Are free women in the books hated?

[Darius of Turia]

I have been reading the books over the past several months and im currently up to players, as shown by my previous post lol, anyway i have been told before that the free women near the end get softer and more likable..... i don't see it. Not only that the farther down the line i get i find more and more rhetoric from the story about how men cant stand free women and wish they were all enslaved, that they are ignored or scorned even and i don't think tarl has met one free women that he didn't enslave or otherwise strip and/or fuck. Also the books seem to state free women are all just slaves that haven't been collared yet, that they all want it and work hard to avoid admitting it but their lives are unfulfilled, unhappy, pointless, and utterly useless until enslaved. Is there really so little hope for free women in the books of gor?

[Idunn Sabra]

I adore your cohones for bringing it for depate.

[Rayzor McAuley]

Lara, Tatrix of Tharna got more likeable toward the end of Outlaw of Gor. The girl from Green Cliffs wasn't enslaved because Tarl acted as her champion in Marauders of Gor. Bera was only enslaved by the end of Marauders by the actions of the Kurii, otherwise she may well have remained free.

[Darius of Turia]

Well books 1 - 5 i say tarl was looking at gor through "rose colored glasses" cus thats what it seemed like till he got himself enslaved in book 6. and it seems a fw isnt happy untill shes enxperianced slavery and such, and only in that slavery is she truely happy. which is the case for most.

[Idunn Sabra]

A happy free woman that remains free and remains happy in her freedom... it would be a serious hit in the ideal men's world described by JN.

All these quotes about how to girl need her master to understand herself/sexuality/submission/world/whatever and that without HIM she would not experience real love/pleasure/herself/whatever would be kind of.. pointless.

JN had agenda. We (women) should believe that we are nothing without our men. And we need them far more than air , water and food. We need them so much that we will kneel and give ourselves away fully. IF not we are frigid, uppity AND MISERABLE bitches without chances to be happy how long we refuse to accept we need our men.

LOL

[Thyri]

From the way I interpreted FW in the later books, I think JN was pushing more the war angle of this stories (not to mention skipping parts of wars and then getting back to them in later books... freakin infuriating but ANYWAY). And from a war perspective, women were the spoils of war.

I dont think the FW was "hated" but I think she was projected to be a very unhappy person. Which could be true. I dont think he painted FW as absolutely joyous in their frigidity. I think though that he created a very clear line between what was free and what was slave.

The slave characters also got a little more depth to them as the books went on. They went from basically brainless bimboes (despite him saying men wanted intelligent slaves) to characters with depth. The FW however was not hated but was more of a curiosity.

I think Norman did hate the model for their FW character. The 1960's feminist. The anti-sexual female. He painted the free woman as a not attractive woman (not beautiful enough to be a slave) and there was clearly a bias against the free woman. But I think that was essential in his satire.

[Aphris]

In Nomads of Gor many women were freed and were free at the end of the book.
- Dina of Turia
- Aphris of Turia
- the Turian mother of Kamchak, FC of Kutaituchik
- all the Tuchuk girls enslaved at the Love Wars were freed after the fall of Turia, with the exception of Hereena
- Elisabeth Caldwell

[Adoveea Rau]

Laughs!!
Love the posts. I would agree with all of them.
Thoughout all the books you don't see the *hate* of the free woman's personality, you see the hate of free woman's sexual frustration condition by both women and men. Because in Gor that the free woman IS sexually repressed.
Strip off all the pretty words, storylines etc. and you find *grin* the statement "get her laid well and often with many orgasms, with attention from many men who seeing her, want her and she'll be a much better and loveable woman".

In Gor, this can't happen until she's in collar, her whole society role is built around keeping her from being wanton, wild and sexual.

And yes, almost every single women is freed from collar and offered companionship from the man. Verna the panther by Marlenus, Aprhis of Turia by Kamchak, Relius and Virginia, on and on the love stories of gor go.
So that points out it's not the personality or role of the free woman that is hated, but the *crippling* of her sexuality. Once that is *fixed* she might becomes a free woman again and some just stay in collar.

[Charlotte]

Every major free woman female character in the books is the Exception to Norman's rule's. Statistically, these women represent less than 1% of the free females on Gor. Sort of like, in RL, we only hear about over-achievers (or massive under-achievers) in the news, and movies are never made about the basic boring soccer mum to which nothing noteworthy happens, similarly, a 'liked' free woman would be rather boring, therefore not storyworthy.

Its a let-down, sure, that he's created such a one-dimensional subgroup in the society, but yeah, his bitchy FW are there to prove his point, not to represent how complete his utopian society is.

[Hawt Sommer]

"Free her," I said.
Samos, with a general key, one used for many of the gray collars, unlocked the band of steel which encircled her lovely throat.
"Am I truly free?" she asked.
"Yes." I said.
"I should have brought a thousand of gold," she said. "As daughter of Marlenus of Ar my companion price might be a thousand tarns, five thousand tharlarion!"
"You are no longer the daughter of Marlenus of Ar," I told her.
"You are a liar," she said. She looked at me contemptuously.
"With your permission," said Samos, " I shall withdraw.
"Stay," said I, "Samos."
"Very well," said he.
"Long ago," said I, "Talena, we cared for each other. We were companions."
"I was a foolish girl, who cared for you," said talena. " I am now a woman."
"You no longer care for me?" I asked.
She looked at me. "I am free," she said. "I can speak what I wish. Look at yourself! You cannot even walk. You cannot even move your left arm! You are a cripple, a cripple! You make me ill! Do you think that one such as I, the daughter of Marlenus of Ar, could care for such a thing? Look upon me. I am beautiful, Look upon yourself. You are a cripple. Care for you? You are a fool, a fool!"
"Yes," I said bitterly, " I am a fool."
She turned away from me, robes swirling. Then she turned and faced me. "Slave!" she sneered.
" I do not understand," I said.
" I took the liberty," said Samos, "though at the time I did not know of your injuries, your paralysis, to inform her of what occured in the delta of the Vosk." My right hand clenched. I was furious.
"I am sorry," said Samos.
~Marauders of Gor

She was freed and then worked with the Kurri in order to march on Torvaldsland. Ignorant to their interests in penning up all the female slaves of Torvaldsland to eat them. ~Yes Eat all of the female slaves of Torvaldsland.

Are women hated? I don't think he hated her at all. But some women free'd are not only big fuggin biotches, but a detriment.

But in this quote. You can plainly see that the theme of Goreans respecting strength and despising weakness is quite prevalent.