The new makeover thread

A place to discuss what works best, looks best, and loads best when it comes to the world of Bodies and Clothing.
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Sasi
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Sasi » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:51 am

Mesh heads look far much better, actually, than system heads. Need to convince yourself? Just compare the eyes, nose and mouth on both mesh heads and system heads. The ugly shadows, the lack of definition, the cut edges...

And no, with all the different heads (just Catwa propose 24 different models for women and I would love more choice for men), with all the skin appliers and makeup appliers, even the possibility to make your own makeup, you don't look more like a clone than before with the system heads and some well popular skins that make all those who wore them look like sisters or brothers.

Look at these faces:

Image

Do you think they look so different from each other? Me no... And what did you say, already, about "botox lips"m hmmm? Also, the windlight erased all the shadows, else, these faces would just be awful.

As for mesh heads, you have styles for all tastes, and I don't see more doll / baby faces with the mesh heads than before with the system heads, actually.

It's true, of course, that someone who is already not good at making a good appearance on a system head, will still look not much attractive with a mesh head. When your taste sucks, a mesh head will not improve it much. But if a head looks too large for the body (and I didn't notice this), it's simple, you have only to resize the head, in moving the right slider on the shape board, as you would do with a system head.

This is my avatar face, it looks far better than with a system head:

Image

Also, no real ugly shadows on the face when the windlights are not very great... (I don't always use mine, unless the sim has one which is really dark).

Not to mention the expressions, too (Catwa offers many options), so great for photos or... Sex scenes :mrgreen:

Plus, the Bento project will definitely make the system heads totally outdated. Mesh head designers are already releasing Bento compatible heads.

Anyway, at the end, mesh heads vs system heads, it's the difference between high definition and low definition. (system heads are low polygons, after all).
Qingwen
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Qingwen » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:04 am

I'm still on the fence about mesh heads. I agree for modeling/photo purposes a mesh head is useful for the expressions. But a good skin can be just as nice for everyday RP use, if you don't care to drop 3k on a mesh head. eh, in Gor most people will just be camming your boobs anyway ;)
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Oor
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Oor » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:10 am

Sasi wrote:Not to mention the expressions, too [...] great for [...] Sex scenes :mrgreen:


True.

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Tamar Luminos
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Tamar Luminos » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:42 pm

I've converted over to total mesh, head to toe, have been for months now. I actually just boxed up all my system layer skins, clothes, makeup/tattoos to archive because I've been wearing exclusively mesh for so long. I have a few mesh heads, a LOGO, a couple of Catwa's, and a Lelutka (my current fave). Just got a photo session with Strawberry Singh (squee!) and here's what my Lelutka head and Maitreya bod look like (cyberpunk character playing in Remnants of Earth).

Image
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Glaucon
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Glaucon » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:08 pm

While some fair points are made above, I have to politely disagree. I mean... the pictures above look very good, but... well, I do immediately recognize the Lelutka chin I meantioned on Tamar's otherwise awesome picture.

Let me just focus on the male ones.

There is this guy:

Image

Seen him around? I bet you have. He looks a bit like that actor that plays the Punisher in that Marvel TV series. He is all over in SL.

And then we got him:

Image

And here he is again, after a less-gay make-over and not-shaving for a while:

Image

And here, after having gone all hipster:

Image

And here, dressed up as Mr. T.

Image

And here, after he became a punk emo goth banker:

Image

Sure, sure. You might argue that there are other heads/faces around. But the thing is that there will generally be a few that are the most popular. And with very limited customization of the shape possible, you are going to see a lot of identical faces.

You might argue that this is also the case with mesh bodies. I would disagree. Mesh bodies tend to be quite customizable, as they respond to shape sliders (mostly). And also, humans aren't triggered to 'recognize' people by their bodies (not even by their tits). We use faces for that.

You might argue (as I think Sassi more or less did) that the default mesh head is just ONE head, while the mesh heads at least provide several. Technically true. But the thing is that the default mesh head responds to those all-important sliders, so it can get the required individual look. And there are many skins to choose from, which also makes a significant difference. And a little 'customization' does matter, when it comes to faces. Of course, in spite of that, some people still managed to look very much alike, with system heads, as I guess her picture showed. Sure. So, it is hardly surprising that there would be even more of this sameness now.

I know it is an old complaint: Mesh heads would cause everyone to look like clones. Guess what? Look around in SL. And see that, at the moment, that prediction came true, kinda. With guys heads, especially, but I am also noticing it with the galls, more and more.

The whole project Bento thing might make a big difference there, of course. Because, at least in theory, those heads would be able to respond to the system sliders and all the new bones. If the creators bother with it, at least.
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Oor
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Oor » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:21 pm

Glaucon wrote:The whole project Bento thing might make a big difference there, of course. Because, at least in theory, those heads would be able to respond to the system sliders and all the new bones. If the creators bother with it, at least.


