PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

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Tamar Luminos
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Tamar Luminos » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:52 pm

When I first read that, I took it to be IC rules and I was like, huh- that's not so bad. If it's IC only, to be roleplayed out and not OOC mandatory...
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
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Bassim
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Bassim » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:32 pm

Tamar Luminos wrote:When I first read that, I took it to be IC rules and I was like, huh- that's not so bad. If it's IC only, to be roleplayed out and not OOC mandatory...


It's listed in the same category as 'a slave's city app must be done', I'm pretty sure it's mandatory OOC.

Even on the small chance it isn't, you still have to do OOC things such as filling out NCs in order to escape IC consequences (fines, etc). That is a huge blurring of the lines.
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Oor
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Oor » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:38 am

Bassim wrote:
Tamar Luminos wrote:When I first read that, I took it to be IC rules and I was like, huh- that's not so bad. If it's IC only, to be roleplayed out and not OOC mandatory...


It's listed in the same category as 'a slave's city app must be done', I'm pretty sure it's mandatory OOC.

Even on the small chance it isn't, you still have to do OOC things such as filling out NCs in order to escape IC consequences (fines, etc). That is a huge blurring of the lines.


Not exactly. In GoT sims, for example, you'd have to prepare invitations for a dinner if you were holding one. Or respond to letters you receive IC, lest your character be considered rude (a big deal in noble circles). In modern sims you'd need to construct responses to SMS messages or emails. It is not in any way a hard and fast rule that preparing a notecard is a blurring of IC and OOC.
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Bassim » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:33 am

Oor wrote:
Bassim wrote:
Tamar Luminos wrote:When I first read that, I took it to be IC rules and I was like, huh- that's not so bad. If it's IC only, to be roleplayed out and not OOC mandatory...


It's listed in the same category as 'a slave's city app must be done', I'm pretty sure it's mandatory OOC.

Even on the small chance it isn't, you still have to do OOC things such as filling out NCs in order to escape IC consequences (fines, etc). That is a huge blurring of the lines.


Not exactly. In GoT sims, for example, you'd have to prepare invitations for a dinner if you were holding one. Or respond to letters you receive IC, lest your character be considered rude (a big deal in noble circles). In modern sims you'd need to construct responses to SMS messages or emails. It is not in any way a hard and fast rule that preparing a notecard is a blurring of IC and OOC.


The key word here is mandatory.
People should have the freedom to answer IC letters or communication either by emote (a quick /me answers the affirmative to the letter by an ornately and well written letter), in an IM, or local, or writing it out via NC, or informing the other player that he got a letter affirming his rsvp at a dinner.
No one should be forced to write a NC in order to not have negative consequences happen to them. It needs to be voluntary.


In any case, IC letters are very different than mandated IC NC forms. It indeed is a blending of OOC and IC to get at me just cause I don't want to fill out a shitty NC.
What if someone needed to RP having a complicated legal procedure done? Realistically it would be pages and pages long. Are you really going to expect people to fill out paperwork on a NC that consists of 100 questions and get at them ICly because they didn't take the time to fill it out, fining them for incomplete forms? Blend of IC and OOC.
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Sasi
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Sasi » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:45 am

Too, I can understand when you have to send a letter ICly that it's often better to write the content on a NC rather to fill your interlocutor's IMs....

But filling a NC for IC forms? No, waste of time. It's just a pain when you play a scribe or a physician, a large part of your RP time is spent to fill these NCs, just an OOC chores you have to repeat dozens of times. You should be able to emote about these papers, when needed. Plus, it's stupid to fill a NC with the exact description of a slave, when the girl will have left the sim 3 days later or changed the color of her eyes the next week because it suits better the typist's tastes...

And I agree with Bassim. If for example, my character, a freed slave emotes that she shows her release papers, papers confirming she is free and sealed by her ex owner, I don't see any reason to have this RP ignored because I didn't transfer a NC....
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Oor
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Oor » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:02 am

Mandatory would certainly be a key word, yes. If you'd said it. But the point is was responding to - which I quoted - was:

[...]you still have to do OOC things such as filling out NCs in order to escape IC consequences (fines, etc). That is a huge blurring of the lines


Sure, a quick "/me responds" might work in some - even many - cases, but sometimes it won't suffice. If your character needs to convey a lot of information through an IC communication, then you as the player will have to, in some capacity, be it through a longer and more explicit /me post, or an IM, or a document, have to put in the 'work' to laying that information down. If you don't, and there are logical ramifications your character's consequent failure to provide adequate IC information, then it's fair cop for those ramifications to occur.

It is not (to repeat the point of my post) a hard and fast rule that preparing a notecard is a blurring of IC and OOC.

What if someone needed to RP having a complicated legal procedure done? Realistically it would be pages and pages long. Are you really going to expect people to fill out paperwork on a NC that consists of 100 questions and get at them ICly because they didn't take the time to fill it out, fining them for incomplete forms? Blend of IC and OOC.


I would expect them to provide at least enough information that the story and its details could adequately be played out. That could be a document, or, as you suggested, a more elaborate post. And of course the level of detail needed is context-driven. If I'm a scribe dealing with a customer and our IC interaction is brief, our relationship based only on professional contact, a "/me hands over the documents, sealed and in order" might suffice. If on the other hand I'm a scribe dealing with his apprentice, and our relationship is more intricate and more apt to be affected by the document, I might go into a lot more detail.

There's nobody more opposed to forms for the sake of forms than me, trust me - but sometimes they can add to RP. I don't think that filling out an NC (or doing the almost identical work of putting all the information that would be on the NC into a post) is automatically a blurring of IC/OOC. That's all.
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Oor
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Oor » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:07 am

Sasi wrote: If for example, my character, a freed slave emotes that she shows her release papers, papers confirming she is free and sealed by her ex owner, I don't see any reason to have this RP ignored because I didn't transfer a NC....


You misunderstood my post, I think. I didn't suggest that RP should be ignored because a NC isn't transferred.

To make my point again:

Oor wrote:It is not in any way a hard and fast rule that preparing a notecard is a blurring of IC and OOC.


Which is basically another way of saying:

Sasi wrote:I can understand when you have to send a letter ICly that it's often better to write the content on a NC rather to fill your interlocutor's IMs...
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Sasi
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Sasi » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:38 am

Oor wrote:
Sasi wrote: If for example, my character, a freed slave emotes that she shows her release papers, papers confirming she is free and sealed by her ex owner, I don't see any reason to have this RP ignored because I didn't transfer a NC....


You misunderstood my post, I think. I didn't suggest that RP should be ignored because a NC isn't transferred.

To make my point again:

Oor wrote:It is not in any way a hard and fast rule that preparing a notecard is a blurring of IC and OOC.


Which is basically another way of saying:

Sasi wrote:I can understand when you have to send a letter ICly that it's often better to write the content on a NC rather to fill your interlocutor's IMs...


Oh no, I didn't think you suggested anything in this sense, it was only an argument I added to the whole subject. I have indeed no isse with notecards used as letter, but the long forms commonly used and justifying when you don't have any NC to transfer, to have your emotes ignored, is just lame. A point I wanted to add to my own arguments, in fact.
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Leah » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:42 am

BTW, in case people were not aware, Turia moved sims today. We have a new SLURL:

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/C ... 213/248/54

But we're all set up and the build is the same. :)
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Re: PRETTY, UP TO DATE Gor Sims???

Postby Bassim » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:18 am

I think NCs can add to the rp, sure. If it's voluntary.

However, I don't think anyone should be punished ICly for failing to fill out a NC form. I believe that is OOC griefing, to mandate players by recognizing only NC letters or NC paperwork as valid. Players should have the right to just assume it was done with a simple /me emote, including all relevant details. It might be long, it might be short. It might be so long that you might as well write a NC letter. But that is their prerogative, not the sims.

It's the equivalent of expecting slaves to RP out their chores, rather than assuming it done if they wanted to.

A lot of these NC paperwork is there to force you to rp mundane things with scribes and physicians just 'so they get some RP'. Ridiculous.

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