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Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:28 pm
by Elle Couerblanc
Either am I super tired or this thread is really confusing. There was like a 6 month gap between posts? I...don't...understand.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:08 pm
by Sasi
Actually, Serene, I don't see anything which could make you state that some people here, on -this- forum, don't separate this OOC forum from IC RP.... Quotes, maybe?

And there are para-rpers who can be quite annoying and boring in RP. But I never saw the doormats just interested in experiencing some D/S experience through chores and serves RP, addressing people with titles in OOC and the boring dudes and fake doms they attract, be creative and be even able to create a Gorean environment.

@Elle: Targus replied to Sabina who accused him, a few months ago, of having used her textures without her permission. He just discovered this thread and corrected her affirmations since they damaged his reputation.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 1:53 am
by Oor
Elle Couerblanc wrote:Either am I super tired or this thread is really confusing. There was like a 6 month gap between posts? I...don't...understand.


Shhhh. Let it happen.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:21 am
by Oor
Sasi wrote:@Elle: Targus replied to Sabina who accused him, a few months ago, of having used her textures without her permission. He just discovered this thread and corrected her affirmations since they damaged his reputation.


So Targus had the correct license to modify and use the texture in derivative works? Or he didn't and used it illegally? Was it creative commons already? Did the license belong to Sabina? Did Sabina (illegally) pass a texture for which she had purchased a license to someone who was not in possession of the license?

I mean it seems to me like neither of them have had much regard for whoever the real creator of the texture is, if the texture is under license at all, so coming here to argue who was most illegal seems daft.

Like, if your best defense to the allegation "you stole a texture" is "well someone else stole it first," you're on shaky ground and you might wanna get yourself down from that high horse before it takes a stumble - and so might the person who gave you the texture in the first place, if they weren't in possession of the correct license to permit that transfer to happen legally. Targus says of Sabina "if you can prove you created the texture yourself, I'll pay you!" ... That's not how licensing works. It's up to the individual using the texture to ensure they have the correct license to allow them to do so before they use it(though culpability for distribution also remains with whoever handed it out).

It's all fun and games until the texture's actual creator starts filing DMCAs and having builds taken down.

To be clear, nobody here said Targus was a shit builder - nobody said anything but absolutely positive things about the quality of Targus' build, as far as I can tell. The issue brought up here was Targus' willingness to modify and use textures off-license, and nothing posted here - by him or anyone else - has suggested that's not the case.

Ultimately, you can write a million essays to defend yourself, but if none of them state with clarity "I ensured that I had met all license requirements before using this texture," then you're not really saying anything to help yourself. In terms of reputation reparation, an "oops, my bad, it won't happen again," would have been better.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:41 am
by Manon Seid
Everything Oor said!

Would be interesting to hear where that texture you seem to fight over came from in the first place?

And cgtextures.com had the last time i checked actually put directly in their license that their textures are NOT permitted to be used in Second Life. They changed name to Textures.com "recently" and their ToS states:

2.2 You are not permitted to:
....
h) use Photos in Second Life or any other Linden Lab product or service;


Now mind you it was not always like this - they changed their license when Second Life changed theirs about everything uploaded to SL being Lindens property to be distributed as they saw fit in Second Life and beyond. So it's possible Targus has the legal textures from cgtextures.com from back before the license was changed - i would not know - just stating how things are with that ressource now.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:47 am
by SaltySalty
Oor wrote:
Sasi wrote:@Elle: Targus replied to Sabina who accused him, a few months ago, of having used her textures without her permission. He just discovered this thread and corrected her affirmations since they damaged his reputation.


So Targus had the correct license to modify and use the texture in derivative works? Or he didn't and used it illegally? Was it creative commons already? Did the license belong to Sabina? Did Sabina (illegally) pass a texture for which she had purchased a license to someone who was not in possession of the license?

I mean it seems to me like neither of them have had much regard for whoever the real creator of the texture is, if the texture is under license at all, so coming here to argue who was most illegal seems daft.

Like, if your best defense to the allegation "you stole a texture" is "well someone else stole it first," you're on shaky ground and you might wanna get yourself down from that high horse before it takes a stumble - and so might the person who gave you the texture in the first place, if they weren't in possession of the correct license to permit that transfer to happen legally. Targus says of Sabina "if you can prove you created the texture yourself, I'll pay you!" ... That's not how licensing works. It's up to the individual using the texture to ensure they have the correct license to allow them to do so before they use it(though culpability for distribution also remains with whoever handed it out).

It's all fun and games until the texture's actual creator starts filing DMCAs and having builds taken down.

To be clear, nobody here said Targus was a shit builder - nobody said anything but absolutely positive things about the quality of Targus' build, as far as I can tell. The issue brought up here was Targus' willingness to modify and use textures off-license, and nothing posted here - by him or anyone else - has suggested that's not the case.

Ultimately, you can write a million essays to defend yourself, but if none of them state with clarity "I ensured that I had met all license requirements before using this texture," then you're not really saying anything to help yourself. In terms of reputation reparation, an "oops, my bad, it won't happen again," would have been better.


That’s all great information and if you can tell me how the average casual SL user is suppose to go about finding out who the actual creator of a texture is who hand painted it from scratch or proper licensing procedure, then I would glady go about doing so, preferably directly or without you paraphrasing my original letter incorrectly and shitting on what I wrote which was a valid defense of things said about me besides the issue of the texture itself. I did not come here to argue who was most illegal, I came here to set the record straight about the circumstances that Sabina described, which involved not just the texture alone.

I have made no profit from that texture, have not sold or transferred any build using that texture, and have not distributed that texture so if beyond that I am still out of bounds, then someone can come to me directly and let me know whatever I need to do to make things straight, which is what should have happened in the first place. Instead, someone decided to wait for my work to be mentioned on a public forum and make accusations without themselves ensuring they had met the license requirements to have given me that texture in the first place, yet I’m the only one who’s suppose to say “oops, my bad, it won’t happen again” to make things better?

Yes, nobody said I was shit builder, but somebody did write something about me behind my back that people took at face value without me able to defend myself. Ultimately, you can write the book on texture licensing law, but the fact remains, Sabina never confronted me directly regarding her issues and give me the opportunity to amend the situation. As I said in my letter, it would have been as simple as someone telling me I was doing something wrong and I would have stopped immediately and followed whatever steps necessary to make things straight. Instead, she chose to post to a public forum accusations that started a chain of subsequent posts lambasting my name and my work after I legitimately worked hard on something.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:43 pm
by Sasi
Oor wrote:
Sasi wrote:@Elle: Targus replied to Sabina who accused him, a few months ago, of having used her textures without her permission. He just discovered this thread and corrected her affirmations since they damaged his reputation.


So Targus had the correct license to modify and use the texture in derivative works? Or he didn't and used it illegally? Was it creative commons already? Did the license belong to Sabina? Did Sabina (illegally) pass a texture for which she had purchased a license to someone who was not in possession of the license?

I mean it seems to me like neither of them have had much regard for whoever the real creator of the texture is, if the texture is under license at all, so coming here to argue who was most illegal seems daft.

Like, if your best defense to the allegation "you stole a texture" is "well someone else stole it first," you're on shaky ground and you might wanna get yourself down from that high horse before it takes a stumble - and so might the person who gave you the texture in the first place, if they weren't in possession of the correct license to permit that transfer to happen legally. Targus says of Sabina "if you can prove you created the texture yourself, I'll pay you!" ... That's not how licensing works. It's up to the individual using the texture to ensure they have the correct license to allow them to do so before they use it(though culpability for distribution also remains with whoever handed it out).

It's all fun and games until the texture's actual creator starts filing DMCAs and having builds taken down.

To be clear, nobody here said Targus was a shit builder - nobody said anything but absolutely positive things about the quality of Targus' build, as far as I can tell. The issue brought up here was Targus' willingness to modify and use textures off-license, and nothing posted here - by him or anyone else - has suggested that's not the case.

Ultimately, you can write a million essays to defend yourself, but if none of them state with clarity "I ensured that I had met all license requirements before using this texture," then you're not really saying anything to help yourself. In terms of reputation reparation, an "oops, my bad, it won't happen again," would have been better.


Well, actually, my comment only said that Targus corrected Sabina's claim about a texture he would have stolen from her.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:00 pm
by Harlequin
Man, this is a garbage fire. I love it. And I won't even do a point by point return on what Salty McSalty Pants is saying, other than to say that if you're being paid for a job, even if you aren't selling the items themselves, it's not a bad idea to know if you're using stuff you should be using.

It's like being paid to make architecture for a game, using random textures downloaded off of Google Image Search. You sorta don't do that.

So feel free to be defensive, and a tool (Though builders are supposed to use tools, not be them) but "everyone else does it" and "I'm too lazy to check" are not really good defenses.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:40 pm
by SaltySalty
Harlequin wrote:Man, this is a garbage fire. I love it. And I won't even do a point by point return on what Salty McSalty Pants is saying, other than to say that if you're being paid for a job, even if you aren't selling the items themselves, it's not a bad idea to know if you're using stuff you should be using.

It's like being paid to make architecture for a game, using random textures downloaded off of Google Image Search. You sorta don't do that.

So feel free to be defensive, and a tool (Though builders are supposed to use tools, not be them) but "everyone else does it" and "I'm too lazy to check" are not really good defenses.


I’ll do everyone a favor and take my exit since this has degraded into name calling, which I never did but I’ll take being a tool for being defensive if I come to find I’m being trashed behind my back over whatever you all (only the ones who still don’t seem to get that it wasn’t right for me to be talked about behind my back in the first place here) would like to consider yourselves. But to all who would like to continue picking apart anything I said here, do me a favor and at least not put words in my mouth that I never said. “everyone else does it?”, “I’m too lazy too check?” are not really good responses when number one, I never said either, and two, it’s clear you’re too lazy to check what I even said in the first place.

In the end Sabina got what she wanted, the thread went for months with no one fact checking and anybody who ever read it at face value made up their mind about me then and there. It doesn’t make a difference to me, but if I see that I’m being talked about unfairly, I’m not gonna let it slide without me at least offering my side to the story, which was all I set out to do. Did I burn some people in the process? Sure, but tell me who wouldn’t be angry to find out hours of work gets trashed over things said that aren’t all true. I’ve said enough of what I wanted so feel free to let this garbage fire continue to burn.

Re: The Empire of Ar- First Impressions

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:32 pm
by serene mistwood
Sasi wrote:Actually, Serene, I don't see anything which could make you state that some people here, on -this- forum, don't separate this OOC forum from IC RP.... Quotes, maybe?


I never specifically stated that people here, on -this- forum don't seperate OOC forum from IC RP? Guilty conscience pricking you Sasi? ( Although that doesn't of course mean I don't believe that, because I do, obviously )

I was responding to Tamar's old post on the thread revived.

Tamar Luminos wrote:
Owner's apparently nursed a grudge against me for my posts on a previous thread about his previous incarnation of Ar and reminded me tonight by linking me to the offending thread:

http://www.goreanforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=8425&start=140 if anyone's curious.

I didn't think I said anything particularly offensive, and had pretty much forgotten about it but apparently he had not. Not sure why he had to tap dance around the issue instead of just IM'ing me to tell me my app was denied or even putting me on a ban list, but oh wells. Told me I could roleplay there but that I couldn't join the group.


What Tamar (or anyone) states on an OOC discussion forum here (or anywhere else) should not be used against them in an application to join a sim or OOC group inworld, at least not by mature, balanced, mentally stable adults able to seperate IC from OOC in general.