The Gorean ideal of beauty

Discussions about John Norman, and his books.

The gorean ideal of beauty is...

the same as our ideal of beauty.
1
2%
the same as our ideal of beauty.
1
2%
the same as the ideal of beauty in fashion.
0
No votes
the same as the ideal of beauty in fashion.
0
No votes
the same as the ideal of beauty in porn.
2
4%
the same as the ideal of beauty in porn.
2
4%
the same as the gentically universal ideal of beauty.
1
2%
the same as the gentically universal ideal of beauty.
1
2%
the same as that of Romans, vikings, feudal Japan,etc
2
4%
the same as that of Romans, vikings, feudal Japan,etc
2
4%
unique to Gor, it has no relation to ideals on earth.
6
12%
unique to Gor, it has no relation to ideals on earth.
6
12%
the same as John Lange's ideal of beauty.
12
23%
the same as John Lange's ideal of beauty.
12
23%
Other.
2
4%
Other.
2
4%
 
Total votes: 52
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Glaucon
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Glaucon » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:43 pm

Mynerva wrote:
Glaucon wrote:
I think that the fashion model ideal isn't really 'the ideal' for us, today (not for most men, certainly, probably not for most women - see the link to that article I posted in that other thread), but a peculiar ideal in it's own right, that dominates women's magazines and such.



I think you underestimate the power of those images the media puts out A LOT. There are so many....sooo many....very attractive women with great bodies who are constantly on diets to achieve that ideal of a size 0 or a size 1.


I do not doubt it's power or significance, but, as that article (this one: http://www.femininebeauty.info/femininity-and-beauty
) claimed, I don't think it is really OUR ideal, though our ideal will be influenced by it, of course.

As for the pumped up breasts and inflated lips of porn stars? In my mind that is about as far away as it gets from what my image is of the perfect gorean slave when I read JN's books.


I think that typical 'porn' tends to capture the 'lower end' common denominator taste of men, and then often fails to do a good job at it. A lot of men (I guess, Norman included) don't particularly like the pumped-up breast and inflated lips look of porn models, but... at the same time, I think that men DO like large breasts and luscious lips, which is why models in that industry try for that look. It is not as if that particular industry is characterized by a lot of intelligent participants or a great deal of perfectionism and good taste.

@ Bara: Didn't know that, though I did know that it was from that movie. One of the posters here has another picture from that movie as her avi picture, even (and I suspect it may have 'inspired' the panther girl image, but I could be wrong, since I don't know the exact years when which book was published by heart).

But my point is really... two different beauty ideals can exist simultaniously. Jennifer Lopez was picked as 'sexiest' woman some years ago, but she didn't quite fufill the 'fashion model' requirments.
Perse
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Perse » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:29 pm

These ladies have the body type I imagine an 'ideal' Gorean slave would have:
Shakira!
Image
Jessica Gomes! (rawr)
Image
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Bara Mayako
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Bara Mayako » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:36 am

I would agree that physically both Jennifer Lopez and Shakira fit somewhat with what I imagine as the Gorean ideal of beauty. But both of them are very athletic, and in spite of how petite Shakira actually is (156 cm), when I read the passages where Norman describes the ease with which men physically dominate and manhandle women, I don't picture someone like them. I have no doubt that an Arnold Schwarzenegger type (when he was young) would be able to subdue Shakira, but I just don't see it being done with the ease with which the books describe it. When reading such passages, a frailer looking woman comes to mind. I remember seeing a film on the Tv where Jennifer Lopez plays a battered wife, and remember finding her lack of resistance to the beating somehow not credible (although in other films with other actresses I have not had that feeling).
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Mynerva
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Mynerva » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:06 am

Perse wrote:These ladies have the body type I imagine an 'ideal' Gorean slave would have:
Shakira!
Image
Jessica Gomes! (rawr)
Image



Exactly that! Perfect :clap:
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Consuelo
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Consuelo » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:19 am

Bara Mayako wrote:I would agree that physically both Jennifer Lopez and Shakira fit somewhat with what I imagine as the Gorean ideal of beauty. But both of them are very athletic, and in spite of how petite Shakira actually is (156 cm), when I read the passages where Norman describes the ease with which men physically dominate and manhandle women, I don't picture someone like them. I have no doubt that an Arnold Schwarzenegger type (when he was young) would be able to subdue Shakira, but I just don't see it being done with the ease with which the books describe it. When reading such passages, a frailer looking woman comes to mind. I remember seeing a film on the Tv where Jennifer Lopez plays a battered wife, and remember finding her lack of resistance to the beating somehow not credible (although in other films with other actresses I have not had that feeling).


I would imagine that if a youthful Arnold smacked JLo upside the head she'd be rather easy to subdue afterward. Also, Gorean women are rather passive, it having been trained into them from birth, and Earth women are probably selected with that trait in mind. Since JN went to great lengths to emphasis how healthy Goreans are, an athletic woman might easily fit their ideal of beauty and still be easy to subdue due to their upbringing. I use the spirited huntress in Beasts of Gor as an example... once collared by her former prey she was instantly passive and compliant.
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Perse
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Perse » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:11 pm

Kaitlin wrote:@Perse
The first with Shakira not so much or JLo


I'd defo agree about JLo being too toned, and in that picture of Shakira she *looks* hard, or toned, but I think her torso is just overworked from all that dancing. Just like one's abs/biceps/whatevs look their hardest after a workout. Cuz her tummy usually looks soft and curved, like this!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUT5rEU6pqM
Perse
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Perse » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:46 pm

Kaitlin wrote:...but makes me wonder about something...if the belly dance type movements contribute to having that curved belly in addition to genetics. Every belly dancer I have seen has that.


I think it has to be. A friend I grew up with had a naturally athletic body when we were kids; the kind of body where she had a 'natural' six-pack without ever working out, and super toned arms. She began belly dancing and doing burlesque shows after college and lo and behold - a pooch. I've never really thought to ask her, but I'm gonna and I'll get back to you! I'm curious now too.
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Glaucon
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Glaucon » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Pretty much agreed with the posts above, except that I think the gorean slave would be a little more in accordance to the 'fit-look' than some of you think. A little bit, at least. After all, it is clear that they aren't allowed to be fat (generally speaking) and they do get training that can be straining. They aren't sitting on their asses all day. Plus, they may dance, as well. As for Shakira... ýes, she has a bit of arm-muscle. Maybe her build would be rather close to what I imagine a panther girl's to be (more that than Boris Vanlo's heavily muscled female Arnolds on the book cover).

And I agree... there is mention of that 'belly' thing. So, I guess not the 'ideal' belly that renders the belly into little more than a slight tube around the spine. Yet, at the same time, how large does a belly have to be to be called a belly? I don't think Norman was typically thinking about anything that we (except maybe people working in the modelling/fashion industry) would consider 'fat'.

All in all, though... even though it is clear that there is a difference between the most notable 'beauty ideal' and Gor's/Norman's, I still feel that the 'beauty' described in the books is more 20th century west than anything else (which is only to be expected, of course).
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Mynerva
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Mynerva » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:15 pm

Perse wrote:
I think it has to be. A friend I grew up with had a naturally athletic body when we were kids; the kind of body where she had a 'natural' six-pack without ever working out, and super toned arms. She began belly dancing and doing burlesque shows after college and lo and behold - a pooch. I've never really thought to ask her, but I'm gonna and I'll get back to you! I'm curious now too.



Maybe all that dancing made her very very hungry :teehee:
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Syndel
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Re: The Gorean ideal of beauty

Postby Syndel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:22 pm

Yep, belly dancing definitely makes a pooch appear.

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