Is -not- thought emoting bad?

PLEASE READ THE RULES BEFORE POSTING!
User avatar
Anarch Allegiere
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:01 am
SL Name: Anarch Allegiere

Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:54 am

Some question I've been pondering myself.

Let's say that I tend to perhaps add a bit too much thoughts to my roleplay as to give insights to my character, but I noticed some other people don't do it at all and some even worse avoid thought emoting up to the point where they are narratively lieing. Emoting that they give genuine smiles, that they are honest, that they are showing certain emotions that are convenient at the time to convince someone while in fact from an objective narrative point of view that isn't true at all.

Ultimately, I'm just wondering now whether this is 'alright' to emote like that and then to throw a massive 'plot twist' into the mix suddenly revealing the man wasn't as genuine and nice as his narrative explained? Or whether it's a form of ... cheating?

Then again, I'm also wondering if women might not just get off a bit on the idea that they were lied to and charmed and suddenly find the trap snatch shut around them? Maybe it adds a bit of OOC spice to the mix in the end, and it's great for a RP genre often as sexually oriented as SL Gor. But from a pure RP point of view it doesn't seem right to me to twist the narrative like that? It seems so hard or impossible to moderate or keep an eye on, that it might just very well become a crime I might just engage in to 'win' the storyline of my characters more often... Thoughts?
User avatar
Fortunes Cookie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:45 pm
SL Name: MingMing Charisma

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Fortunes Cookie » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:07 pm

I always try and go by 'what you see is what you get', so when I emote, I try and emote what's going on and maybe give a little context of emotion and thought that *might* be visible on an openly honest face. There's a fine line that strays into thought-emoting and moustache-twirling of course, so I think as long it makes sense and gives context to a narrative RP, it's a good thing.
User avatar
Tamar Luminos
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:06 pm
SL Name: Lamar Luminos
Caste: Gorean Subversive
Role: Roleplayer
Home Stone: Turia
Owner: Harlequin said put him

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Tamar Luminos » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:32 pm

Fft, if I get what you mean, I'm not a fan, myself. It's an OOC form of being dishonest, in my eyes and it's the sign of a poor or inexperienced roleplayer/writer. It's not that hard to write:

"/me gave the other woman what appeared to be a genuine smile" instead of "/me gave the woman a genuine smile"

The distinction is small but necessary. The first example leaves a crack open for a turnaround later. The latter is simply dishonest writing and not fair to the people they are roleplaying with if they have a turnaround in mind and it is, in fact NOT a genuine smile that their character gave but they need to fool the other person so they use ham-fisted tactics to force them to be tricked. Lazy writing, disrespectful roleplaying. Dislike.
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
http://clockworkkitteh.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Manon Seid
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:44 pm
SL Name: Manon Seid
Role: Mostly gone building mesh
Home Stone: Isle of Sin

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Manon Seid » Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:05 pm

I'm with Tamar in this. And it's perfectly exciting knowing ooc that my char is being lied to and still having him/her being tricked because he/she is completely in the dark, while i the typist is not.
A Demon Sin - Thanks for the gift Judas
User avatar
Anarch Allegiere
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:01 am
SL Name: Anarch Allegiere

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:11 pm

Tamar Luminos wrote:Fft, if I get what you mean, I'm not a fan, myself. It's an OOC form of being dishonest, in my eyes and it's the sign of a poor or inexperienced roleplayer/writer. It's not that hard to write:

"/me gave the other woman what appeared to be a genuine smile" instead of "/me gave the woman a genuine smile"


Thing is that I saw some pretty experienced good writers doing this and was given the feedback that I shouldn't "expose" the motives or "possible fakeness" of my character's words and expressions because people wouldn't buy it. That people would metagame so it would be best not to reveal anything, but better to just lie.

I'm rather of the opinion that it's dishonest.

That it's lazy etc. But I can see how it might be 'necessary' when people are absolutely convinced that other players will do anything to win at all costs and metagame you being dishonest.

So, dunno.
User avatar
Oor
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:33 pm
SL Name: Oor Breen
Home Stone: ROIAF: GoT RP

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Oor » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:16 pm

However you do it, someone is going to think you're doing it wrong. RPers in SL range from those who think dialogue-only is the best way to go and those who think that they need to harp on about the particular hue of the seventh-along sequin on their dress. Even when you have people with ostensibly the same "style" together ("para rpers" for example) they will still differ on what level of exposition is the right level.

Under any circumstances, it's important to make sure there are no narrative lies occurring, I think. "She lied" or "she said" are the same thing with different levels of exposition - as soon as you use "she said, truthfully" when your character is lying, you enter the realm of meta-/power-gaming and should be shot (or like, frowned at).

Regardless of who I'm playing with, I would tend, usually, to stay on the side of minimal narrative exposition, purely because I love those big "HOLY SHIT!" moments that happen when you're blindsided by something in RP. The "she lied" type RP is all well and good, but if my character has no real way to know whether "she" is lying, I'd rather not know myself. "She said" is fine here, and leaves me with less information (and therefore more potential for surprise/shock/misunderstanding IC).

