Is conflict RP still possible?

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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:13 pm

I've pretty much always incorporated full nudity in my RP as being a bad thing too, but... I'm not immediately sold on the idea that goreans would have the same puritan views and the offense at the sight of breasts seems something very victorian and catholic to me. It was not really that uncommon in ancient ages for women not to cover their tits, especially for slave-girls it seemed uncommon.

But once again, this is all speculation and as far as I'm concerned there is very inconsistent information in the books. Only a few moments ago I was reading a chapter that involved an Ubara making sure there were lots of naked pleasure-slaves serving the men during dessert at her dinner party, the FW in that particular scene (all of high status to be invited to the Ubara's party) all seemed to enjoy the sight of sex in their presence so... yeah.

Is it really news that Norman wrote inconsistent stories? This morning someone posted a quote of a captured slave-girl holding a dagger at her owner's throat and demanding a tarn to escape... So slave-girls can fly tarns now? Confirmed yeah?

I trust the security of his Pleasure Gardens is superb, else he might waken to a knife at his throat and the demand for a tarn, and, perhaps eventually, in the rags of a slave, a seat on the bench of a cargo galley."

(Assassin of Gor, 400-401)


Actually it was a panther, but I don't think tarn-flying panthers would go over any better with the gorean roleplay community.
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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Viggo » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:38 pm

Point is, in SL gor you need to take in account that it is a game and can't be 100% BTB in regards to some things. There are people that come to Gor wanting to play scarlets and have no idea how too, and they are not shown because people say "you should already know ICly, so we won't teach you". I take a new person coming to a city or caste, like in books where they have people switching castes, there was trying in the books for new Scarlet as we seen with Tarl. Anyone can switch caste with High Council approval, so if a Metal Worker showed great qualities of a warrior during a raid the High Council can accept him to switch caste to Scarlet. Of course he is a low caste Metal Worker and has no clue about being a Scarlet, so someone had to teach him.

@ Theoden- you have not sent one quote or said anything logical but your opinion, of what YOU think. While everything I said was quoted and BTB or from Greek/Roman history that the books were based off. Lets try this, instead of thinking you can just throw some crap on a forum and be seen as some kind of master BTB scarlet. Lets pick an easy topic you keep bringing it; give one quote from any of the almost 30 books of someone using a rapid fire bow besides the torvie short bow...let us see you use the very first quote and logical fact based reply in your life on the forums.
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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Isabella » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:41 pm

Pepper wrote:=

Oh yes, breasts too. Maybe you could get away with saying nipples and vag, if "cover your breasts" is too much. For example; cleavage would be okay. Full breast exposure wouldn't be okay. My FW would scoff at either, of course. ;)

My input would be to put any OOC rule about it in your dress code and let the rest work itself out in rp. The only problem with a "no nudity" rule would be that it takes away the chance to play a slave being punished by being nude around FW. And the problem with that is that most slave rpers don't see nudity as a bad thing, so they don't really take it as a punishment. I don't know how you fix that or if you even can.



Aha yes, nipples is a good way of putting it, cleavage is fine for a slave. ty ty.

and yeah I hear you, its a damned if you do, damned if you don't position with putting things into OOC rules.

Think they are gonna try the 'guidelines' approach, so its not a hard and fast rule but more of an education approach. We'll see how that goes huh!

Already we get about 10 (no exaggeration) FW a day yelling in the mods IMs that we arent a RP sim becuase no-one wants to deal with their long hair and no veil ICly.

yay BTB!

*

ALSO - OOC training should never be a pre-requisite to join a sim for ANY position. Cannot stand that garbage.
:pft:
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Cassie
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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Cassie » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:50 pm

Isabella wrote:
ALSO - OOC training should never be a pre-requisite to join a sim for ANY position. Cannot stand that garbage.
:pft:


Not pre requisite but not to be so easily frowned upon. Training IC can be fun as a background plot.

I would not display my slave all naked all day, she is my slave why display her around. If I were a slaver maybe even but a private one no... she is mine!
That said I don't feel as FW offended if a girl is naked so much cause I am afraid of boobs but it is such a display for men that having it shoved in my FW face just feels wrong. Again this is an aspect I embrace out of quotes trying to think like a FW.
Godless heathens always waltz on the sky.
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Theoden
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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Theoden » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:45 pm

Cassie wrote:Not pre requisite but not to be so easily frowned upon. Training IC can be fun as a background plot.

I would not display my slave all naked all day, she is my slave why display her around. If I were a slaver maybe even but a private one no... she is mine!
That said I don't feel as FW offended if a girl is naked so much cause I am afraid of boobs but it is such a display for men that having it shoved in my FW face just feels wrong. Again this is an aspect I embrace out of quotes trying to think like a FW.


For assassin training and slave training, it is different than physician/scribe/warrior training.

I think RPed out assassin and slave training would be fine. I am against *mandated* rped out training, though. That is what people are against. The mandated rule. But I am glad that the black caste is evolving and are moving beyond it. in Ar, we have legends of BC here that have rped the caste for a very long time, and yet, the BC rule for the sim is : no ooc group mandated, no rped out training mandated.

Viggo wrote:Point is, in SL gor you need to take in account that it is a game and can't be 100% BTB in regards to some things. There are people that come to Gor wanting to play scarlets and have no idea how too, and they are not shown because people say "you should already know ICly, so we won't teach you". I take a new person coming to a city or caste, like in books where they have people switching castes, there was trying in the books for new Scarlet as we seen with Tarl. Anyone can switch caste with High Council approval, so if a Metal Worker showed great qualities of a warrior during a raid the High Council can accept him to switch caste to Scarlet. Of course he is a low caste Metal Worker and has no clue about being a Scarlet, so someone had to teach him.



They should research their role before playing their role in a roleplaying sim. I don't show up as a noble in game of thrones and ask them to teach me IC how to be a noble of westeros.

They need to research their role before hand, and be given resources where there is a large collection of quotes, like thegoreancave.com , or diverted to the e-reads book website.

Just because the high council has the power to do something doesn't mean it happens commonly. You are missing the point here.

I agree with Sasi that if you want to be a special snowflake and 'move into ' the warriors caste like Tarl, then you should go find a tutor and train one on one, not as a caste whole. Go take someone under your wing. Why force the rest of us to go through nonsensical OOC IC blended training that make no sense with our character backgrounds?
Viggo wrote:@ Theoden- you have not sent one quote or said anything logical but your opinion, of what YOU think. While everything I said was quoted and BTB or from Greek/Roman history that the books were based off. Lets try this, instead of thinking you can just throw some crap on a forum and be seen as some kind of master BTB scarlet.


That's very funny actually because everything i have said is based on the books or history. I don't need to do the work of researching quotes for you, you can do that for yourself.

It's funny because you on the other hand have posted many quotes, but still continue your verbal diarrhea of nonsense. Every quote you have posted about warriors was out of context or didn't support your argument or had nothing to do with the argument at hand.

Viggo wrote: Lets pick an easy topic you keep bringing it; give one quote from any of the almost 30 books of someone using a rapid fire bow besides the torvie short bow...let us see you use the very first quote and logical fact based reply in your life on the forums.


Eh. I'll humor you. Why not. I have the e-read on my iPad anyway.

Tuchuk bows


the tiny, swift bow of Tuchuks, the narrow, rectangular quiver, with its forty arrows. . . . It is small, double-curved, about four feet in length, built up of layers of bosk horn, bound and reinforced with metal and leather; it is banded with metal at seven points, including the grip. . .the bow lacks the range of both the longbow and the crossbow, but, at close range, firing rapidly, it can be a devastating weapon
Assassin of Gor, Page 365