They already are.

Edit: At the moment its just a case of waiting for third party viewers to catch up and release their Bento-enabled versions, so that they're used widely enough that Bento mesh parts don't look like amorphous blobs to most people. Then, I think most people will use Bento heads. And hands, because they're pretty cool.

And creators (Catwa, at least) are scripting their Bento heads so the same appliers as worked with their non-Bento head will work with them, so there will already be a lot of variety on the market in terms of skins.

I do agree that current non-Bento mesh heads can look clone-ish. I've seen a few slightly different versions of "me" running around since I started using them. But people generally make SUCH a hash job of the regular avatar head that I'd rather look at bad (but pretty) clones!

There is absolutely an issue right now with customisation, though. Going from 100 tattoo layers to 1, especially if you enjoy making your avatar unique /and/ are not very good at Photoshop, is a pain in the ass.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:08 pm

The fact they focused on bringing out "Bento" as a mesh bodyparts system kinda acknowledges the fact that there was an issue with clones.

I disagree that mesh heads -always- look better than system heads though. I've seen plenty examples of people making unique and pretty heads with system heads. (And /some/ mesh heads aren't very attractive imo).

As a guy, there isn't enough variety in meshheads yet, but hopefully Bento will fix this ASAP.
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Tamar Luminos » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:05 pm

Glaucon wrote:While some fair points are made above, I have to politely disagree. I mean... the pictures above look very good, but... well, I do immediately recognize the Lelutka chin I meantioned on Tamar's otherwise awesome picture.

Let me just focus on the male ones.

There is this guy:

Image

Seen him around? I bet you have. He looks a bit like that actor that plays the Punisher in that Marvel TV series. He is all over in SL.

And then we got him:

Image

And here he is again, after a less-gay make-over and not-shaving for a while:

Image

And here, after having gone all hipster:

Image

And here, dressed up as Mr. T.

Image

And here, after he became a punk emo goth banker:

Image

Sure, sure. You might argue that there are other heads/faces around. But the thing is that there will generally be a few that are the most popular. And with very limited customization of the shape possible, you are going to see a lot of identical faces.

You might argue that this is also the case with mesh bodies. I would disagree. Mesh bodies tend to be quite customizable, as they respond to shape sliders (mostly). And also, humans aren't triggered to 'recognize' people by their bodies (not even by their tits). We use faces for that.

You might argue (as I think Sassi more or less did) that the default mesh head is just ONE head, while the mesh heads at least provide several. Technically true. But the thing is that the default mesh head responds to those all-important sliders, so it can get the required individual look. And there are many skins to choose from, which also makes a significant difference. And a little 'customization' does matter, when it comes to faces. Of course, in spite of that, some people still managed to look very much alike, with system heads, as I guess her picture showed. Sure. So, it is hardly surprising that there would be even more of this sameness now.

I know it is an old complaint: Mesh heads would cause everyone to look like clones. Guess what? Look around in SL. And see that, at the moment, that prediction came true, kinda. With guys heads, especially, but I am also noticing it with the galls, more and more.

The whole project Bento thing might make a big difference there, of course. Because, at least in theory, those heads would be able to respond to the system sliders and all the new bones. If the creators bother with it, at least.


I have seen so many of the gay and hipster guys in those pics in Gor sims...in fact most of the guys I see on Gor sims these days look like one of those 2! That's really funny now that you posted those pics and I recognized them. lol I hadn't realized how same-ey most of the guy av's had gotten.
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
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Sasi
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby Sasi » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:26 pm

There is less choice of mesh heads for men, sadly.

But I disagree with the mesh heads being responsible for the clone issue. It has always existed with the system head.

I'm sorry, but for me, people wearing Glam Affair, Belleza, Redgrave, Aeros or LAQ skins on a system head, for example, tend to look like siblings. And when a skin is popular you can see your clone everywhere if you bought it.

Quick example:
Image

As for Lelutka, I see no issue with the chin, more one with the bridge of the nose, the part between the eyes, or the bottom of the forehead, but I see nothing wrong with the chin (see pic). The heads with a chin which truly sucks, for me, are some heads from LOGO. I really dislike their receding chin.

Image
On this pic (Lelutka), you see well the difference of definition... So, yes, mesh heads look far better.

But women, definitely, have far more choices than men, not to mention the many appliers / makeup events with dozens of new skins and makeups released each month.
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DarbyDollinger
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Re: The new makeover thread

Postby DarbyDollinger » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:39 am

Avatars are a reflection of people's personality, or lack thereof. I'd rather an avatar that was interesting than a well-defined clone.

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