Attention-Whores!!!

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Attention-whores are

The bane of Gor
2
4%
The bane of Gor
2
4%
Really annoying
1
2%
Really annoying
1
2%
Annoying but not everyone called a A.-W. is one.
12
24%
Annoying but not everyone called a A.-W. is one.
12
24%
Not much of an issue.
3
6%
Not much of an issue.
3
6%
A bracket category used by bitchy, jealous players.
7
14%
A bracket category used by bitchy, jealous players.
7
14%
Other.
0
No votes
Other.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 50
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Manon Seid
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Manon Seid » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:43 pm

My name is Manon Seid and i am an attention whore. Which is why i roleplay. Else i would write a book.

The term is pretty much the most idiotic term the sl gor community has come up with. Disney comes close and was once just as viral, but this definitely takes the prize. I would find it hard finding another more vicious and roleplay killing term. I am left with the theory that people using this kind of words about their fellow roleplayers must be either evil to the bone or just plain stupid. Not sure which is worse.

I bet one of the reasons people find it so hard to just cruise through sl gor finding good roleplay can thank this term and the approach to roleplay that this is the ultimate expression of.
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Hawt Sommer

Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Hawt Sommer » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:49 pm

Manon Seid wrote:My name is Manon Seid and i am an attention whore. Which is why i roleplay. Else i would write a book.


You have heard the term: "Too much of a good thing?" Well sometimes you can have too much of something that you think is good.

Try sitting in a room with four or five of your fellow attention whores for an hour.

I'll have your migraine medication waiting for you when you get out.
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RavingRob
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby RavingRob » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:00 pm

Kaitlin wrote:...



Words of wisdom!
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Frevet
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Frevet » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:04 pm

The thread's title would have been funnier like this: Attention, whores!
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Glaucon
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Glaucon » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:06 pm

@ Manon: I can only agree (but then again, when did I NOT agree with you? It is almost scary. :o.O: ).

@ Hawt: 5 extroverts in a room can be exhaustive. But 5 introverts in a room can get really quiet.

Frankly, when it comes to RP, I'd rather watch the 5 extroverts. At least there would be sure to be something to watch.

@ Fervet: Yep. My bad.
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Manon Seid
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Manon Seid » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:37 pm

How kind of you Hawt! Anyone who will provide me plenty pain killers during a migrene are angels in my book :D

I am not sure why i would get a migrene after being in that room? I can imagine a lot of ping pong roleplay strange twists in storylines i had not anticipated and all ....but...i kinda find that fun. No doubt about it that i will be exhausted when i get back to earth but a migrene?

Well unless the definition of an attention whore is actually someone who dont understand the concept of the ping pong in roleplay and only read their own rp.....but....thats got nothing to do with other peoples attention does it? Its sort of the opposite since they only see themselves and noone else. I would find that annoying yea - but theres a really easy fix to that - i assume i know where the door is in that room. Why would i need to slam some vicious term on those players?

I have been a panther girl leader for years. I am used to driving storylines and as an enslaved character i find it really really hard to not just go on roleplaying as i did for so long. I bet i am seen as one of those annoying ones *shrugs* tough luck. I nearly drove Vio crazy a few days back introducing a new storyline in her band :P sorryyy Vio! I promise i will continue it all when i get back home!

Glaucon: :lips: :heart: :grind: Can we do a threesome with my pain killer pusher?? :P
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Violetta Daviau » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:30 am






Glaucon wrote:
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I really dislike the term 'Attention-whore'. And I don't like it not just because it is a rude term, but because I feel it is a loose term that tends to cover behavior by players that covers a range of things, from obviously annoying ways of RP-ing to ways of RP-ing that I would rate as pretty positive.

Some examples of stuff that people call others 'attention whores' over:

- Someone playing a 'special snowflake' character. Someone with a role that would be exceptional within the theme they are playing in. I don't see how someone doing that would automatically be seeking attention. Maybe they were just being overly creative when putting together their background. Maybe they didn't understand the theme. But whatever their background is, they could as well be very reserved and even shy players as the opposite.
- People that up-stage others in RP. This, I feel, is a 'suspect' accusation. It comes from the world of theatre. If one actor or actress (or performer) manages to impress the audience and attract more attention than the 'main act' or actor/actress playing the lead role, they are said to be 'upstaging them'. it is clearly related to jealousy/envy. Now, if one RP-er feels attention drawn away from him or her because the RP of another RP-er, it might be annoying to them, but... people are free to focus their attention on anyone they like. And it might just be that the other player is offering RP that is just more interesting to them. Who knows? Maybe that other RP-er is just a better RP-er, or at least one whose RP is of more interest to other people.
- People that break into RP ongoing RP-scenes (walk up to people already engaged in RP) and come up with RP (often without waiting to see what is going on) that interupts the RP of those already engaged, often because the RP they offer would, by virtue of the content, take priority. For example, while the others are having a deep conversation, another person comes up and brings up something really shocking or pertaining to something that is naturally 'urgent' and so forth. This can be annoying, obviously. Then again, it makes for a level of realism as well. This WOULD HAPPEN, on Gor, ongoing events/conversations being interupted. And there might be valid reasons for it. Some CHARACTERS might just 'be like that', more abbrasive, not caring about what others are up to, demanding of attention. And some people might actually NEED TO BE this way because of the role they play. An Ubar should NOT be afraid to interupt the ongoing conversation between one of his warriors and a slave, however much the players are all equal, OOCly. It is needed for the players of people with certain roles to dare to disrupt things if there is going to be any kind of IC organization as well.
I also feel that this dislike of 'interuptions' can stiffle RP. Sure, it can be annoying. But often, the events that interupt the usual goings on are also a source of RP themselves. Often, these events can liven things up, create a feeling of unpredictability. For every one player that resents their RP being interupted, there are probably two players that are glad to see something 'happening' (after all, the mosten heard complaint about RP in SL Gor is boredom).
- Someone using an avi that is too handsome/pretty/sexy (I haven't seen this argument used in a while, but I have seen it used in the past). No need to explain why that objection is based on envy.
- Extrovert characters. Again... while this type of character is likely to annoy some players, others will find that these characters tend to liven things up considerably.
- Other women. Given the proportions within SL Gor these days, it makes some players of female characters, eager for attention from male characters, might find the mere presence of other female characters annoying, and why they would be likely to see the other player as an attention thief. This will be especially true for those players of female characters that aren't interested in interacting with other female characters.
- Players offering non-written 'prods' to try to engage others to RP with them. Like people shooting bows into cities from afar, without any concrete purpose. Legitimate thing to complain about, I think.
- People that just do their own thing without paying any attention to the RP of others. This, to me, would appear to be a legitimate thing to complain over.

All in all, I believe that what most people call 'attention-whore' behavior isn't all that clear. And it is clear to me that a lot of those that are tend to throw this insult out are at least partially motivated by simple envy. I see it as a suspect term.

Also, the term itself automatically implies an 'attention-shortage', an economy of 'attention' with it being in short supply and people fighting over this 'scarce good', resenting those that 'demand' more than their due, guarding their own 'fair share' jealously. The prime motivator behind that is what I would call 'attention-envy'. I believe it is a pretty unhealthy thing. And I do think it plays a more significant in SL Gor today than it did many years ago (which probably has to do with the changed male-female proportions).

So, what is the dividing line between 'bad attention-seeking' RP and good RP that also 'gets attention'? I guess it is not easy to pin-point that. Maybe one might say that 'demanding attention' outright is tricky. But people resenting those that 'COMMAND attention' is pretty petty as well. All in all, I'd say that the term 'attention-whore' should be ditched, because it can cover anything, really. Were Ghandi and Jesus Christ attention-whores as well?


Interesting to see a thread about this very topic, or rather a topic of this kind, by you, Glaucon. Are you not usually the one to preach "interaction for all costs", "let everyone play what they want"? That impression you surely left in me, and now you yourself present a topic about balance and curtesy in RP.

Commenting on some points of your definition:
"- Someone playing a 'special snowflake' character. Someone with a role that would be exceptional within the theme they are playing in. I don't see how someone doing that would automatically be seeking attention. Maybe they were just being overly creative when putting together their background. Maybe they didn't understand the theme. But whatever their background is, they could as well be very reserved and even shy players as the opposite."
While I do not fully agree with Frevet's assessment of this point, I see where she comes from. Every snowflake WANTS to be unique, but not every unique IS a snowflake - that is the wonder of personality.
All in all there is a similar topic in Pen&Paper RPGs, advancement focused MMORPGs and other games: "Class Balance". In SL roleplay it is "Role Balance". And as written in another thread, I hold the opinion that the players of that special roles are in charge and responsible - just as everyone else - to play their exclusive role as theme authentic as everyone else, even though it may be much more challenging in the long run, and that mostly due to the RP habbits as commonly spread throughout SL Gor.
Yet playing an exceptional / exclusive / snowflake - however one names it - role does not automatically translate into being an attention whore. I think that such attribute is far more spread amongst those who pour out the typical potential-for-hero background of sadness: parents slain, enslaved then escaped, companioned but without love, driven away from home, orphanage, the most poor of the poor, etc etc. Those players often do not know how else to make their presence plausible in the first place and then aim for compassion.

"...An Ubar should NOT be afraid to interupt the ongoing conversation between one of his warriors and a slave, however much the players are all equal, OOCly. It is needed for the players of people with certain roles to dare to disrupt things if there is going to be any kind of IC organization as well."
No, clearly no! Unless we construct a situation in which this very one warrior is directly spoken about by the messenger to the Ubar, is the only to hold a certain skill, is visible to the Ubar, and it is a matter pressing of extreme player interaction urgency ("in RL ten minutes the impaler runs through Lady X's body, come, warrior of Ar, we must hurry!") etc. etc., there is absolutely no need to press into another player group's RP. Usually what is brought is either trivial or poses no problem for all involved if one reacts/continues on it an hour, a day, or even a week later. The warrior being with his slave might give her a play of intensity, a play she considers a milestone in her slavery and is very planned and stylish layed out with a lot of effort. If anyone in that then is an A.W. it is the ubar...

"- Other women. Given the proportions within SL Gor these days, it makes some players of female characters, eager for attention from male characters, might find the mere presence of other female characters annoying, and why they would be likely to see the other player as an attention thief. This will be especially true for those players of female characters that aren't interested in interacting with other female characters."
A sad truth I fear, yet not so much based on gender envy, but much more also on lack of creativity, self limited (by intend or missing skill) options of what things "are fun to be roleplayed" (I could never really do the same day after day after day again, it would be so dull). People are so needy for the fem/male interaction, often have so little creativity of what else to do, of what else could be Gor, that by the very "adhering" to that they drive away their men. Isn't it ironic...?


Manon Seid wrote:My name is Manon Seid and i am an attention whore. Which is why i roleplay. Else i would write a book.

The term is pretty much the most idiotic term the sl gor community has come up with. Disney comes close and was once just as viral, but this definitely takes the prize. I would find it hard finding another more vicious and roleplay killing term. I am left with the theory that people using this kind of words about their fellow roleplayers must be either evil to the bone or just plain stupid. Not sure which is worse.

I bet one of the reasons people find it so hard to just cruise through sl gor finding good roleplay can thank this term and the approach to roleplay that this is the ultimate expression of.


It is a matter of definition. NOT being an attention whore does NOT mean to sit calmly in one's corner and solely play with the own bits and toys, i.e. not the desire to play with others. It is not even the intrusion of other player's roleplay.

It is far more the high frequency, selfish, respectless demand towards others to pay you attention, usually done by a strong and/or frequent approach without care what is actually currently done. Strong in a sense of the reason being presented, which is usually a matter of urgency or else just invasive. I.e. on the other side, a paga girl coming now and then to the table to ask if you want some more to drink is not attention whoring - unless she does that every second emote (while I would try to include the paga girl elsehow so that she is not alone or feels ignored, but that is me).

What makes the term idiotic is the ABuse of it in SL: Slave players wanting to participate in play - which is their best right as players - instead of being forced to sit silently, emotionless in the back, being called A.W. is such a case. One can include others, especially if one does not reduce one's own RP to the lowest standards. On the other side one cannot include everyone at all times. A FM making a baby with his FW-FC maybe cannot have the kajira in his room and include her much...

Alone that wandering through SL Gor is often a problem in itself. People have no patience for their groups. I have seen it so often: People log on, leave their home after 5-10 minutes "because no one is there to play with", 10 minutes later the next logs on and does the same. But if their leader tried for RP schedules to sync all that, they felt restricted in their RL freedom...
Also the entire wandering often comes at the expense of authenticity - and that is then near as often not caught by the RP given lore & reasons of the wanderer. "What are you doing here, lone, unowned kajira?" - "I am just wandering Gor to seek a nice owner, master." or: "I am a paga girl from Ar, but it is a calm day there, so I took the ship to visit a friend kajira/FW here in Turia"...

Anyways, according to your words I must be "evil to the bone or just plain stupid" as I do label some people with this term, similar to "Cap Whores". Yet I do it if I consider it rightful and proven to do it. I do not call them such at the first instance of their approach/doing, I do not call them such just because they or their character have a certain gender or they play a certain role.
Back in Clearchus for example, in the predecessor of my today's band, we had a member who ran out, daily, to have her shootout with the local male outlaws. Rarely she came back with a captive, yet more often we saw her vanish behind the gates of their camp. And commonly it took no 30 minutes after getting free before she ran out again to try for the next havoc and getting laid, at times two or three times a day. That was a clear cap whore.


Aside... if I would wander with the goal to find good roleplay (which I have done in the past on other avatars and as other roles)... I would not directly approach a bunch of other players, but I would get into chat range and do my thing there, nothing of urgency, nothing invasive, maybe a friendly brief nod to greet them. A good roleplayer, being there with maybe one or two others, would know that I would like to join in to their play as else there is noone in range I could have directed my emote at. But they still can decide if they can have me or want me in their play or not - and for the case of a clear or sad "no", hint at such in his next emote.