I whipped out the Tuchuk bow and, in the instant, found myself wheeling and fighting in the midst of more than a dozen tarnsmen, while many others, wheeling about, attempted to press in upon me. Ubar of the Skies suddenly uttered a scream that terrified even me, raising the hair on my neck and arms; it was not simply the challenge scream of his kind; it was a scream of pleasure, of horrifying eagerness, of the tarn's lust for blood and war; steel-shod talons grasping, screaming, beak tearing, Ubar of the Skies, his black eyes blazing with delight, hurled himself on odds that pleased him, odds which even he, that majestic carnivore, could accept as worthy. Again and again the small bow, swift and vicious, fired, twenty barbed arrows in half an Ehn, tarnsmen struggling to reach me with their swords, thrusting with their heavy spears, and all the time Ubar of the Skies tearing and ripping, his beak and steel-shod talons engines of fierce carnage;
Assassin of Gor, chapter 22 the stadium of tarns


The bow, of course, small, for use from the saddle, lacks the range and power of the Gorean longbow or crossbow; still, at close range, with considerable force, firing rapidly, arrow after arrow, it is a fearsome weapon.
Nomads of Gor, Pages 66 - 67

The small bow has many advantages. High among these is the rapidity with which it may be drawn and fired. A skilled warrior, in the Gorean gravity, can fire ten arrows into the air, the last leaving the bow before the first has returned to the earth. No Gorean weapon can match it in its rate of fire. At close range it can be devastating. Two further advantages of the small bow that might be mentioned are its maneuverability and its capacity to be concealed, say beneath a robe. It can be easily swept from one side of the kaiila to the other.
Savages of Gor, Page 46

Tarl introduced some tuchuk bows over to his special fleet of tarn cavalry for his pani friends. but of course, tarl is an exception and majority of warriors wouldn't use tuchuk bows. but.... I'm just leaving this here just in case you insist there is 'no' incidents of warriors using tuchuk bows.


"I was proud of the cavalry and it had well proven its reliability and formidableness in combat, for it had met and defeated a far larger force in the skies over the northern forests, a force intent on the destruction of Tarncamp, and later, one supposes, Shipcamp. As a tarn force it was superbly trained and uniquely equipped for aerial combat, far more so than the usual tarn forces of known Gor, which usually consisted, in effect, of mounted infantry, spear bearing, and armed with a saddle-clearing crossbow. We used the supple temwood lance and a bow modeled on the Tuchuk saddle bow, the lance lighter and longer than the spear, exceeding its reach, and the string bow capable, of course, of firing several missiles to one of the traditional crossbow. The great peasant bow was impractical to use on tarnback. At closer quarters one might use quivas, saddle knives, or Anango darts."

-Rebels of Gor, page 7, chapter 1.



Pirates

They were short, ship bows, stout and maneuverable, easy to use in crowded quarters, easy to fire across the bulwarks of galleys locked in combat.
. . .
Their rate of fire, of course, is much superior to that of the crossbow, either of the draw or windlass, variety. All things considered the ship bow is an ideal missile weapon for close-range naval combat. It is superior in this respect even to the peasant bow, or long bow, which excels it in impact, range and accuracy.
Rouge of Gor, Pages 307 - 308



Panthers

Panthers. Obviously they don't use long slow bows like peasant bows or pani bows. Strength issues.

"Some call them the forest girls," said Ute. "Others call them the panther girls, for they dress themselves in the teeth and skins of forest panthers, which they slay with their spears and bows."
Captive of Gor, Page 82

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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Viggo » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:52 pm

Good job, panthers, pirates, wagon people (you forgot the red savages).

Now back to the original point made about rapid fire bows, and let us bring your quotes the discussion. My post was that Scarlets using rapid fire bows is GE, when they raid.

So does your quotes about pirates, wagon people, and panthers explain why Scarlet vs Scarlet using rapid fire bows is not GE? No...as none of those people are Scarlets that raid cities, of course any outlaw or random person can pick up a bow. Can even say the Mercs can do that, but Scarlets consider bow a peasant weapon and only used crossbows and the average Gorean did not know how to use or use bows besides peasants who had the Long Bow.

..I brought up Torvie, because they are the only BTB sim that would be raiding another BTB sim that might use bows with legit reason. But point remains, you are wrong. You throw out insults and trying to say people are not BTB, but the point about Scarlet VS Scarlet rapid bow meter fighting defense you bring up every post you back up with quotes about panthers, pirates, and wagon people. Wow..good job there, point made..I guess...Scarlets were trained by panthers to use bows in the unknown book 'Theoden of Gor' :loOsEr:
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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Leah » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:18 pm

Sasi wrote: And I seldom see a FW in SL Gor, upset because a girl is naked and in nadu..


That's because when they do get upset, they're told they don't know the genre and are playing FW incorrectly. When I played a FW, she got upset when shit like that happened, and her protestse were either a) ignored, or b) I had someone pop into IMs and tell me that I was wrong for making a fuss in character.

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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Theoden » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:25 pm

Viggo wrote:Good job, panthers, pirates, wagon people (you forgot the red savages).

Now back to the original point made about rapid fire bows, and let us bring your quotes the discussion. My post was that Scarlets using rapid fire bows is GE, when they raid.


You really seem to like to use straw man arguments don't you?

I never said that was a comprehensive list of everyone using a rapid fire bow. Your challenge was

give one quote from any of the almost 30 books of someone using a rapid fire bow besides the torvie short bow...let us see you use the very first quote and logical fact based reply in your life on the forums.


I only had to mention one group of people, and one quote. I decided to give you more, to show your ignorance.

So does your quotes about pirates, wagon people, and panthers explain why Scarlet vs Scarlet using rapid fire bows is not GE? No...as none of those people are Scarlets that raid cities, of course any outlaw or random person can pick up a bow. Can even say the Mercs can do that, but Scarlets consider bow a peasant weapon and only used crossbows and the average Gorean did not know how to use or use bows besides peasants who had the Long Bow.

..I brought up Torvie, because they are the only BTB sim that would be raiding another BTB sim that might use bows with legit reason. But point remains, you are wrong. You throw out insults and trying to say people are not BTB, but the point about Scarlet VS Scarlet rapid bow meter fighting defense you bring up every post you back up with quotes about panthers, pirates, and wagon people. Wow..good job there, point made..I guess...Scarlets were trained by panthers to use bows in the unknown book 'Theoden of Gor' :loOsEr:


Another straw man. Never have I said that warriors would fight warriors with bows. In fact, it is why I argue for melee centric fighting, with swords, spears and crossbows. I also have long argued for more realistic crossbows, and that ranged weapons in GM should be nerfed. Never have I justified warrior on warrior bow fighting with quotes about panthers, pirates or wagon people.

If you wish to say 'torvaldslanders are the only realistic group that could raid cities with bows' , that is vastly different than your two posts, one in the other thread, and one in this, that 'torvaldslanders are the only ones that use rapid fire bows'. I merely corrected you on that factual mistake.

And even if 'torvaldslanders are the only realistic group that could raid cities with bows' was your intent, and you simply mistyped/mispoke, even that would come under scrutiny. Cities aren't realistically 'raided' in the books. villages are raided. cities are warred upon and conquered.

the only book examples of raids in cities are cylinder raids and chain luck raids.

another thing we can do that is not in the books, but still plausible, is to have enemies sneak into the sewers of a city, just a handful, and make a small attack in the slums, before withdrawing. Or, an expeditionary scout unit of a city, hitting for a quick snatch and grab on the outer walls. Those would be plausible scenarios for 'raids' as done in SL gor.

But we weren't talking about raids, were we? in that thread we were talking about visitors needing to hang up their bows before entering a city (which is ridiculous). You then went on a tirade against GM bows. And you mentioned that only torvaldslanders would have quick firing bows. That is incorrect.

viewtopic.php?f=230&t=8520&start=30#p199870

1. The torvie are the only that had quick firing bow, so to have is not gorean and ge to even have one. Scarlets had slow firing crossbows, peasants had slow firing long bow. Rest of the southern people had no ranged weapons, but everyone wants to be mr tough guy with a bow.


'rest of the southern people had no ranged weapons' you say. What about the vosk pirates and their ship bows?


If you constantly are losing an argument on the internet you should just walk away instead of making up straw men to fight and look tough on.
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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Sasi » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:07 am

Viggo wrote:Point is, in SL gor you need to take in account that it is a game and can't be 100% BTB in regards to some things. There are people that come to Gor wanting to play scarlets and have no idea how too, and they are not shown because people say "you should already know ICly, so we won't teach you". I take a new person coming to a city or caste, like in books where they have people switching castes, there was trying in the books for new Scarlet as we seen with Tarl. Anyone can switch caste with High Council approval, so if a Metal Worker showed great qualities of a warrior during a raid the High Council can accept him to switch caste to Scarlet. Of course he is a low caste Metal Worker and has no clue about being a Scarlet, so someone had to teach him.


There is nothing wrong in teaching someone a caste, but since there are too many people who change caste every 3 months (caste velcro people), it doesn't make sense to organise a wide IC training, when once again, in books, it should be something exceptional. People can be taught their role OOCLy and first, move their ass and make the effort to get resources and informations on the role they wish to play, by themselves.
It's even more ridiculous when you want to give IC code training to guys who are already, IC warriors. I guess that it was the point which annoyed Theo, no?

@Leah: I think too that it's because most people don't like to have their character look bad, petty, selfish, jealous as they don't separate well their own character from their real person... Even if in the books, most FW are described as bitches, still, in SL Gor, most FW are nice kind women...
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Re: Is conflict RP still possible?

Postby Viggo » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:31 am

Sasi wrote:
Viggo wrote:Point is, in SL gor you need to take in account that it is a game and can't be 100% BTB in regards to some things. There are people that come to Gor wanting to play scarlets and have no idea how too, and they are not shown because people say "you should already know ICly, so we won't teach you". I take a new person coming to a city or caste, like in books where they have people switching castes, there was trying in the books for new Scarlet as we seen with Tarl. Anyone can switch caste with High Council approval, so if a Metal Worker showed great qualities of a warrior during a raid the High Council can accept him to switch caste to Scarlet. Of course he is a low caste Metal Worker and has no clue about being a Scarlet, so someone had to teach him.


There is nothing wrong in teaching someone a caste, but since there are too many people who change caste every 3 months (caste velcro people), it doesn't make sense to organise a wide IC training, when once again, in books, it should be something exceptional. People can be taught their role OOCLy and first, move their ass and make the effort to get resources and informations on the role they wish to play, by themselves.
It's even more ridiculous when you want to give IC code training to guys who are already, IC warriors. I guess that it was the point which annoyed Theo, no?

@Leah: I think too that it's because most people don't like to have their character look bad, petty, selfish, jealous as they don't separate well their own character from their real person... Even if in the books, most FW are described as bitches, still, in SL Gor, most FW are nice kind women...


I really don't care what theo says, he is a know it all that likes to insult people's RP because it is not some thing he would do. Lots of quotes that support Scarlet as being Guards, he don't think they should be so insults people that play Guardsmen. He don't think there should be IC training, so he insults everyone that thinks it is a good idea. He does not agree with an RP someone does, he insults their RP and belittles them as players. Not sure why you care about what someone like that thinks, as obviously they have no respect for anyone but themselves.

To the topic of the IC training; the point is that people are IC warriors because they walked up and said "I'm a Warrior". BTB this is 100% true, once a child of a Scarlet male shoots out his mother's twat, he is a Warrior. This does not mean he knows anything about being a Warrior, and since none of us RPed childhoods everything we know ICly has to be gained ICly as that is RP 101. Does not matter what your background is, if you go to any other RP SIM in SL and say "I am a grand master wizard for the millionth order!", they will say "um..no..you just got here, so you a novice and have to learn your spells". Then you might reply "But my backstory says _______!", and they will respond "Good for you, you godmoded your backstory to come in as a semi-god character...yeah..no, not going to work".

Everyone wants to come to Gor as some Master awesome super star day one, and it is not good RP and it is not good fun for those that have put the years into SL Gor. In any case, I teach at Gorean Campus the Scarlet Codes course. I have Ubars, commanders, and veterans from every BTB sim there saying it is a great thing. I am fine if Theo thinks it is wrong or whatever, but his one opinion does not trump the opinion of my 50 students that today will be going to their 4th class that think it is great. ;tybow:

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