Traffic and you

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Does traffic effect your decision on playing at a sim?

Yes, I look for places to play based on highest traffic.
10
13%
Yes, I look for places to play based on highest traffic.
10
13%
No, I look for a city or theme I'm interested in and try playing in that sim.
23
29%
No, I look for a city or theme I'm interested in and try playing in that sim.
23
29%
Other(please explain)
6
8%
Other(please explain)
6
8%
 
Total votes: 78
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Architeuthis
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Architeuthis » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:09 pm

That's the point though, Vic. If the choices were more limited then maybe being banned would be a much bigger deal. As it is now people already act like complete dicks because they can always go somewhere else.
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Victor. » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:15 pm

Architeuthis wrote:That's the point though, Vic. Maybe if people knew that certain behavior wouldn't fly then being banned would be a much bigger deal. As it is now people already act like complete dicks because they can always go somewhere else.


Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing at all.

Imagine there are 10 sims - 3 of those might cater to that particular part of counter-earth you're partial towards. Be it the Taharian region, Jungles of Ushindi - you name it.

If you really only have 3 options to pick from, you'll be at your best fucking behaviour to make sure you don't end up being banned from even one of those.

And with all of them moderately busy as a consequence, you'd really not want to saw off the branch you're sitting on.

I think, for the community at large, this would be a way better point of departure when it comes to RP stories, inter & intra sim wide RP, than we currently have.

Add an extended IP ban to it or whatever it'd be to make sure someone from that very location won't ever gain access on that sim again no matter how many alts and modem resets he goes through and you'd probably look at a community suddenly much more mature and pleasant-natured (ESPECIALLY when it comes to conflict situations ICly).
Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, die mit Eifer sucht, was Leiden schafft. // Jealousy is a passion, seeking zealously what causes suffering. Franz Grillparzer
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:18 pm

When I hear the stories from people who roleplayed back in those days when there only were a handful of gorean sims, it's not all that grand.

Getting banned from all 5 gorean sims in existance because you slapped an Ubar's slave? No thanks... Ice Bradley has a great story of back in those days with Luther (from the scrolls) threatening to get him banned from entire SL Gor, iirc.

Even if today we'd keep only the 5 most active BtB Gorean sims and removed the rest none of them would get along with eachother or want to have anything to do with eachother. They'd still send over people to try and OOC grief eachother as they do today.
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Architeuthis
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Architeuthis » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:32 pm

One hopes this sort of thing wouldn't happen but I'm still of the opinion that 10 busy sims is far better than 200 empty ones.
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Victor.
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Victor. » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:12 pm

Anarch Allegiere wrote:When I hear the stories from people who roleplayed back in those days when there only were a handful of gorean sims, it's not all that grand.

Getting banned from all 5 gorean sims in existance because you slapped an Ubar's slave? No thanks... Ice Bradley has a great story of back in those days with Luther (from the scrolls) threatening to get him banned from entire SL Gor, iirc.

Even if today we'd keep only the 5 most active BtB Gorean sims and removed the rest none of them would get along with eachother or want to have anything to do with eachother. They'd still send over people to try and OOC grief eachother as they do today.


Well, might be right and this sort of thing would really only work with a proper authority that basically takes care of a certain code of conduct to be adhered to from all parties.

Like the developers of other games handle their platforms. That sort of authority.

Guess nothing stops people from being cunts, especially not those who might own one of those 10 sims then and know they can behave like the elephant in the china shop just because people have no real alternatives anyway.

Seems I didn't think this fully through indeed.
Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, die mit Eifer sucht, was Leiden schafft. // Jealousy is a passion, seeking zealously what causes suffering. Franz Grillparzer
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Architeuthis » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:26 pm

Victor. wrote:Add an extended IP ban to it or whatever it'd be to make sure someone from that very location won't ever gain access on that sim again no matter how many alts and modem resets he goes through and you'd probably look at a community suddenly much more mature and pleasant-natured (ESPECIALLY when it comes to conflict situations ICly).


I don't know if it's possible to IP ban someone from your sim in SL or not. But regardless those things can easily be worked around so I don't think it would make much of a difference TBH.
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:49 pm

Architeuthis wrote:
Victor. wrote:Add an extended IP ban to it or whatever it'd be to make sure someone from that very location won't ever gain access on that sim again no matter how many alts and modem resets he goes through and you'd probably look at a community suddenly much more mature and pleasant-natured (ESPECIALLY when it comes to conflict situations ICly).


