Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

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Leah
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Leah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:53 pm

Frevet wrote:Played the Beta and am looking forward to it. To anyone who calls it brainless: Show me an MMO that ISN'T brainless. WOW is a joke nowadays.


I specifically said healing was brainless, and it is. I somehow doubt that you're doing the hardest content in WoW, however, if you think it's brainless. Only 57 guilds in the world have managed to down Heroic Garrosh. I guess the rest of the players are just dumb. ;)

Edited to Add: I went into the whole thing wanting very much to like the game. I'm very disappointed that after going two rounds with the game, it just doesn't get any better. In my opinion, it's not worth the $60 tag + a monthly sub.
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Glaucon » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:04 pm

Anarch Allegiere wrote:Well, not completely true. Zenimax is technically the mother-company of Bethesda, they own Bethesda. It's true though that Bethesda isn't officially involved in the development, although I've a hard time believing that considering the UI and graphics engine all seem to be taken directly from Skyrim, so technically the backbone of the game is made by Bethesda.


I read that the team of Bethesda didn't want to ruin their IP by turning it into into an MMO, but that their owners wanted that WoW pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and decided to go ahead with it anyway, handing the IP and assets over to another team. That is the power of capitalism! :thumbup:

And businesswise, I cannot blame them. Many others have tried, but the time is probably right for WoW to be dethroned, finally. And the Elder Scrolls IP might have the gravitas behind it to do that. Epic fails entirely possible.

Played the Beta and am looking forward to it. To anyone who calls it brainless: Show me an MMO that ISN'T brainless.


Which is why I don't play them anymore. It needs to be a really good one if it wants my monthly subscription.

Anyway... looking forward to Fallout IV!
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Garian » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:09 pm

By the time it launches, many things can be different, so I hesitate to say certain impressions I've had. I found the controls alright, about what I would expect for Elder Scrolls. Without knowing how PVP is still, I feel like I barely know the game.

Which is why I don't play them anymore. It needs to be a really good one if it wants my monthly subscription.


I agree. There are many free games out there doing similar or better things.
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Leah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:28 pm

Glaucon wrote:I read that the team of Bethesda didn't want to ruin their IP by turning it into into an MMO, but that their owners wanted that WoW pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and decided to go ahead with it anyway, handing the IP and assets over to another team. That is the power of capitalism! :thumbup:

And businesswise, I cannot blame them. Many others have tried, but the time is probably right for WoW to be dethroned, finally. And the Elder Scrolls IP might have the gravitas behind it to do that. Epic fails entirely possible.


I think that most people who love the ES series wanted a co-op game (which could sort of be achieved with heavy modding, but not really). Most of those people didn't want an MMO - and certainly not an MMO with a hefty initial price tag plus a monthly subscription.

Garian wrote:By the time it launches, many things can be different, so I hesitate to say certain impressions I've had. I found the controls alright, about what I would expect for Elder Scrolls. Without knowing how PVP is still, I feel like I barely know the game.


What works in a single-player game does not work in an MMO, in terms of controls. It will be very difficult for them to put in meaningful content when the controls basically ensure that the only "complicated" gameplay is as a DPS - yet they plan on having tanks and healers? o_O With those controls, they honestly should just scrap the idea of going with the Holy Trinity.

I realize that things can change, but the things that most upset me about the game are highly unlikely to change in the next 2 months. They're too close to "go time."
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Garian » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:49 pm

I realize that things can change, but the things that most upset me about the game are highly unlikely to change in the next 2 months. They're too close to "go time."


Yeah, I will watch for reviews to see. I feel like they could change the leveling by then.
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Glaucon » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:05 pm

Oh, they are doing the healer-tank-DPS thing? Well, that strikes me as stupid. They should leave that to all the other MMO's, which probably do a better job at it anyway. Can't anyone think of doing anything but copying WoW, these days? I'd had hoped they would ditch that model and go for something a bit more elder scroll-like. Oh well.

I realize that things can change, but the things that most upset me about the game are highly unlikely to change in the next 2 months. They're too close to "go time."


Since the people that wanted money and fast are obviously in the driver's seat on this one, them rushing it and epically failing because they release a broken MMO seems entirely possible (it seems to be the way things go with MMO's and many other games, these days). Sometimes, having people in control that want to do something right rather than just earn as much money as quickly as possible ends up making you a lot more money,

Oh well.
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Tantus » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:12 pm

ESO is based on HeroEngine, the same used for SWToR. The similarities are there as you play through it.

Leah, I'd have to say... my experience with the weekend beta was a little different ;)

The controls will be awkward for someone coming from a mob-targeted-MMO like, WoW(+clones), SWToR, etc... ESO has a non-targeted system, so you face your opponent and attack. It's similar to Darkfall(which I think was the first MMO to use it) and Tera. I can't say I found any problems with the controls, it was just as I expected the game to play.

I didn't get to test the healing much, some heals will target the ally lowest on health so it's not entirely random. In the few PvP battles I experienced, I played more offensively, then hit a few heals to see what happens... just like a professional noob-healer!


You've often heard MMOs promising flexible classes and when you play the game, you will soon find yourself restricted to a weapon type, armour class, and reduced to a couple of effective builds.

With ESO, they just might pull it off! Being able to wear any armour or equip any weapon, sounded like a gimmick. But now I'm seeing the potential to tailor each class/race/weapon combination to your play style.

The Tamriel Foundry already lists the Armour, Weapon and Class skills. Light, Medium and Heavy armours have their own set of passive bonuses.

So if you want to play a two-handed berserker character, you can use medium armour for the crit bonuses and stamina regen. And you can be a Templar in light armour for the spell bonus and mana regen, using it to heal more effectively. Your 'battlemage' can be based on a Sorcerer in heavy armour, or a Dragonknight with a Destruction staff.

I might play a Templar with a Restoration staff, and bow as secondary weapon for the snares and make him more effective at CC.

It might all go wrong and end up with a few cookie-cutter templates in the end-game, but I think Zenimax are making a genuine effort to prevent that.
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Leah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:20 pm

Tantus wrote:ESO is based on HeroEngine, the same used for SWToR. The similarities are there as you play through it.


Is that why I periodically lag out and am unable to loot anything/cast any spells? lol

Leah, I'd have to say... my experience with the weekend beta was a little different ;)

The controls will be awkward for someone coming from a mob-targeted-MMO like, WoW(+clones), SWToR, etc... ESO has a non-targeted system, so you face your opponent and attack. It's similar to Darkfall(which I think was the first MMO to use it) and Tera. I can't say I found any problems with the controls, it was just as I expected the game to play.


So you like keyboard turning? :o.O:

I didn't get to test the healing much, some heals will target the ally lowest on health so it's not entirely random. In the few PvP battles I experienced, I played more offensively, then hit a few heals to see what happens... just like a professional noob-healer!


I didn't say the healing was random. I said I had no control over it past pushing a button. And I don't. The heals either target everyone, or specifically favor the lowest health target. I cannot target who I want to heal - for whatever reason - beyond a single ground area effect that's piss-weak and probably not worth the magicka you spend for it.

This is a problem in a Trinity system. It's a problem because there are going to be times when the DPS biting it is less of an issue than me losing the tank. But the spells are going to target the lowest health person, even when I want it to go on the tank. This takes the control out of my hands, and is, quite frankly, stupid.

You've often heard MMOs promising flexible classes and when you play the game, you will soon find yourself restricted to a weapon type, armour class, and reduced to a couple of effective builds.

With ESO, they just might pull it off! Being able to wear any armour or equip any weapon, sounded like a gimmick. But now I'm seeing the potential to tailor each class/race/weapon combination to your play style.


Yeah, unless you spend points in the wrong area. Unless they've changed something between the last Beta and now, there's no way to re-spec if you picked the wrong thing. You're just SOL. I asked several times about it, and the response I got was that you should "think really hard" about what you're picking at the time.

It might all go wrong and end up with a few cookie-cutter templates in the end-game, but I think Zenimax are making a genuine effort to prevent that.


There will always be cookie-cutter specs. Always. Because someone will math it out and figure out what the most efficient/powerful combination is and people will do that. This is the nature of MMO gaming, and nothing Zenimax does is going to change that.
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Glaucon » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:54 pm

Hmmm, what Tantus said does make the game seem more attractive again. Like I said, I am a bit tired of the typical way MMO's do things. If I wanted that, I'd go play Guild Wars II or something (which I hear does the typical stuff pretty well and has no monthly fee, and is pretty to boot).

Leah wrote:There will always be cookie-cutter specs. Always. Because someone will math it out and figure out what the most efficient/powerful combination is and people will do that. This is the nature of MMO gaming, and nothing Zenimax does is going to change that.


The general opinion on what a cookie-cutter build is isn't going to matter that much to people pursuing the PvE content. Which seems to be the focus of this MMO. It only matters to people doing the group-based end-game content and to people doing PvP. Those tend to be the minority of the players of a successful MMO. For those things, you will need to conform to the general opinion on cookie-cutter builds. Even if they really managed to make 1000 combinations viable and equally powerful (unlikely), you'd still be expected to be one of a few possible things. Because that is how groups of average-intelligence people playing together behave.
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Re: Elder Scrolls 6: MMO

Postby Tantus » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:37 pm

I had a fair few interface crashes too, Leah, just need to use the same old command from SWToR:
/reloadui

The mouse-click turning is something I remember being an elitist-WoW thing! I don't recall how I was manoeuvring in EoS, I think I was being a keyboard-turning noob, whilst switching between third-person and first-person combat. There was no time to try grouped PvE content either, so I can't really comment on healing, other than expecting it to be something different and maybe a little erratic, but so long as you can make it work, I will be trying it.

It's not going to be appeal to a hardcore of WoW players, where much of the combat is happening on a timer. Every person has a routine, they click a button every few seconds, run to the end of their combination.... and... repeat. And that's why I don't play MMOs will cooldowns, it's a lazy way for developers to balance their classes.

A Stamina/Manna based game without cooldowns is trusting the players to manage their own resources and those who depleted their bars to quickly will suffer for it.

Apparently there will be a respec after release, I don't know how definite this is, though it's meant to be possible to gain enough skill points to max all of your abilities. As you level, your Active abilities take 1 point to unlock, and 1 point to morph(skills gain in levels as you use them, until you have an option to morph it for an added effect, from two possible options). Passive skills will require 1 point to unlock and 1 point for each level increase. Those will drain your skill points and need to be trained with due consideration.

For now we can only speculate onto how effective these loose builds will be, or whether they'll need to be tightened up into specific roles. I don't mind playing a particular archetype, so long as I can switch weapons for my secondary set of abilities and play them effectively, then ESO will be giving more flexibility than other MMOs out there.

Here are a couple of recent videos, the first goes through many of the game's mechanics with a teaser of the lockpicking screen(you find locked chests about the world):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtPIon_SKJo



And one showing grouped PvE, with no discernible trinity;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfpYnehJ5TE

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