Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slavery?

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Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slavery?

1. Yes, because ...
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42%
1. Yes, because ...
15
42%
2. No, because ...
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8%
2. No, because ...
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8%
 
Total votes: 36
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Keiser Koba
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Keiser Koba » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:01 am

Slavery on earth is grim, degrading and ugly. I've never heard of a happy slave, a slave that embraced her/his deprevation of will and freedom, and who submitted. And no, I don't see BDSM-slaves type 24/7 TPE slaves as real slaves. They can always stand up and leave.

Gorean slavery CAN be like the slavery we know on earth, but according to the female nature as described in Norman's wicked fantasy novels, women will at some point always surrender and embrace their lives as cock sheaths for immaculate handsome masters. Even Bera did, as the ultimate evidence to prove the fact that the women when allowed to, will let her clitoris take over the helm and steer her mind into divine submission.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:05 am

Keiser Koba wrote:Slavery on earth is grim, degrading and ugly. I've never heard of a happy slave, a slave that embraced her/his deprevation of will and freedom.


I don't think that is right to be honest. Earth's history has many variations on types of slaves, some had much better lives than any free person had. Egypt has roughly 90% slaves who were forced into excessive labour, but it also had a 10% of slaves who lived very lofty and luxurious lives as instructors, advisors, private guards, or some even whose job it just was to be a friend to a wealthy person.

Likewise too in Rome you had some (of the more succesful) gladiators who refused to be freed and preferred their lives in the arena... and their rewards for winning a lot.
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Keiser Koba » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:15 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:
Keiser Koba wrote:Slavery on earth is grim, degrading and ugly. I've never heard of a happy slave, a slave that embraced her/his deprevation of will and freedom.


I don't think that is right to be honest. Earth's history has many variations on types of slaves, some had much better lives than any free person had. Egypt has roughly 90% slaves who were forced into excessive labour, but it also had a 10% of slaves who lived very lofty and luxurious lives as instructors, advisors, private guards, or some even whose job it just was to be a friend to a wealthy person.

Likewise too in Rome you had some (of the more succesful) gladiators who refused to be freed and preferred their lives in the arena... and their rewards for winning a lot.
And those stories was written on parchments by scribes paid for by ... ?? Yeah, right. It's the winners who write history, not the slaves. But even if they were holding some truth, those stories are referring to a world very different form ours and our (or at least mine) conceptions of slavery. I don't think they would be defined as slaves, more as employees.
Last edited by Keiser Koba on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Mynerva » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:17 am

Keiser Koba wrote:Slavery on earth is grim, degrading and ugly. I've never heard of a happy slave, a slave that embraced her/his deprevation of will and freedom, and who submitted. And no, I don't see BDSM-slaves type 24/7 TPE slaves as real slaves. They can always stand up and leave.

Gorean slavery CAN be like the slavery we know on earth, but according to the female nature as described in Norman's wicked fantasy novels, women will at some point always surrender and embrace their lives as cock sheaths for immaculate handsome masters. Even Bera did, as the ultimate evidence to prove the fact that the women when allowed to, will let her clitoris take over the helm and steer her mind into divine submission.


:yeahthat:

Earth slavery and gorean slavery? Not the same at all.

Well - when a gorean man is enslaved - it can be like earth slavery. Male silk slaves would be the exception to this rule - the exception which is against gorean nature.

For women - slavery means freedom and fulfillment as a rule. The exception is the woman who does not find that happiness and true freedom in slavery. But when that happens in the novels it is usually the fault of the men who keep such a slave and do not treat her according to her nature - or is a fw owns the slave.

So no - not the same, not even in the same universe.

Do the gorean novels romanticize slavery? Absolutely! That is what most of the stories are all about. That is what the whole gorean thing is about!
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Kaitlin » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:34 am

Keiser Koba wrote:Slavery on earth is grim, degrading and ugly. I've never heard of a happy slave, a slave that embraced her/his deprevation of will and freedom, and who submitted. And no, I don't see BDSM-slaves type 24/7 TPE slaves as real slaves. They can always stand up and leave.

Gorean slavery CAN be like the slavery we know on earth, but according to the female nature as described in Norman's wicked fantasy novels, women will at some point always surrender and embrace their lives as cock sheaths for immaculate handsome masters. Even Bera did, as the ultimate evidence to prove the fact that the women when allowed to, will let her clitoris take over the helm and steer her mind into divine submission.


:perfect10:

In Rome, the south, and countless other areas where slavery may have been the norm I can't imagine any of those slaves crawling over to pick up a whip in their mouth and bring it back to beg to be whipped. I also don't see them almost cumming just because they were naked and exposed to the sight of of a man...any man. Night and Day.
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Lokia Spiritor » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:20 am

Keiser Koba wrote:And those stories was written on parchments by scribes paid for by ... ??


You're assuming there was some sort of moral issue within Rome, with a large number of people denouncing the games at the time..... The truth is that everyone loved them; and no one needed to lie about them. People went there in droves to see people forced to fight for their lives to the death and be slaughtered for their own amusement..... and now people need to be bribed to make it sound less wrong? Yeah... I think I'm gonna go with common sense and generations of historians dedicating their lives to discovering the truth about history, not conspiracy theories that all of known history is a lie.
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Mynerva » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:00 pm

Lokia Spiritor wrote:
You're assuming there was some sort of moral issue within Rome, with a large number of people denouncing the games at the time..... The truth is that everyone loved them; and no one needed to lie about them. People went there in droves to see people forced to fight for their lives to the death and be slaughtered for their own amusement..... and now people need to be bribed to make it sound less wrong? Yeah... I think I'm gonna go with common sense and generations of historians dedicating their lives to discovering the truth about history, not conspiracy theories that all of known history is a lie.



When asking the question if gorean slavery and earth slavery are the same - it makes no difference if Romans thought slavery or sending people into the arena was wrong. As was pointed out before - gorean slavery for women was a form of liberation and allowing a woman to truly find happiness.

But anyway - I am pretty sure you do not know if "everyone" in Rome loved the games. I am also pretty sure the poeple who were killed in the arena and their families knew very well how wrong it was.
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:24 pm

Well he does have a point though with the idea that history and our perception of history is heavily tainted with our current "believes". I think perhaps people have a too westernized idea of what slavery used to mean back in the days. The picture exists perhaps in the modern west that slavery was 'all horrible' and horrendous etc. I'm not trying to claim it was all great either, but it wasn't quite as horrible, all the time, as people maybe believe.

When slavery got abolished, in no matter which country, there wasn't suddenly a huge change in how those people got treated. Employees didn't suddenly stop getting beaten and whipped because the state no longer recognized the status of slave officially. The lowest class in the middle ages didn't have lifestyles that were much different from the slaves who used to do their work before them.

There is obviously the point made that gorean slavery is a lot more sex-oriented, I'll have to admit that, but besides that I don't think there need to be much differences in social status and interactions between how it happened on earth and on Gor. I think even in Gor, even if the slavery was more openly sexual than on earth, you'd still have the cases of slaves besides that not always being treated much differently ... eg. the physical punishments, the loss of rights and protections, etc. but also the good parts, the rare occassions where slaves managed to hold influence and notable respect etc.
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby Elle Couerblanc » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:27 pm

Gorean Slavery is complete Bullshit. Slavery, REAL slavery - not a consentual relationship between two people, is not romantic.

Although, to superficially compare the earthen concept of slavery to Gorean, I would have to say in structure it could be similar: Work slaves, matt and kettle slaves and perhaps even passion slaves existed on earth. But if slavery was really so grand as Norman proposes, why would the human race be fighting against slavery for thousands of years?

@Anarch. Yes I agree the abolishment of slavery did not create insta - happiness. Look at american history. We are still fighting against engrained belief systems and stereotyped perceptions of others. But we have come a long way - just not reached the end goal yet.
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Re: Does gorean slavery have to be different from earth slav

Postby TheReader » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:26 pm

This is a very hard question to answer really, after some though I realized there should be a difference yes.
The main reason behind this is that slavery on Earth has passed through many forms during history, starting from the whip to numerous ancient bound captives, dept prisoners, forced labor, slave trades, till morgages that can force your life somewhere you did not wish to go. I can't see the same diversity in Gor, yes there are different kinds of slaves, bonds, pleasure, fighting, high slaves but it is represented in one form during one era where the stories take place. So it's hard to compare that to another one with decades of history on Earth.
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