SL Gor, 2018......

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Vector
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Vector » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:20 pm

That video was comedy gold! Keep 'em coming because my ribs are killing me from the lols.

:lol:
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Tantus
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Tantus » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:01 pm

That girl is hilarious, the 'be my mom' gets me everytime :shock:
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Sasi
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Sasi » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:25 pm

Tantus wrote:
The second clip is really the impression I've formed of 'slave sim owners'. Past experiences of being banned in Gor 8-)


But why would you form an impression of "slave sim owners"...? I got some bad experiences with male sim owners, freak controls who used their IC role of ubar to control other people's RP, some who mixed IC and OOC, who didn't even respect their own rules, treated some RPers like shit.

I even remember this sim owner (male) who ejected me because I told his slaver to stop metagaming my char and respect a posting order (the RP etiquette was part of the sim rules...). And every night, this sim owner logged 10 bots on a platform, + some animal avatar bots to boost his traffic. He did that in every sim he owned.

So, I could say that I formed an impression of free male sim owners from past experiences...

RL gender and IC role should never be considered when it comes to form an opinion about sim owners... And as for slave sim owners, erm, many have a slave + a FW character in the same sim... But well, it's a SL Gor thing, to consider people through the role they play... People in SL Gor have a very hard time at distancing the typist from the fictive role....
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Tantus » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:06 am

Sasi wrote:I even remember this sim owner (male) who ejected me because I told his slaver to stop metagaming my char and respect a posting order (the RP etiquette was part of the sim rules...). And every night, this sim owner logged 10 bots on a platform, + some animal avatar bots to boost his traffic. He did that in every sim he owned.


You roleplay on some suspect sims!


Sasi wrote:RL gender and IC role should never be considered when it comes to form an opinion about sim owners... And as for slave sim owners, erm, many have a slave + a FW character in the same sim... But well, it's a SL Gor thing, to consider people through the role they play... People in SL Gor have a very hard time at distancing the typist from the fictive role....



And the strange thing about SL is, people do behave differently depending on the avatar they're on.

In the experience I've had of being banned from BTB sims, slave-sim-owners and male-sim-owners are equally idiotic. Free-women-sim-owners were the least problematic, they understood some compromises must be made to run a successful sim.

Male-sim-owners. A certain incarnation of Treve back in 2009 normalized cheating in SL Gor, it happened before too, but this took it to the level of every mod being made to support a whiny-sim-owner through his every tantrum. The repercussions went beyond his sim, as other cities started calling invalidations on a whim because if he can do it, why can't they? And so it finally took hold in GE too. Believe it or not, GE was once an immersive roleplaying experience.

In those days raiding and raging went hand in hand, you're deep in your enemy's camp, downing people. They're spamming your IMs with "MOTHERFUCKER", "FUCKING CHEATER". It's rude to ignore IMs so I would pause during the raid and type back "FUCKING MORONS" and so on. It sounds silly now but raiding+raging is a potent combination for late-night entertainment.

That fun ended when male-sim-owners would spam you with abuse, and he would be like "SAY SOMETHING TO ME, SAY SOMETHING TO ME". And you know where it's going, but you'd tell him you're coming to rape him and his sons. And you'd be ejected from the raid, your sim would be banned. Then you'd find a nice mod like Pye and she'd go and smooth things out. I couldn't count how many times she fixed things for us, but the point is, male-sim-owners turned Gor into a complete cowardfest.

Slave-sim-owners generally supported the idiocy on their sim by entering their momma-bear-mode, like you can see in that clip. And it's when they say, "the masters on my sim are the most honourable in Gor, they say you cheated so your sim is banned." That you want to kill them all.

Freewomen-sim-owners can be a hindrance to RP too, but some of the better managed sims were run by FW.
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Sasi » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:37 pm

Actually, see, Tantus, I think that the problem about Gor sim owners are not about the role they play, but about their ability to separate IC and OOC and distance themselves from their role.

I admit that I have never been impressed by the maturity and intelligence of those slave rpers who mix IC and OOC. Momma bear mom, yes, but worse, they tend to favor men in their sims, especially the idiots who really believe they are real masters of Gor (I can't laugh enough at the face of those pathetic and ridiculous dudes).

But when the sim owner RP a slave, but doesn't mix IC and OOC, distance herself from her character she considers to be fictive, there is no problem (believe my experience).

And don't forget that many RL women, in SL Gor, sim owner or not, play both slave and FW characters, in using an alt :)

But a sim owner, whatever their RL gender and character, will never do a great job in owning a sim, if they mix IC and OOC and forget they are not their character, that Gor is a fiction, that they are not Gorean themselvesbut only role players, writing fictive stories.
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Tantus » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:02 am

Everyone crosses IC/OOC.

Even 'detached' sim owners have an agenda, they want to see their sim thriving with a happy, content population. During IC roleplay they will favour certain characters who are helpful to the running of their sim(OOC friends and mods), over those strangers who seem toxic to the community.

OOC impressions influence your IC interactions.

Maybe you are above it and are SL's only pure unicorn. :thumbup:
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Sasi » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:30 am

I'm not talking about this kind of IC/OOC crossing. I'm speaking about the people who, in SL Gor, are unable to distance themselves from their character, in the sense when they consider they are their character, behave in OOC as if they were their character, as if they were Goreans, and in OOC, impose even the Gorean values and principles upon other RPers.