There was a scene I played with you, Anarch, in Clearchus, where it was conceivable that your character was going to kill my character. You didn't give away anything in your narrative at the time that made it obvious whether he was actually going to kill her, and neither of us tend to talk OOC about shit that's going to happen IC, so that scene, for me, was full of tension - probably one of the more memorable scenes I've written. If your narrative had been full of "of course, he would never really kill her" type exposition while he was holding a knife to her throat, the nature of the scene would have been completely different and, in my opinion, worse.

My personal exception, I guess, is narrative exposition about background - eg: explaining in narrative that my character is reacting the way she is because of [insert trauma] in her background, or something like that - but now that I think of it, I've even curbed that in the last couple of years that I've been actively trying to keep exposition to a minimum in my RP.

Everyone's different, but I guess I tend toward, and prefer, minimal exposition in narrative. I want to put in hooks that beget questions, and I'm okay with hooks being missed and questions being left unasked (or unanswered). But when the time comes for a "reveal" - when your character is about to find out something big that they wouldn't otherwise have known? I want to blow your fucking socks off OOC, too, and give you that heart-pounding, edge-of-the-seat, what-the-fuck-is-going-on type RP - and I can't do that if I've already told you everything in narrative for the sake of word count.
I call my vagina "New Yorker cartoon" because it's dry and a handful of people have laughed at it.

Flix
User avatar
Tamar Luminos
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:06 pm
SL Name: Lamar Luminos
Caste: Gorean Subversive
Role: Roleplayer
Home Stone: Turia
Owner: Harlequin said put him

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Tamar Luminos » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:28 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:
Tamar Luminos wrote:Fft, if I get what you mean, I'm not a fan, myself. It's an OOC form of being dishonest, in my eyes and it's the sign of a poor or inexperienced roleplayer/writer. It's not that hard to write:

"/me gave the other woman what appeared to be a genuine smile" instead of "/me gave the woman a genuine smile"


Thing is that I saw some pretty experienced good writers doing this and was given the feedback that I shouldn't "expose" the motives or "possible fakeness" of my character's words and expressions because people wouldn't buy it. That people would metagame so it would be best not to reveal anything, but better to just lie.

I'm rather of the opinion that it's dishonest.

That it's lazy etc. But I can see how it might be 'necessary' when people are absolutely convinced that other players will do anything to win at all costs and metagame you being dishonest.

So, dunno.


Bleh. I don't know that I follow these other pretty experienced good writers logic on this. I'd have to respectfully disagree, thank them for their feedback, and then continue to do things in a way that I find more fair and authentic, which would be- to drop clues about hidden motives/emotions when the situation warranted it. But that's just me. If someone picks up on it and pursues it, that's fine! That's why I drop the clues in the first place, I don't ever play in such a fashion that I have a particular outcome rigidly in mind so that I HAVE to fool someone, etc. I like playing subtle, and if someone's sharp enough to pick up on my cues, so much the better!
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
http://clockworkkitteh.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Qingwen
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:32 am
SL Name: Akane Nacht

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Qingwen » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:41 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:
Thing is that I saw some pretty experienced good writers doing this and was given the feedback that I shouldn't "expose" the motives or "possible fakeness" of my character's words and expressions because people wouldn't buy it. That people would metagame so it would be best not to reveal anything, but better to just lie.

I'm rather of the opinion that it's dishonest.

That it's lazy etc. But I can see how it might be 'necessary' when people are absolutely convinced that other players will do anything to win at all costs and metagame you being dishonest.

So, dunno.



They still can't govern how people respond. So if they play it that way, they gotta take the consequences.

eg.
Person portraying a kind, gentle, harmless soul suddenly pulls a knife and cackles "A-ha! now you die!"
Person taken completely unawares due to lack of any IC cues looks down and says "That's a banana."
User avatar
Manon Seid
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:44 pm
SL Name: Manon Seid
Role: Mostly gone building mesh
Home Stone: Isle of Sin

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Manon Seid » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:23 am

I'm still with Tamar in this, but i do get what Oor and Anarch are saying.

Also in some roles being the "honest" roleplayer giving away clues that your chars are not 100% truthful in their expressions and not always honorable in their intentions WILL get you in trouble. Playing a thief on occasions it's my own experience that if you are not fine with loosing the game EVERY . SINGLE . TIME having everybody else play the heroes. Then forget about being the "honest" roleplayer. I'm still giving the clues despite the eternal looser syndrome i am therefore dealt, so i have learnt a whole lot about how to have fun prison rp.

I like the clues. They give me time to look forward to when the bomb will blow and wondering how. And sometimes the bomb wont blow in MY face and i can spend an awful lot of glorious time fantasizing on what if's :drool:
A Demon Sin - Thanks for the gift Judas
User avatar
Anarch Allegiere
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:01 am
SL Name: Anarch Allegiere

Re: Is -not- thought emoting bad?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:42 am

Manon Seid wrote:I'm still with Tamar in this, but i do get what Oor and Anarch are saying.


Hm, I don't think anyone in this thread so far was disagreeing with each other?

I think the only argument the 'other side' (people not on this forum) had was that people in RP tend to do everything to win, so... shouldn't give them the tools to. But that seems highly cynical to me, and unfair towards the people that do role play fairly and honestly. The only way role play can be won is by writing enjoyable storylines in my humble opinion. Things just get a bit complicated when there is IC competition involved and we have to factor in the behaviour of the average RPer, I guess...

Return to “Debate It.”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron