The Gorean ideal of beauty

Discussions about John Norman, and his books.

The gorean ideal of beauty is...

the same as our ideal of beauty.
1
2%
the same as our ideal of beauty.
1
2%
the same as the ideal of beauty in fashion.
0
No votes
the same as the ideal of beauty in fashion.
0
No votes
the same as the ideal of beauty in porn.
2
4%
the same as the ideal of beauty in porn.
2
4%
the same as the gentically universal ideal of beauty.
1
2%
the same as the gentically universal ideal of beauty.
1
2%
the same as that of Romans, vikings, feudal Japan,etc
2
4%
the same as that of Romans, vikings, feudal Japan,etc
2
4%
unique to Gor, it has no relation to ideals on earth.
6
12%
unique to Gor, it has no relation to ideals on earth.
6
12%
the same as John Lange's ideal of beauty.
12
23%
the same as John Lange's ideal of beauty.
12
23%
Other.
2
4%
Other.
2
4%
 
Total votes: 52
Legion
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:23 pm
SL Name: Magadhi bint Alim al-Salah
AkA: Mags

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Legion » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:14 am

I honestly like that the ideal of Gorean beauty would probably be similar to Torrid, Lane Bryant, and other "plus-sized" models. Pre-Raphaelite women would definitely have been seen as beautiful as they would be considered plus-sized today.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
"Man needs as much liberation as woman." - Osho
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Kaitlin » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:12 am

Legion wrote:I honestly like that the ideal of Gorean beauty would probably be similar to Torrid, Lane Bryant, and other "plus-sized" models. Pre-Raphaelite women would definitely have been seen as beautiful as they would be considered plus-sized today.

Prime Bbcode Spoiler Show Prime Bbcode Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


On this I disagree. The gorean ideal of beauty may not have been stick thin but they would be properly dieted and exercised so the "plus size" model type slave might only be present in the "Tahari tribes" where the men are said to have this preference. As I mentioned above...even in plus size models and porn stars there is a preference for a "long legged" girl or a tall woman.

Here are the measurements for Judy Thorton. Although she was small she was a long way from being a plus size model. I believe in gor it would have been all about proportions and frankly...the breast, ass, and hips...likely in a size 4-6 and petite/short. A plus size model would be double this size.

The auctioneer took my hair in his hand and, cruelly, bent me back, standing. “22 horts,” said he, indicating my breasts. “16 horts,” said he, slapping me on the belly. “22 horts,” said he, reaching across my body and placing his hand on my right hip, indicating the width of my body. These were my block measurements. I knew a master might keep me to such measurements, with the whip, if necessary. “Small,” said he, “but sweet, a delicacy, noble sirs, with promise.”
“Two tarsks,” called a man from the crowd.
“I hear two tarsks,” said the auctioneer.
It was true that I was not large, but I did not think I was unusually small. I was, in Earth measurements, some five feet four inches in height and weighed about one hundred and sixteen pounds. My figure though delicate, was in Earth measurements approximately 28-20-28.
...
The Belled Collar,” I heard, “bids one silver tarsk.”
There was silence in the hall.
“There is a bid of one silver tarsk,” said the auctioneer. I could tell he was pleased. I looked down, shuddering, my knees closely together. The recent bids had been by the agents of paga taverns.

(Slave Girl of Gor)


Here is another example of Doreen's (Dancer of Gor) block measurements


I had been here only since yesterday morning. I then heard my height and weight, given in Gorean measurements, thirty and a quarter Gorean stone and fifty-one horts, or approximately, in Earth measurements, one hundred and twenty-one pounds and five foot three and three quarters inches, and a large number of my other measurements being similarly recounted. These would be my “block measurements,” those which were mine as of now, on the date of my sale. Some masters will hold a girl to her block measurements, by the whip, if necessary. Others will insist on their improvement, under the penalties of a similar discipline, in one direction or another, depending on their own preferences. Other masters are quite lenient, or tolerant, at least within certain limits, pertaining to such measurements. Clothing sizes were not given, as there is little concern on Gor with a slave’s exact sizes in such matters. Most Gorean garments for female slaves are either loosely fitting, and drape, or they are pulled tight, sometimes strapped or tied about her, to reveal her. If it is of interest, however, and we are speaking of fixed-ring sizes, I would take a number-two wrist ring and a number-two ankle ring.
My collar size is eleven horts. These are average sizes.


Something else I forgot to add is that an ideal slave would have a “sweetly rounded belly” and not be harshly fit or “gym fit” which is at odds with the flat belly you would see in “porn stars” or the hustler magazine type female. Also being "short legged" was an attractive trait that wouldn't fit so I’m not sure that a gorean slave is the ideal beauty of most men. If it is I have no idea how they sell so many magazines. The closest I have come to being able to put an image to what I read in the books is a belly dancer.

Image

Image

Image

Or perhaps the "coke bottle" figure.
Last edited by Kaitlin on Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
User avatar
Mynerva
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:22 am
SL Name: *****

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Mynerva » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:15 am

Glaucon wrote:
I think that the fashion model ideal isn't really 'the ideal' for us, today (not for most men, certainly, probably not for most women - see the link to that article I posted in that other thread), but a peculiar ideal in it's own right, that dominates women's magazines and such.



I think you underestimate the power of those images the media puts out A LOT. There are so many....sooo many....very attractive women with great bodies who are constantly on diets to achieve that ideal of a size 0 or a size 1.