I don't favor certain characters for OOC reasons. When I ran sims, I treated the same way, slaves and free persons players. It is exact that I recognize the contribution of some players will be more important, if they lead stories, write them, if they are part of the OOC team. It's normal. But it doesn't allow these people to be over the rules and break the RP etiquette in RP, or treat other players like shit. If the typist of a key character godmods, well, same treatment than for any other rper (else, be prepared for more OOC troubles with your entire player base)
I have been lucky enough to co-own or admin a sim with mature people.

And if my OOC impressions could influence my IC actions directed toward some RPer's characters in a negative way, I will just avoid to play with these people. SL-Gor is a game, don't you prefer to play a game with people you appreciate...?

At the end, I never forget that I'm not my characters, they are not an extension of me, especially when the real "me" despises the Gorean culture and is feminist (which simply means that I believe in social, political, legal and economic rights for women equal to those of men).
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Tantus » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:17 am

Those people are Lifestylers, they aren't crossing IC/OOC, just avoid them outright as they're easily spotted.

Sasi wrote:And if my OOC impressions could influence my IC actions directed toward some RPer's characters in a negative way, I will just avoid to play with these people. SL-Gor is a game, don't you prefer to play a game with people you appreciate...?


My own method is to IC'ly avoid those known as lifestylers, time-wasters or otherwise irrelevant to my character's goals for the week. But in avoiding them without IC'ly getting to know them, I can acknowledge I am crossing OOC knowledge with IC inaction. Too, I have read profiles and noted a character is of a particular Caste, location or serves a certain purpose. Then I will actively seek them out across the sim and strike up a conversation. That is metagaming and crossing IC/OOC. But I have done so because it serves a purpose and brings us RP. I imagine others subconsciously do so too, they just don't acknowledge they're metagaming when it's done towards a positive outcome for both parties.

But I'm sure you never initiate meetings in this way, or arrange to meet an OOC friend in an IC place where you're both strangers. Because you're a unicorn!
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Sasi » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:55 pm

No Tantus, they are not RL lifestylers. They do not have a Gorean experience in real life. They only behave like Goreans, all the time, IC/OOC, in SL. And they push their SL lifestyle on others, they impose it, they will treat you according to the role you play. Often like a second class person when you play a slave, with less rights than other RPers.

And stop confusing the mixing of IC and OOC with the game resources and tools. There is no IC/OOC mixing when you choose your game partners. In any game, you have this right. The role-play is a game, it's perfectly normal to play with people with whom you have affinities, who sound interesting.

It's not an OOC/IC crossing neither when you prepare a setting for the game.

Don't pretend you don't understand my point. The IC/OOC mixing, in role play, is a problem when people stop distancing themselves from their character. And in SL Gor, it's kind of a norm.
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Re: SL Gor, 2018......

Postby Tantus » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:51 am

It's very convenient to define RP etiquettes in a way which suits you and absolves you of any fault.

So I want to know, which committee is deciding who is or isn't a 'Lifestyler'. So far as I'm concerned when a person wants to bring a theme into their life, whether RL or online interactions in a non-roleplay setting, they can be considered lifestylers.

I don't expect that person to own a Texan ranch and stables filled with women to qualify as a lifestyler, it is the intention to implement a theme outside of roleplaying that makes you so.


Now I'm going to shock you. When men IM your slave-avatar with "kajira", it's opening a dialogue which many women will respond positively to. It's not something I was in to, but from the number of random slaves who used 'master' in my IMs, I can reason there's an active subculture of IM Play in Gor. And given everything else that's wrong with the place, a girl being called 'kajira' or men being called 'master' in IMs is hardly a huge deal.

Now you'll protest that SL Gor is meant to be about the ROLEPLAYING. But I'm about to shock you again, with today's Top 15 'BTB' sims in SL Search.

SL Search of 'BTB sims wrote:1. Svago
2. Blodfjellet
3. Tor
4. Port Kar
5. Tabuk's Ford
6. Sardar Fair

7. Treve
8. Sais
9. Olni

10. Njordheim
11. Genesian
12. Tetrapoli
13. Ianda
14. Runefells

15. Koroba


For the sake of this thread I logged in to see the list and even I was astonished, to my personal criteria just 3 of those are Gorean Roleplaying sims, the other 12 are what I would class as Gorean Lifestyle sims. My decisions aren't based on the NCs or Sim Description which usually reads like:

[DARK GOR THEME, Hardcore Roleplay, Raids, Rape, Captivity, FORCED COLLAR, NO LIMITS YADDA YADDA]

But it's really just a companionship club with cuddling all day. So, I cam the sim, look at the players, their profiles and base my impression on their core crowd. And I can say each of those sims are populated by a group with Lifestyles leanings.

The lifestylers have taken over BTB and that isn't news, it happened years ago.

Occasionally a Gorean Roleplaying sim will come along, it fills up and then it bursts.

Sasi wrote:And stop confusing the mixing of IC and OOC with the game resources and tools. There is no IC/OOC mixing when you choose your game partners. In any game, you have this right. The role-play is a game, it's perfectly normal to play with people with whom you have affinities, who sound interesting.

Don't pretend you don't understand my point. The IC/OOC mixing, in role play, is a problem when people stop distancing themselves from their character. And in SL Gor, it's kind of a norm.


The two are related, when you only roleplay with your friends and within your clique, then you aren't distancing yourself from your character. Who may, without your OOC influence, have roleplayed with a whole different crowd of people. A character is a different person to you, they should carry none of your preferences into the game and that's actual separation.

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