I don't know if it's possible to IP ban someone from your sim in SL or not. But regardless those things can easily be worked around so I don't think it would make much of a difference TBH.


Linden ToS heavily encourages people to use alts for privacy fun tbh. A lot of the rules in the LL ToS are to protect people's alts.

Back when RedZone came up with something that could detect and ban alts based on IP, Linden Labs jumped in immediately to disable the scriptcode that made that possible and explicitely sent out notices that the use of RedZone to detect and ban alts was forbidden.
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Theoden
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Theoden » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:00 pm

Kaitlin wrote:
The idea that sexism can only come from a man is priceless.


Well, I ama big fan of the 'i have a black friend' argument, in your words ;) What you deem sexism and racism, I deem normal. huge difference between real sexism and racism, and cultural racism and sexism. But I like being told I have a priceless idea :)

Kaitlin wrote:
My point is that you completely discounted reason 1-100 for not coming to play in gor and went right for a rather nonsensical one. They can't wear veils or show cleavage. I know plenty of players who have left Gor for GoT and plenty that would never set foot in Gor that play in GoT. You can bet the reasons I've heard have nothing to do with "I have to wear a veil".


Alright, then your information gathered from people who have played in GoT have been noted. I only offered my information from good female roleplayers who don't want to rp as a slave but don't like the wardrobe restrictions of SL Gor when it comes to FW. In Kaelus you have no idea how much crap we had to deal with when it came to playing fashion police for the FW.



Kaitlin wrote:

So in the GoT series you see noble women sleeping around in public? The same noble women with husbands or prospects of marriage? That is news to me.


You are making a straw man argument. I never said noble women slept around in public. But if they were caught a harlot, sleeping with many men behind the scenes, basically being a slut, she wouldn't be freaking collared, stripped and made to be a slave for the rest of her life. She would just be shunned, maybe.
With such a drastic contrast in consequences towards expression of a key human behavior of one of the two sexes, you can't really argue that they are almost exactly the same.

Maybe we are talking in circles. Let me for arguments sake quantify it.

1 to 10

Gor high caste FW 5
GoT nobles 6


You, I am thinking, are making it

Gor high caste FW 5.50
GoT nobles 5.75

Is that right or am I off?


Kaitlin wrote:
:facepalm:
Did you really just say that? I'll remember to add hugs and kisses to my future posts. If you want to read more than what is really here then I'll say again, fill your boots.



I have no boots, and there are no hug emotes. Your argument is invalid :D :fryingpan:

Kaitlin wrote:
Does it matter? Really? Same number of players.

The argument was made that a new meter would attract exactly the type of players that Gor needs to become something more than the current state by Blackwolf and then Glaucon. The answer is the same whether you are all happy about a new meter or you think it is more of the same cover for lack of creativity in RP. The latter is me of course.

It makes sense that we would look at this differently. You spend a lot of your time using/enjoying metered combat. I have spent a lot of my time on empty sims that are the general fallout of metered combat.

Gor is already viewed as an immature RP genre and more people running around with blazing arrows only to disappear from the sim when raiding is over on their new fancy meter isn't going to improve that image and open the door for that leeching you seem to think is possible. I see this new meter as described only attracting low level and new non-roleplayers with the manufactured scenes that were proposed when we first started debating this idea. More mature RPers might tolerate the meter in much the same way I do the current meter but it would not be an addition to their RP. I suspect there might also be a healthy level of derision when these type of players interact...the one who is getting cues from the meter for RP and the player who enjoys crafting creative scenarios.

If you could gin up a meter that somehow could perform the role of lore master/game master then I might view this in a more positive fashion.


So basically what is happening is that we agree on the fact that a lighter can cook steak just a tad. I am saying at least it cooks it a little bit, but a stove is better. You are saying the lighter sucks and the rest of the steak is going to stay raw, and dismiss the small portion of the steak being cooked by the lighter.

What I am saying is that a few will actually become the type of roleplayers you like. But this trickle up method is too slow and too little to really do anything, and I would prefer an alternate method.

Also, you and I have spent time on the same sim you are talking about, empty sim with a lot of meter activity. That doesn't mean meter activity is bad.

Kaelus had meter activity as well, just no city/sim level-raiding. So you were not partial to it all, but overall I'm sure most Kaelus admin members would agree with me that the fact that the sim was required to have a meter (to resolve personal conflicts/give the warriors something to play with in the skybox battles) was part of why it had such a high traffic.


Lydius Port started off with unmetered, it hovered around 10k and then it plummeted. By the time it went metered, it was too late.

And of course, you have sims like Amhas Cairn that do have sim level raiding, and yet have good roleplayers in it as well. They are doing well in traffic so far, and 1 liners are minimal.

Not many people like dice because there is no standard in how to use them. It is an unknown variable because you would have to agree with some 'rules' like what number means what with your RP partner. With the meter, it's pretty clear cut.

Not that I am saying dice is crap. I like dice, it's a great option to have, and I have used it in my RPs to decide personal conflicts .

But dice should always be a highly encouraged 'option', and the meter should be the decider of last resort, because it is standardized, as opposed to dice.
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Kaitlin
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Kaitlin » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:53 pm

Theoden wrote:You are making a straw man argument. I never said noble women slept around in public. But if they were caught a harlot, sleeping with many men behind the scenes, basically being a slut, she wouldn't be freaking collared, stripped and made to be a slave for the rest of her life. She would just be shunned, maybe.
With such a drastic contrast in consequences towards expression of a key human behavior of one of the two sexes, you can't really argue that they are almost exactly the same.


I've never argued that the consequences were the same although I could argue there are certainly similarities. What I have argued pretty clearly is that the RP of the roles is pretty much the same. It is one of the reason that many players who played in Gor can easily make the transition. No straw here.

Theoden wrote:Maybe we are talking in circles. Let me for arguments sake quantify it.

1 to 10

Gor high caste FW 5
GoT nobles 6


You, I am thinking, are making it

Gor high caste FW 5.50
GoT nobles 5.75

Is that right or am I off?


I like being right. :lips:

Theoden wrote:I have no boots, and there are no hug emotes. Your argument is invalid :D :fryingpan:


Image :sabina:

Theoden wrote:Kaelus had meter activity as well, just no city/sim level-raiding. So you were not partial to it all, but overall I'm sure most Kaelus admin members would agree with me that the fact that the sim was required to have a meter (to resolve personal conflicts/give the warriors something to play with in the skybox battles) was part of why it had such a high traffic.


Lydius Port started off with unmetered, it hovered around 10k and then it plummeted. By the time it went metered, it was too late.


What is with you and Glaucon creating antagonists where none exist?

Kaitlin wrote:I think you need combat as part of the sim picture and starting out as a non-metered sim is asking to get relegated to the bottom of the pile for consideration (Lydius is a good example)
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
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Re: Traffic and you

Postby Glaucon » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:40 pm

Kaitlin wrote:What is with you and Glaucon creating antagonists where none exist?


Perhaps you should consider the possibility that it isn't really us. Maybe it is something you do.

When you stand up and go 'Objection, your honour!' at every point, people are going to think you are arguing the other side. Maybe your real position is some very nuanced, reasonable middle-ground one. But if it is, that is hard to tell when you seem to be going all-out against other nuanced, reasonable positions.

Now, I don't mind it so much when you or others interpret what I say as some extreme that isn't really my position (like me being a champion of single-line RP-ing or pew pew or whatever). It is understandable, since I often argue against views shared by some fans of full-para RP. So, I don't think you should be all that surprised about being seen as a defender of an extreme para-RP, 'true-gor', anti combat and anti cross-sim RP position. Maybe that isn't your 'stated opinion'. But when it appears that you are always offering arguments that seem to go one way, and always pick up the gauntlet, and only express agreement with others when their arguments point the same way, people are going to take the direction of your arguments as indicative of your position. It is only natural. And you always do it with me. So, you should not protest so much when it is done to you.

As for the GoT sims: I never played there. As the song goes: I read the fucking books. And I never figured they would make for a great RP theme, even after there was the TV show and everyone 'jumped on the fucking band-wagon' and sims with that theme popped up, suddenly. I have nothing against RP revolving around court-intrigue. I like reading about that stuff in books. Including non-fiction books. But maybe I have read a bit too much about the non-fiction part of that to think it is the sort of setting easily recreated within SL with the sort of realism I'd like to see. Now, if people managed to do it, and had fun with it, more power to them. But, personally, for me, that sort of setting is not the easiest and most natural setting within an SL RP environment. A setting in which Tarzan meets Jane and Chimp, in which no assumed NPC's or pre-arranged story-lines are required seems to be a more 'ideal model' for RP.

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