Script Count Enforcers are making the problem WORSE

[Erik]

I've been years in I.T. and I -know- how the SL Grid works. I know how networking works. I know how servers work. Knowing these thing in the general paradigm of computer networking, and then following Linden lab very closely since 2006 on how they have the grid set-up and functioning... I can say I firmly - very firmly - believe these script-count-enforcer tools are actually creating more problem than they are solving.

Cyprianus used them (and - omg - in the worst possible way: as scanners every 30 meters or so) - Turia is using them (in collision mode) at the in/out points of the sim proper - possibly other places I don;t know. Perhaps other sims are using these, I don't know.

But here's the issue...and the problem. First, about how the sim server actually handles scripts.

The server handles a lot of different things: serving prim descriptions for your viewer to build, serving textures to give color, tracking your avatar position, tracking other avatar positions, tracking the prims and textures of every visible attachment on avatars, tracking your movement, coordinates on the sim, direction and what you are doing (moving, sitting, etc.) and the same thing for every avatar on the sim and sending all that data to every person on the sim.

And running every script on the sim.

Linden Lab - more than a year ago (I think it was even two years now) have changed the priority of scripts to the lowest level possible. This means when the server begins to stress, the very first thing it will do is slow-down running of scripts.

This means scripts will stop working BEFORE the server starts bogging down (lag appears). Since your swords, bows, collars, AO HUDs and other scripted things start stalling (because the server is slowing down script execution) YOU *think* the sim is lagging, when it's not. You can still move around and all that stuff. When lag gets so bad you can't move - it's not scripts, it's the number avatars and prims-on-avatars that are the problem. (And sculpty builds and too many different textures in the build and so on).

Prims are the biggest cause of lag, especially moving prims (and especially avatar attachment prims and scultpies make that worse - just wait until sim owners start over-doing mesh!).

Fact: the more avatars on the sim, the more lag you will experience NO MATTER how many scripts are running - even if scripts are turned completely OFF. (Really, sim owners: try it. Turn off scripts on a laggy day and see if your lag improves. IT. WILL. NOT.)

Now the problem with these script count enforcers: they add to the problem, not solve it because it is a NEGATIVE SUM scenario. The people who created thse and are selling them are using your instincts (which are actually wrong) to hood-wink you into thinking you have a tool that helps avoid lag. You don't. All you really have is a tool that just pisses off your visitors by forcing them to change things on their avatar in most cases.

And I already know there will be those who respond to this thread proclaiming I'm just whining because I wear too many scripts (umm, no - I slide though these things quite easily actually - especially since I go unarmed.)

Let's just call all the resources of a script the "script energy" for simplicity:

If a user is wearing 20% energy and the enforcer tool is using 10% energy, the user who removes 10% energy now only uses 10% energy. This is a zero-sum equation because now the user and the enforcer are each using 10% energy = 20% energy. However, you've just pissed-off the user who was forced to change their avatar in some way just to enter the sim. They get the feeling of "I guess they don;t really want me here).

Here is where it goes negative-sum: since one enforcer is practically useless, the sim owner sets out several: say 5. So let's say there is now 50% energy used in enforcing.

Four people come into the sim, each using 20% for a total of 80% energy. The enforcer forces them to remove shit - now they each use 10% energy for a total of 40% That 40% energy used by the users plus the 50% used by the enforcers is 90%.

However, if the users were allowed to just wear their 20% each and the enforcers were NOT there, total energy would be 80% - 10% LESS.

So these script scount enforcers are actually back-firing against their stated goal of "reducing lag" (they technically create MORE lag) and it's moot because scripts are the lowest server priority so they don;t actually contribute to lag anyway, making these enforcers even worse.

So, to all you sim owners with the knee-jerk instinct to use these thing, please know that when I visit your sims and if I am actually told to remove attachments to lower my script count, the FIRST SCRIPTS I WILL DETACH WILL BE MY METER AND HUD. So I hope you are a meter-optional sim. -snickers-

So there it is. Now I'm curious if any of you have been "forced" to remove attachments or huds and whatnot in order to enter a sim. And if you have - did you just reattach them once inside? OR, did you just say "fuck this" and TP out to the next sim on your sim-hopping list?

[Anarch Allegiere]

That is the biggest load of pseudo-technical misinformation I've read in a good time. Congratulations.

Most of the script tools do not even remotely use """""10%""""" 'energy' , more like 0,05% last i checked. (Yes even the radars.)

(I'm a Civil Engineer in ICT by the way)

[Erik]

That is the biggest load of pseudo-technical misinformation I've read in a good time. Congratulations.

Most of the script tools do not even remotely use to """""10%""""" , more like 0,05% last i checked.

(I'm an Civil Engineer in ICT by the way)

What you are doesn't matter. How Linden Lab servers work does matter. And since you appear to have difficulty with comprehension, I'll dumb it down for you: "10% Energy" - as it was clearly explained - is a pseudonym for simplicity sake at describing the problem.

Just because you used those tools and perhaps now realize what a waste of resources they were on your sim is no reason to get your hackles-up (but we all already know you don't like me anyway and can't resist abrasive quip replies to my posts) - all is good. Besides, your sim is sunk so the whole point relative to you is moot, isn't it?

[Anarch Allegiere]

Your last post consisted of just as many correct and valuable arguments as the OP you started the thread with. Just pointing it out. I don't know you. I don't have enough energy to truely hate people on the amazing bottom-rug of the internet. Good to know you do take it so serious though!

Got numbers to back up your statements for those of us for whom the numbers do not need numbed down for 'simplicity's' sake?

[Kaitlin]

I agree with Erik and I have had a very good laugh watching these script counters be put in place. So magic question...how do I know? Try putting on a dance event with a large number of dancers wearing a dance hud. I am fairly certain a more scripty (new word) hud doesn't exist than my huddles which is commonly used now. Depending on which copy of my Huddles I attach it can be upwards of 300 scripts and I have even tested its functionality at the Gor Hub where it ran flawlessly despite it being prime lurking time. The same was true for the other dancers wearing theirs as well which if I use the new math floating around to justify not wearing scripts or not using sim memory then we should have brought things to a screeching halt even beyond the normal lag fest.

Anyone who believes it is scripts rather than prims and avatar count has never been to a dance contest with 60 plus avatars.

You don't need numbers you need common sense and a conversation with linden rather than buying the latest script counting gadget.

It still makes sense to use economy but Cyprianus was more laggy on its emptiest day than some sims I have seen at max capacity so a reevaluation of the theory on scripts wouldn't hurt.

[ebediyet]

I love this thread, thank you so much for posting it. It is difficult at times to fully understand how complex the system in SL is, it comes across as being very simple, and for someone with an applicable amount of knowledge in scripting and IT, it probably is, but not for everyone.

I think that the script counters are a huge reason I left the Capua : Blood and Sand RP, at current I wear very few scripted objects, but it becomes bothersome when searching my inventory for something to wear, I put on an old classic and get a notice of ejection if not removed within 5 minutes. I love SL for the freedom it provides, but it feels awfully stifling with the newer regulations.

[iJudas]

Handbags gentlemen.

[Escapee]

Problem solved. All avatars must go naked. And bald. And will allow a loin cloth for men so they look like they've got attachments.

Erik. How do you explain my complete shutting down whenever I get near a scripted door and open it?

[Kaitlin]

Most lag is client side lag and I think helping users understand their settings and making changes would go a long way to improving the user experience.

Next should be a review of Arc.

[Anarch Allegiere]

It still makes sense to use economy but Cyprianus was more laggy on its emptiest day than some sims I have seen at max capacity so a reevaluation of the theory on scripts wouldn't hurt.

That has nothing to do with the script counters.

That had more to do with people not being fully aware of how to use the information regarding scripts which Linden has supplied us with to check and keep under control scriptcount.

Cyprianus had issues with too high furniture script counts in the build / decoration. And also as a consequence of too few timely restarts.

This thread is really making me want to bash my head against the wall... with so much opinions on technical things being tossed around but no actual numbers and arguments to validate the arguments. Especially the irony of your spoiler-signature added to it.