Manon Seid wrote:...I nearly drove Vio crazy a few days back introducing a new storyline in her band :P sorryyy Vio! I promise i will continue it all when i get back home!...


Yes, you did, and it actually exactly what I want my members to do.
It burns me out if I have to do that all by myself permanently. But I am so not used to others doing it at all... my Se in Rive tried once and I did not understanding that she had just tried to create a story we could persue. I guess I somewhat intimidated her OOC by apparently neglecting her tries...
When Manon did this lately, I was still so used of having to be... being expected to be... the only one to ever have to create&run the roleplays maybe even sim wide... I had to slap my fingers in RL to not suppress her or to not neglect/ignore her story due to own fear about the unknown new "co-drivers". I love it!

Read up the RPs on the blog, Manon - I did start, including a current captive - already by checking if the rumors are right... you might love to read that play hehe...
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Violetta Daviau » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:56 am

One more thing...

Manon Seid wrote:...I have been a panther girl leader for years. I am used to driving storylines and as an enslaved character i find it really really hard to not just go on roleplaying as i did for so long...


That is another problem often seen in SL: Players of slaves being forced to sit rather silent in the corner or to emote to themselfes, and players abusing that role to justify either a lack of creativity or to be passive entertainment receivers.

Creating and leading a roleplay does not mean one has to do everything on one's own, to be the hero of the story. It stands rather more for leading the plot where player interaction else gets stuck, to enrich the plot by new coincidences occuring, be they based on nature (weather, animals, falling roofing shingles, etc.), NPCs or other random findings.

There is no problem for a slave player to do that and then to participate based on her role. (S)he could be together with a bunch of free, but include into her emote something like "Hidden on top of the locker lays the key to the mysterious box - from her position, kneeling at her owner's feet, she cannot see it, surely though a tall man could..." or "distressed and afraid she stumbles after her owner, embarassed to the core by being paraded naked through the streets of Victoria - just glad it is not Ar which once was her homestone, as suddenly a {NPC rival throws a foul Larma at her owner, domesticated young sleen jumps him aiming to bite his ankle with its dirty snout, etc.}..."

The point is that a player of a slave should be - just as everyone else - careful to have their RP additions be plausible. Too many, and I made the mistake already as well, play the hero or compassion card: A slave laying wounded on the street is of no much interest to react on for free Goreans usually. A slave squealing that another had slapped a third neither, and a slave jumping heroicly into an arrow to save a free under risk for her own life will mostly likely just die.

And in that game mastering, story running, lore telling, however one calls it, is no attention whoring, it is only roleplaying, teamworking, community sensing... ooh, and one should keep a balance of catastrophies occuring, else they wear thin on people and one indeed risks to turn into an attention whore.
There are plenty of things one can add, even as a slave, when the situation suits it: Fun little side occurances, mistakes, catastrophies, crimes and acts of honor...

Alone that last word suddenly gives an idea already... a slave player could well play to see many men, visitors, to the city be so utmost honorable, well mannered etc. ... and by gossiping about that maybe even instill a story in which the men of the city try their best to match all that, some to rediculous amount, some being really clumsy at it, doing it for fun though, some mocking it, and in the end there happens a city administration organized Panes Et Circenses in the arena to find out who of the most honorable men is also the best fighter, strategist, etc. ........ which could be an IC explanation for a Smith player to get his character risen into rank in the warrior caste...
And that all slave player created & guided...
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Aphris » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:34 pm

There are 100 time more attention whores in non Gor sims then in role play Gor. Think of constant screaming DJ's or pole dancers in clubs or beaches, they shout and spew gestures constantly and for hours. Gor is a heaven of silence compared to that.
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Manon Seid
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Re: Attention-Whores!!!

Postby Manon Seid » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Oh but Vio you are evil to the bone :P

Ill go read that rp - it sounds like fun.

Eeeeeeek and ok! If attention whores = those people loving gesture spamming then i would like to change my vote here. they should be shot and skinned before my migrene starts and id like to apologize to Hawt too - i had no clue what i was talking about before!

In roleplay i still would never use this ugly label. Its been overused to the point i think few dares drive storylines - especially slaves - it might even be part of the reason some seem to think roleplay is stiffled to the same old same old. It is sad if theres no room for the creative stranger any longer. I can live with a few... uhm ...selfcentered roleplayers now and then as long as theres some action around me, i dont have to put them down and call them names. Especially since quite often i am the loud roleplayer :shifty:

That said of course i agree with you Vio. Any good roleplayer joining a roleplay already happening should at least get a feel of whats going on before jumping in, but i kinda se that as roleplay basics along with no metagaming and such.
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