Would your character follow a female in power?

PLEASE READ THE RULES BEFORE POSTING!

Would your character follow a female in power?

Yes, as much as he/she would follow a man in power.
7
14%
Yes, as much as he/she would follow a man in power.
7
14%
Yes, but with reservations (explain in your post).
5
10%
Yes, but with reservations (explain in your post).
5
10%
No, never.
7
14%
No, never.
7
14%
No, unless she was truly a good leader.
2
4%
No, unless she was truly a good leader.
2
4%
My character couldn't give less of a fuck.
4
8%
My character couldn't give less of a fuck.
4
8%
 
Total votes: 50
User avatar
Lindsay Dover
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:50 pm
SL Name: Ellie Spiritor
Caste: Blue
Role: Accountant
Home Stone: Amhas Cairn
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Lindsay Dover » Tue May 07, 2013 9:50 am

HorizonNinetails wrote:Usually, however, the power is because of sim ownership - and ICly, the person can't responsibly hold the role with integrity. Those are the sims I avoid - because any conflict you put up will be negated.

And - you can also have power without title. The issue is - getting the rest of the sim to play along. I think people (including myself) are naturally selfish to some degree - they like to buck the trends to either stand out or have "their own little thing" going on.


I so do not usually agree with the sim owner also being the position of power. It leads to that person having a get out of jail free card most of the time. Torvaldsland villages makes more since as that is not an elected position but cities with castes not to much.

A thousand times yes on the power without title. I've had my share of acts that has put a few people in....situations due to my psuedo power. I can sit back and watch rather than be bombarded with decision making. We need more villians in Gor with that mindset and actually allow people to rp them.
Trying to modify my appearance RL but the fudge oreos keep causing lag.
JackoS
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:59 am
SL Name: Jacko Stawberry

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby JackoS » Tue May 07, 2013 10:20 am

No never. Furthermore, if there is a woman in power my character would try to overthrow her... and put her in her place which is with a collar around her neck. :mrgreen:
User avatar
Mynerva
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:22 am
SL Name: *****

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Mynerva » Tue May 07, 2013 11:28 am

Allison Baker wrote:Well my character would have no problem with a strong Ubara, someone along the lines of Joan of Arc or Catherine the Great, however as JN seems to have largely ignored that aspect of mankind's history my point is largely moot.



Why would he have to acknowledge those things that happened in mankind's history? The setting of his stories is not on earth.
Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden.
Rosa Luxemburg
User avatar
Mynerva
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:22 am
SL Name: *****

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Mynerva » Tue May 07, 2013 11:32 am

Pelopidas wrote:I followed a Ubara when i was in Cardonicus, she was played by a rather experienced roleplayer so i had no reservations.



Was there not an Ubar too? I know he was not there much to play - but IC he existed, right?

I believe the way things were done in Cardonicus worked at that time. But things have changed a lot - would not work anymore if done in the same way.

As far as I remember - the whole leadership thing in old Cardy was always a bit of an OOC clusterfuck.
Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden.
Rosa Luxemburg
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Kaitlin » Tue May 07, 2013 1:13 pm

Mynerva wrote:
Pelopidas wrote:I followed a Ubara when i was in Cardonicus, she was played by a rather experienced roleplayer so i had no reservations.



Was there not an Ubar too? I know he was not there much to play - but IC he existed, right?


Yes there was. The same holds true with Melisande's Imperial Ar. I don't have a problem with an Ubara who rules through an Ubar...very different dynamic than a replication of Talena or a Tatrix.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
User avatar
Pelopidas
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:49 pm
SL Name: Dion Diavolo
Location: North Greece

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Pelopidas » Tue May 07, 2013 3:28 pm

There was an Ubar but my character rarely saw him, most of his dealings were with the Ubara, the Ubara had the aura of a...Ubara so my character followed his orders.

Furthermore, Pelopidas was a barbarian of Greek origins. Him being Greek meant that he had a healthy predisposition towards being alpha/dom/leader personality while at the same time maintaining a healthy respect for strong women.

I guess the best examble i could master to explain it is a scene from 300 Spartans. In one of the first scenes the Persian messenger argues with King Leonidas and at some point the Queen cut's in, speaking her mind. The messenger is shocked demanding an explanation and the Queen answers that she can speak like that cause only Spartan women give birth to real men.

This episode highlights the degree of influence women have in Greek society even today.

The men are so supposed to be alphas, that there isnt even a distinction between men, alpha men, sub men, dom men etc. Culturally they are expected to be dom, the term male it self has that normative meaning. Yes kinda old fashioned, it also doesnt mean the men are that way really, as i said, just what's culturally expected, an identity they try to mold them selves into.

The women on the other hand, while wanting their men to be alphas, well, they are nothing like Gorean women :mrgreen: They have their place, they accept the men as leaders, they want them to be, but they yeld a tremendous degree of influence and oh boy dont you piss them off. Iv long argued that the Greek army should have send not a detachment of soldiers in Afghanistan but couple platoons of pissed Greek grandmothers and housewives :lol:

So, to sum it up, Pelopidas, the Greek, had no problem being who he was, alpha, confident, a leader, who would train men, attack cities, plot alliances and conspiracies while cracking jokes when he could, and at the same time, yes, following orders from a woman he saw as worthy of following.

Now, since the ooc thing was brought up, im talking about Gwen the character.

And to be honest, i was always more comfortable with my view which i found way more nuanced than those of the books, when it came to women in power. Well, i shouldnt say the books, i should say the purists i see dominating this topic too.

The thing is, it takes a great leap of logic and fantasy to argue that you know what your character do. You so fucking have no idea. You really dont, it would be a different universe, a different character, it would really be. So what's happening is that you got a bunch of people seeing their Gorean character through the lences of their preferences of how the rp should be. And, you guessed it, that's subjective.

So people run around saying things like "my character is doing that, doesnt follow orders from a woman cause he is Gorean" when they should be saying "my character is doing that, doesnt follow orders from a woman, cause thats why i, the person behind the character, with my very erthy preferences, want to roleplay like that".

The first sentence is an intolerant hypocrisy, the 2nd i could live with.

Ofc i had no such issues since i was playing a Greek, which, ironically, many people found very...Gorean, and when they told me such and such in ims, those free women especially, you know who you are, i took as an insult.

And i did so because people tend to read the books in black/white discotomies, they tend to find meaning they are seeking, they tend to cling to that meaning, they invest emotionaly in it, they get inspired or whatever, they get emotional, and then they tend to miss the nuances, that even those badly written books have, or they miss how re-creating an imaginary society through rp should be more nuanced, beyond the archetypes and generalizations of the books, as every real society really is.

Unless people understand that, they're gonna be quote arguing ad infinitum
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Glaucon » Tue May 07, 2013 3:40 pm

I don't quite agree with you there, Pelo. Well, not so much about the topic, but with the thing about the player not having any idea what their character would do in X situation. When you 'feel' your character a bit and 'feel' the situation a bit as well, you kinda 'feel' what they would do. Just as you can 'feel' it when a character in a book behaves (in)consistently.

Of course, you never quite KNOW if your character would really be 'gorean enough' (if it would be one more or less likely to exist on the planet Gor). My character didn't have any particular prejudices against women in power. He didn't really care. Would that make him ungorean? I don't know. I am sure there were straight men that didn't really care about other men engaging in buggery in the 1700s, whatever the common prejudice was. But hey... when you think up a fictional historical character, or a character in a fantasy setting, or even one in a fictional world that someone else thought up, you have no choice but to go with your gut feeling. In RP, there is no objective truth, only people going by those gut feelings. So.... while you don't KNOW, in one sense, you also know perfectly, because there is no truth outside of what you feel and imagine and others may feel and imagine with you.

You can't be really get it wrong if there is no real standard of what it would mean to get it right.
User avatar
Pelopidas
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:49 pm
SL Name: Dion Diavolo
Location: North Greece

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Pelopidas » Tue May 07, 2013 4:20 pm

Im not saying they get it wrong, i am saying that this purist view of rp tends to be hypocritical since it's mostly about ooc preferences. The term, Gorean, is again being used in a way to legitimize and as a consequence, delegitimize, rp preferences. Nobody is really Gorean, our characters i mean, we forget that it's arbitrary make believe what's Gorean and what's not and we fall victims to the language we use.

Don't tell me you dont see people shouting their rp preferences, their ooc preferences, through their "characters".

And when you "feel" what your character would do, well, it's just you, playing along, with what makes sense. No such thing as a Gorean character who would do this and that in Gor! We're just pretending. Trying to guess something like that would be like having a blind man trying to find a needle in the Sahara desert. Too many known unknowns and too many unknown unknowns.

And again, as someone who has been active in these debates since when, 2006? As someone who changed his mind often and tried hard to use education in order to enrich ooc rp preferences and choices im disgusted that Gorean knoweledge is once again used in a purely instrumental way as a tool of exclusion.

The OP started, claiming, that this wasnt about what's accetable in the books but in essence most replies it's about what's legitimate in the books, what's Gorean and what's not!
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Glaucon » Tue May 07, 2013 4:36 pm

You have a point. And yes... this thread does seem to be indicative of a bit of a purist 'move' against females in leadership positions. I agree with Kaitlin's reading of the books (that, on the Gor Norman describes, this would not be the norm), but I am not sure I feel it is really something that injures the 'spirit of the books', something that one should crusade against. I have always noticed the discrepancy, but I don't think that ever ruined my sense of immersion.

But... I still believe that it IS possible to try and answer this question from the perspective of one's character, not from what you feel would be btb or what you'd prefer to be the case in SL gor yourself. If you are skilled at bracketing aspects of yourself off, that is (which, I would think, most good RP-ers would be good at). Maybe the answer won't be anything 'true' beyond the subjective... but it COULD be subjectively true. And false too, if it was the poster speaking, not his or her character. Then again, if the poster always let their OOC preferences inform the character's wishes and opinions, it would become subjectively true again. :ugeek:
User avatar
Dren Bernard
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:05 pm
SL Name: Dren Bernard
Caste: Physician's
Role: On sabatical
Home Stone: Salernum
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Would your character follow a female in power?

Postby Dren Bernard » Tue May 07, 2013 5:02 pm

Pelopidas wrote:
I guess the best examble i could master to explain it is a scene from 300 Spartans. In one of the first scenes the Persian messenger argues with King Leonidas and at some point the Queen cut's in, speaking her mind. The messenger is shocked demanding an explanation and the Queen answers that she can speak like that cause only Spartan women give birth to real men.

This episode highlights the degree of influence women have in Greek society even today.



Brilliant, it reminded me of this:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIm1dYTv-mQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://youtu.be/YIm1dYTv-mQ[/youtube]

[youtube]<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YIm1dYTv-mQ?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YIm1dYTv-mQ?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>[/youtube]

[youtube]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YIm1dYTv-mQ?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube]

Well I hope one of these works for you. :pissed: on my screen no video link is formed.
Dren & Kait's Gorean Physician's resource:
http://teslikandsiproot.webs.com/

Return to “Debate It.”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron