Tantus wrote:It's very convenient to define RP etiquettes in a way which suits you and absolves you of any fault.
There is one RP etiquette, the same for everyone. You know, separate IC and OOC, take consequences for your IC actions, don't godmod, don't metagame, don't powergame, take posting turns.....
Tantus wrote:So I want to know, which committee is deciding who is or isn't a 'Lifestyler'. So far as I'm concerned when a person wants to bring a theme into their life, whether RL or online interactions in a non-roleplay setting, they can be considered lifestylers.
I don't expect that person to own a Texan ranch and stables filled with women to qualify as a lifestyler, it is the intention to implement a theme outside of roleplaying that makes you so.
I'm talking about those people, in SL, who label themselves by a set of misogynistic and poorly written sci-fi novels. Those who believe in the crap principles defended by Norman in his books, like all women are naturally submissive, real men are naturally dominant, women can only respect men who treat them harshly, men are superior, no woman should be a leader, there is no more honor on Earth but just wusses, blah blah blah.
I'm perfectly aware thatmost of these so-called RL Goreans don't even have a sub, lead nothing and bend to their boss every day, if not to their wife.
Tantus wrote:Now I'm going to shock you.
You have a slave girl character???
Tantus wrote: When men IM your slave-avatar with "kajira", it's opening a dialogue which many women will respond positively to. It's not something I was in to, but from the number of random slaves who used 'master' in my IMs, I can reason there's an active subculture of IM Play in Gor. And given everything else that's wrong with the place, a girl being called 'kajira' or men being called 'master' in IMs is hardly a huge deal.
Oh, that... Well, Tantus, guess what? I'm perfectly aware of that shit. And I think it's me who is going to shock you a little bit with my feelings about these people ...
I have a hard time at respecting these women who call "master" any guy who plays a free man in Gor, even if he is the last imbecile on Earth, with not even a dominant bone in all his person. For me, they are women who just don't respect themselves by the demeaning use of a title which should be earned by a dom from the sub who deserved to use it, in a relationship based on a mutual agreement.
The funny thing is that these wenches who want, OOC'ly, to behave like a Gorean slave and feel like one, will require to be respected (they forget that respect is not something owed to a kajira, in the books...) and will spit in your face if you refuse to abide by their personal agenda (like "please, don't call me mistress, you're not my sub").
Also, Tantus, there are men (and women) who will not accept to be called "master", they won't even feel specially flattered neither. Not a buge deal, sure. Still not a reason to encourage such a behavior, unless you label yourself a Gorean lifestyler.
But it becomes more a big deal when you're a woman who is not a lifestyler, just a role-player in SL Gor and is addressed as an inferior... When you IM me, you're talking to the typist, the real person. I expect being addressed with a basic respect. Being talked as if I were a slave is seldom my conception of basic respect. Usually, if a dude girl me, I just boy him. Their reactions are often very entertaining
Tantus wrote:Now you'll protest that SL Gor is meant to be about the ROLEPLAYING.
Well, when a sim labels itself "role play sim", it's rather the idea and purpose...
Tantus wrote:But I'm about to shock you again, with today's Top 15 'BTB' sims in SL Search.
Stop being so optimistic... In SL Gor, nothing can shock me, now, I'm jaded
Tantus wrote:SL Search of 'BTB sims wrote:1. Svago
4. Port Kar
5. Tabuk's Ford
6. Sardar Fair
For the sake of this thread I logged in to see the list and even I was astonished, to my personal criteria just 3 of those are Gorean Roleplaying sims, the other 12 are what I would class as Gorean Lifestyle sims. My decisions aren't based on the NCs or Sim Description which usually reads like:
[DARK GOR THEME, Hardcore Roleplay, Raids, Rape, Captivity, FORCED COLLAR, NO LIMITS YADDA YADDA]
But it's really just a companionship club with cuddling all day. So, I cam the sim, look at the players, their profiles and base my impression on their core crowd. And I can say each of those sims are populated by a group with Lifestyles leanings.
The lifestylers have taken over BTB and that isn't news, it happened years ago.
Occasionally a Gorean Roleplaying sim will come along, it fills up and then it bursts.
"for the sake of this thread"! I like people who engage in a forum discussion with such a diligence, motivation and heart!
More seriously, It definitely speaks volume about the state of SL Gor when a shitty sim which happily uses onlineisms and cheat on its traffic with a lot of bots (the animals spread in the sim, the always afk kajira...) is 3rd in the top list...
And SL Gor has always been a setting where players, as I said, don't distance themselves from their character, mix IC and OOC, and are kind of SL Gorean lifestylers as soon as they log in. But not everything is so bad. Now, you won't be ejected from a sim if you play a slave and don't use "titles" such as master / mistress in group chat and IMs, even if you suspect it pisses off many of your fellow Rpers, nor will you be banned from almost all sims if you removed your collar and left your master, because you had no more fun with him... In 2006 / 2007, that was a huge deal, people freaked out, you were seriously in troubles. Believe my experience when after we fight in OOC as I wanted to stop playing a slave and RP a panther girl, the guy who played my owner since 3 months, sold my char to a guy I couldn't stand, as a petty revenge (for real $SL). I refused to take this guy's collar (at this period, the master had the control of the collar, you were collared as well IC and OOC) and TPed out. Such a fun drama! But I discovered at this moment that I couldn't just create a new character and play the role I wanted because I was a known "runaway slave", lol lol lol!
See, SL Gor has evolved, after all, this situation couldn't happen anymore.
Like you, Tantus, I deeply dislike the dovey lovey companionship club, since nothing in the books support that. In the books, men find FW annoying and enjoy the presence of slave girls, fight for them, risk death for them, sometimes love them (in treating them even more harshly when it happens), warriors capture the FW of their enemies, enslave them, FM and FW intrigue and plot to improve their position in society, slave girls entice men, express their sexual needs (without being told "there is not just sex in Gor") competition with other girls, tend to be jealous of each other, fear FW like hell and hate them, FW are always described with no exception, as petty, vain and selfish creatures who hate slaves especially when they secretly envy them.
The dovey lovey family with sweet and noble heart FW who cuddles her FC's pleasure girl who herself loves her mistress, the male companion who fucks his FC like a slut and dozens of babies who are adult 2 hours after their birth, is the typical RP you will observe all over in SL Gor. I agree, it's definitely boring. (we can't always disagree, huh?)
I love the dark atmosphere of Gor, I like the political schemes and conflicts (when they are fairly played, with people able to accept to lose and who won't metagame), the sex (because it's still a major theme in the books), the violence, the dramas (IC), the confrontation of personalities, the development of my character, to know that the unexpected may happen, etc etc.
The two are related, when you only roleplay with your friends and within your clique, then you aren't distancing yourself from your character. Who may, without your OOC influence, have roleplayed with a whole different crowd of people. A character is a different person to you, they should carry none of your preferences into the game and that's actual separation.
I disagree, Tantus... Role-play is a game, when you fix a setting for this game, you're not RPing, you're not playing your character, you're not pretending to be your character. You are organizing your game. You're not mixing IC and OOC when you refuse to play with a player who metagames, godmods, whose RP is crap. You have the right to choose your RP partners, they are OOC decisions. It has nothing to do with the distanciation of your character. You are the real person who chooses to play with the real persons with whom you have affinities. You're not mixing IC and OOC when you don't want to play with a player who will ruin your fun.