As for the pumped up breasts and inflated lips of porn stars? In my mind that is about as far away as it gets from what my image is of the perfect gorean slave when I read JN's books.
Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden.
Rosa Luxemburg
User avatar
Bara Mayako
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:36 pm
SL Name: Bara Mayako

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Bara Mayako » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:14 am

@Glaucon:

Just as an interesting point of information -- the picture of Raquel Welch is taken from the film "One Million Years BC", which was her breakthrough role, made in 1966, the year that Twiggy was named "The face of 1966" by the Daily Express and British Woman of the Year.
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Glaucon » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:43 pm

Mynerva wrote:
Glaucon wrote:
I think that the fashion model ideal isn't really 'the ideal' for us, today (not for most men, certainly, probably not for most women - see the link to that article I posted in that other thread), but a peculiar ideal in it's own right, that dominates women's magazines and such.



I think you underestimate the power of those images the media puts out A LOT. There are so many....sooo many....very attractive women with great bodies who are constantly on diets to achieve that ideal of a size 0 or a size 1.


I do not doubt it's power or significance, but, as that article (this one: http://www.femininebeauty.info/femininity-and-beauty
) claimed, I don't think it is really OUR ideal, though our ideal will be influenced by it, of course.

As for the pumped up breasts and inflated lips of porn stars? In my mind that is about as far away as it gets from what my image is of the perfect gorean slave when I read JN's books.


I think that typical 'porn' tends to capture the 'lower end' common denominator taste of men, and then often fails to do a good job at it. A lot of men (I guess, Norman included) don't particularly like the pumped-up breast and inflated lips look of porn models, but... at the same time, I think that men DO like large breasts and luscious lips, which is why models in that industry try for that look. It is not as if that particular industry is characterized by a lot of intelligent participants or a great deal of perfectionism and good taste.

@ Bara: Didn't know that, though I did know that it was from that movie. One of the posters here has another picture from that movie as her avi picture, even (and I suspect it may have 'inspired' the panther girl image, but I could be wrong, since I don't know the exact years when which book was published by heart).

But my point is really... two different beauty ideals can exist simultaniously. Jennifer Lopez was picked as 'sexiest' woman some years ago, but she didn't quite fufill the 'fashion model' requirments.
Perse
Posts: 211
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:10 am
SL Name: Perse

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Perse » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:29 pm

These ladies have the body type I imagine an 'ideal' Gorean slave would have:
Shakira!
Image
Jessica Gomes! (rawr)
Image
User avatar
Bara Mayako
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:36 pm
SL Name: Bara Mayako

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Bara Mayako » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:36 am

I would agree that physically both Jennifer Lopez and Shakira fit somewhat with what I imagine as the Gorean ideal of beauty. But both of them are very athletic, and in spite of how petite Shakira actually is (156 cm), when I read the passages where Norman describes the ease with which men physically dominate and manhandle women, I don't picture someone like them. I have no doubt that an Arnold Schwarzenegger type (when he was young) would be able to subdue Shakira, but I just don't see it being done with the ease with which the books describe it. When reading such passages, a frailer looking woman comes to mind. I remember seeing a film on the Tv where Jennifer Lopez plays a battered wife, and remember finding her lack of resistance to the beating somehow not credible (although in other films with other actresses I have not had that feeling).
User avatar
Mynerva
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:22 am
SL Name: *****

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Mynerva » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:06 am

Perse wrote:These ladies have the body type I imagine an 'ideal' Gorean slave would have:
Shakira!
Image
Jessica Gomes! (rawr)
Image



Exactly that! Perfect :clap:
Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden.
Rosa Luxemburg
User avatar
Consuelo
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:19 am
SL Name: Consuelo Albanese
Role: Kajira

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Consuelo » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:19 am

Bara Mayako wrote:I would agree that physically both Jennifer Lopez and Shakira fit somewhat with what I imagine as the Gorean ideal of beauty. But both of them are very athletic, and in spite of how petite Shakira actually is (156 cm), when I read the passages where Norman describes the ease with which men physically dominate and manhandle women, I don't picture someone like them. I have no doubt that an Arnold Schwarzenegger type (when he was young) would be able to subdue Shakira, but I just don't see it being done with the ease with which the books describe it. When reading such passages, a frailer looking woman comes to mind. I remember seeing a film on the Tv where Jennifer Lopez plays a battered wife, and remember finding her lack of resistance to the beating somehow not credible (although in other films with other actresses I have not had that feeling).


I would imagine that if a youthful Arnold smacked JLo upside the head she'd be rather easy to subdue afterward. Also, Gorean women are rather passive, it having been trained into them from birth, and Earth women are probably selected with that trait in mind. Since JN went to great lengths to emphasis how healthy Goreans are, an athletic woman might easily fit their ideal of beauty and still be easy to subdue due to their upbringing. I use the spirited huntress in Beasts of Gor as an example... once collared by her former prey she was instantly passive and compliant.
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
Steven Tyler
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Kaitlin » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:41 am

@Perse
Love the second picture of Jessica Gomez for sure as that "ideal" gorean slave! :clap:

The first with Shakira not so much or JLo since I'd have to agree with Bara...the "gym fit" look and flat toned abs do seem in contradiction to the descriptions in the books. Slave diet and exercises seem to be targeted at making slaves more flexible and sleek while maintaining their softness and curves to even include that natural soft belly bit all modern women hate.

“She has a bit more fluidity, more sensuality, in her body movement now,” he said. “She moves somewhat better than she did. Here are her exercises.” He thrust a sheet of paper to me. I looked at it. They were familiar exercises, slave-female exercises, designed to keep a girl supple, loose, vital, fit, for her master. “You are familiar with matters of diet?” he asked. “Yes,” I said. The diet of the slave girl was regulated with the same attention and care as that which a man of Earth would bestow on his prize hunting dogs, or otherwise esteemed domestic animals. Caloric intake was supervised with particular care.
(Tribesmen of Gor)


There is a great example of the training room used with ballet bars and musicians in one part of the room that I can't seem to grab ATM.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait

Return to “Chronicles of Counter Earth”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron