Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

PLEASE READ THE RULES BEFORE POSTING!

Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Poll ended at Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:35 am

Yes
3
8%
Yes
3
8%
No
14
35%
No
14
35%
Other (Please Explain)
3
8%
Other (Please Explain)
3
8%
 
Total votes: 40
...

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby ... » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:01 am

Sasi wrote:Actually, I was -ironic- in my answer to Mat....... My point was to prove that something which can look like a good service because people expect and enjoy it, is not obligatory a good service, when at the end, the negative points take over the positive points.


Yes, I understood what you were attempting to do, but you attempted to do it by expressing 'irony' that was itself grounded in ignorance. If you think a bar tender can provide a good service, then a drug dealer can.

Sasi wrote:And actually, when a slave school teaches onlinisms and creates a confusion into new RPer's minds when it comes to the IC/OOC separation - risking to put these people in drama situation in role play sims - no, it does not provide a good service.


Except that an awful lot of people STAY in those sims that have minimal plot and maximum OOC/IC crossover, despite the 'competition' offering an alternative. The classes may not prepare them for 'book plausible epic storyline oriented RP' - but they prepare them for the types of SL Gor sims that the majority of people in SL Gor play in.

For the people who want something different, it's available. But the classes on how to be a real slavey slave are the ones being a) taught and b) attended. I would say it's almost a certainty that more people play (and stay) on these 'crap' sims than on any of the para-RP ones that open, and that most of us here attend. If that doesn't make them an objectively overall better service in the context of SL Gor as a whole, I don't know what does.

Sasi wrote:I am sure that you will agree with me too, that a good service is not synonymous with "something that people like"........ Finally, you did break nothing to me, don't feel sorry.


No, that's my whole point. I can certainly agree that it's not the service FOR ME, but I lack the arrogance to consider it a 'bad' service just because it doesn't mesh with what I want in SL Gor. Some people love themselves some twelve-steppin' serves from the chilla, even in the knowledge that alternative modes of SL Gor exist, and more power to them.
Violetta Daviau
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:55 pm
SL Name: Violetta Daviau

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby Violetta Daviau » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:51 am

I remember when I entered Gor for the first time... I had no idea about it, nor even that books would exist, much less about what the detail topic discussions e.g. on forums like this revealed and explained - as single fact as well as this fact included into the big picture. I was experienced in roleplaying though.

NCs and lore interpretations floated about back then like nothing else, the different motivations of people to come to SL Gor - other than to roleplay the classical style I had priorly exclusively encountered everywhere else - was totally unknown to me too.

But what I did was to make friends, online buddies, and I trusted them that what they told me would be right. Much most of all that, seen from today, was onlinisms or total neglect of any still valid realism or role restraints. Yet the more I learned, the more I missed to see that in actual roleplay. Would I just have come to SL Gor to socialize or to find a dom or Sub for my RL or kink gaming time, I would likely not have minded, but as roleplayer I did - and finally moved on.
Hell, I did not even remotely expect the possibility of some player letting their avatar walk up to me and ask me if I could command and control their avatar IC, their SL gaming OOC or even their RL behaviors and activities, up to including to decide whom they interact with or taking their very L$ as my money (never did that, but it is out there!). Or that "roleplaying" with me (read: OOC owning me) would be sold for an average 30-50.000 L$ and I was expected to respect any player who paid that to another player (not me) and accept them really as my OOC/RL owner...

That leads me, in regards to some of the above posts, to the question: If such sims, that cater such highly Gor and Realism sticking roleplay as focus, would offer such classes with more lore and realism affine contents, would then such players also stick there for long times?

To bring that into the context above: Offering a service that can count as quality service... and I would not compare such classes to drug dealers personally, I would rather compare them to yellow press on one and educated press on the other side, with the constructed condition that one cannot find the educated press amongst the masses of bad yellow press as easily as by going to the newspaper kiosk...
User avatar
Anarch Allegiere
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:01 am
SL Name: Anarch Allegiere

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:06 am

They cater to people that only are just starting in the genre or are new to roleplay. And a majority of people don't tend to stick around in SL Gor very long.

There's tons of people on non-gorean SL sims that claim they once used to RP in Gor, but left because of numerous reasons. The main reason being that they think that entire SL Gor are like the noob sims and bad roleplayers that swamp it.

I had a conversation a few days ago with a woman, who claimed she left SL Gor because all the sims were lesbian panther tribes with badly dressed avatars and one-liner RP, she even mentioned Valkyrie Forest as one of the sims she used to RP a lot on.

There's really tons and tons of people like this who left SL Gor because they believe that all sims are like Sais, Turia or Valkyrie Forest etc...

So do they do Gor a service? No. They create a forefront for noobs and fester their sim activity purely on that while chasing away better and smarter roleplayers, because they believe that entire Gor is like that... People on non-gorean sims constantly seem surprised that I'm a gorean roleplayer, because they seem baffled at the concept of someone in SL Gor using paragraph roleplay or even semi-paragraph roleplay.
Violetta Daviau
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:55 pm
SL Name: Violetta Daviau

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby Violetta Daviau » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:15 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:...People on non-gorean sims constantly seem surprised that I'm a gorean roleplayer, because they seem baffled at the concept of someone in SL Gor using paragraph roleplay or even semi-paragraph roleplay...

...and care for your visual appearance to be theme inline in body, clothing and weaponry...
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby Glaucon » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:25 am

@ Anarch: You really think that if all the gorean sims that you see as for noobs went away, with only 'high level' sims left, this would lead more people from non-gorean sims to come and play in Gor? That's unlikely. Sure, some people may cite noobish, simplistic RP as one of the reasons they don't like playing in Gor. But many other reasons mentioned by such players would still apply. Many do not like the theme, do not like the books, do not like that there is so much arguing over the books, do not like the pew-pew, do not like the concept of female sexual slavery, male dominace, do not like the ego-battles and sim politics (which this thread shows is a common attitude) and so forth. The onlinisms and all that aren't a major reason for many, I suspect. And many of those posting here (now or in the past) have started out in one of these 'noob' sims of yours when they first joined Gor. And moved on from there.

I'd say that most experienced, capable RP-ers playing in the more 'advanced' non-gorean RP sims would have little interest in playing in a Gor-themed sim, even if they were aware of sims with 'high level' RP, unless they already had a background in gorean RP.
User avatar
Anarch Allegiere
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:01 am
SL Name: Anarch Allegiere

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:51 am

Glaucon wrote:I'd say that most experienced, capable RP-ers playing in the more 'advanced' non-gorean RP sims would have little interest in playing in a Gor-themed sim, even if they were aware of sims with 'high level' RP, unless they already had a background in gorean RP.


This is simply not true in my eyes. At no point have I ever heard those people say they left Gor because they didn't like the theme or the books. It's always because they don't like the bad roleplay etiquette, the bad dress, the IC/OOC blending, the demand for webcamming, the fact that slave-girls get treated like outright rightless sluts in groupchats and IMs, etc...

I know it's anecdotal, but I've talked with many people in non-gorean sims over the past few months (because I've been looking around myself), so even though it's not a factual statement it's for me indication enough not to agree with you that those people left because they disliked the theme. Most even seem not to wanting to believe there are paragraph Gor sims out there when I tell them... The only thing I'm willing to meet you halfway on might be your reference to the pew pew.

Meter combat isn't very interesting if there is no substantial RP frame either.

SL Gor has a very bad reputation. Everyone outside Gor seems to think that sims are either the flexi-hair webcamsluts noob BtB sims or the no-RP all meter combat neo-goth GE sims. Fault obviously could be found in the fact that they might've given up too easily, but ... seeing also how extremely fickle the 'gypsy groups / cliques' of paragraph roleplayers are that is nothing really surprising.

To improve or repair the reputation of SL Gor we should probably try to get these good roleplayers outside of it to come back and show them there are a few sims that do things differently and offer them the same protection and roleplay quality as they're currently experiencing in non-gorean sims.
User avatar
Architeuthis
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:09 pm
SL Name: ~

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby Architeuthis » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:58 am

I think Gor gets a bad reputation because of the whole BDSM lifestyler slavery thing. People outside the Gor sims don't understand what it's about and are horrified by the idea of slavery. That and the noobs who don't understand the difference between IC and OOC scare people off. I was on a top 5 traffic Gor sim recently and the RP was like this:

Me: /me entered the dimly lit crowded tavern. As he brushed past the strings of colored shells and beads hanging in front of the doorway the acrid smell of tobacco wafted to his nose. He turned to the man in red, raising his right hand, palm inward. "Tal," he nodded.

Man: who are u

My actual post was longer but you get the idea. He was a lifestyler, I later found out, who has never read the books but who runs a Gorean household.

This kind of shit scares people off of the genre, old or new.
Last edited by Architeuthis on Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Violetta Daviau
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:55 pm
SL Name: Violetta Daviau

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby Violetta Daviau » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:05 pm

There are MANY reasons, yes, another is the near SL wide famous Gor Drama that evolves around pewpew, around lifestyle or other D/s IC/OOC swapping topics, low RP skills, disabilities to lose conflicts, etc.

And then also the infestation of Gor throughout other RP themes that include sex, slavery and/or other adult means. Each day, in each such sims, I heard at one point someone tell another:
"((this is not Gor, you do not need to ....."))
"((this is not Gor, maledom is no rule here!"))
"((we had drama? By a Gor player? That's common when they come..."))
User avatar
TheReader
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:45 am
SL Name: Resident Resident
Role: Reader

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby TheReader » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:13 pm

This is an interesting topic if we disregard the obvious personal motive against that particular situation noted in the OP.

The actual question is, what is the accurate definition of Online-ism? And how far can it exist in Gor without disturbing the RP.

First let's put a few matters before us, SL Gor is all based on Onlinisms except for the "Text" based input you send to others. EVERYTHING else is just onlinisms. You click wear, undress, walks, run without getting tired, you fire a 100 arrows a minute, you tp to another land all across Gor in a few seconds, you get IMs, OOCs, Minimap.. You name it. It's all Onlinisms, and we need to face it.

What we're trying to do here is conceal all of those and keep the surface of everything we do showing the Illusion we create in our minds which is the RP. Some of us are disturbed by a snap change of clothes as much as others are disturbed with a TP to the middle of the room. It all depends on the person and how "sensitive" they are to the reality of the SL medium.

Personally I prefer an Onlimism-Etiquette for RP, this would prohibit harsh visual interferences (Like Tp's within the visual circumference, Tarn summoning from nowhere) things of that kind that would confuse you on how it happened specially without an interdictive post.

As for the special event etiquettes like typing "@" for an IC question and so on, those don't mind me at all. I think when a sim or a group are arranging an IC event or class or whatever that hosts 5 persons or more, there has to be a way to organize the contribution. Specially classes where there is "NO" turn priority. Cause Mostly if someone starts a class and every single student has to nod or respond, the amount of teaching done would require weeks to finish what could be done in a day. So having a "special" arrangement for that is definitely doing good more than bad cause people in that class are probably there to learn within that atmosphere more than they want to be there just to rp. And the prior announcement is in order.

Personally I was in a role when I had to educate others, I did that IC no arrangements and no Onlinist Protocol cause it was hardly a one on one or hardly two students and it was a very challenging task to educate and rp at the same time. We had fun though and it went so well.

In the end, it all depends on the situation and on the number of people involved. We can't say Onlinism is bad or good, useful or useless. Let's grow up a little and realize that a knife can be good and bad at the same time. We don't need to live a life with "mom said knives are bad" kind a mentality.
.. The Reader
If you don't understand what you read, don't embarrass yourself.
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Do "Online-isms" Add to RP?

Postby Glaucon » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:15 pm

Nah. Sorry, but this is nonsense. I have talked to a lot of people playing off-gor about Gor in SL over the years. I get that you have your pet peeves, but I have never had anyone mention bad-looking avatars (flexy hair or whatever) as one of the reasons why they didn't care to play Gor. Never heard that about 'demands for webcamming' either, or about OOC discrimination of slaves.

Noobish RP in general? Yes, that is one I have heard. The mindless pew pew in some sims? We can agree on that one. It is one I have heard quite often. The arguing over rules and the invalid-calling as well (I don't think you would disagree on that one either).

The other things I mentioned... maybe you never encountered them, but I assure you that the theme doesn't appeal to everyone. It also depends on whether you are talking about BtB Gor or about GE Gor. The theme is less of an issue when it comes to GE Gor, obviously. For BtB RP, the theme matters more. Many female players don't want to play Gor, because they don't want to play a slave or a FW. Many don't want to play Gor because they don't want to read 30+ books that they don't find particularly good. Many people get the impression Gor is a bit like a 'sect' (maybe because life-styler-like people they had contact with). Many people have a bad impression of Gorean players because of the way Gor players behave off-gor: dressing like Goreans in non-gor themed sims. 'Masters' acting like they are some big poohah in an OOC setting. People have told me they don't like Gor because the ego-fights and politics involved with SL Gor.

All anecdotal as well, I will admit.

@ Blackwolf & Violetta: You were posting as I was typing. But I agree. Especially with this bit:

"((we had drama? By a Gor player? That's common when they come..."))


The conflict and drama thing is perhaps the most common complaint. SL Gor players are very conflict-prone.

Return to “Debate It.”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron