makes you think I'll put up with you trying to do that?

My Store: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/165499

Return to “General RP Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron