Female Assassins/Female Typists

[Alexandra Actor]

Gosh why must such a discussion topic have to come up so often? Are people really that intolerant?

Some of my female friends throughout SL have male typists behind them, some of my male friends throughout SL female typists - and I don't care.
Well I was miffed, when a close friend confessed after 1.5 years that the typist behind her was male, and told me that a certain male avi whose voice I have heard elsewhere was her alt account, created for situations when voice was needed. Of course I first felt I've been lied by a friend, and was angry, even muted him for a few days. But then I thought about it and read through the chatlogs of those 1.5 years, and I realized that he never said anything to let me believe my illusion to think he's a RL woman was correct, nor that it was wrong: he always let this part open to interpretation. But it's been his personality that made me (and everyone else in SL) believe that it's a female typist behind this female avi. Of course I unmuted him/her and apologized for my angry reaction which was so "not me", since I always have stated that it wouldn't matter to me, that I would look on the person, not on their gender... This person is still my close friend, and I respect "her" even more: a man who is not transgender at all, but can believably appear as a woman - that's quite something.

But back to Gor and to IC Roleplay.
Within the year I've been in SL-Gor, I experienced both by playing and by watching, that quite often male roles are played by women and female roles by men - I wouldn't go as far as suggesting it's about 50/50 for each one, but I believe it's way more often than we think that the typist has another gender than their avatar. And in my experience, it's often the men played by women who manage the balance between being emotional (Gorean men do hug each other and do cry in the books) and being "male" better than male characters played by men. RL Men more often have difficulties with the emotional part, and they even often prefer to play the HERO character. With "often" I don't mean "always" - there are of course male characters played by men who are even better, because they know how to be male and just exaggerate the emotional part a bit, dare to play losers, or to play out being broken or hurt.
But still I keep saying: it's nobody's business but the typist's to tell about their RL gender. And it's not our place to judge them when they do play another gender than their RL one.

How often do we suggest: if you want to do this or that, make an alt of the role-appropriate other gender (be it a male alt for playing warrior instead of a femlaw, or for playing a killer - or being a female alt for playing kajira/panther/Free when there is a lack of these roles)?
And then people scorn roleplayers who actually do gender-bend, even try slander them? How two-faced is that?

These roleplayers, people like Snow and Crow and others, rather should be respected higher for their ACTING, for their ability to play not just a role, but even more difficult: a role of the other gender, so well that they are believable.

[Jessy Mumfuzz]

I was told in IM they thought I was a DUDE! Why...because the jack ass was rude, and I mean a complete arse wipe, (Ohh and it was when I logged in before my morning coffee...that didnt help) to me in my IM and didnt like it that I told him to F**k off.
I thought it was as funny as hell...and so what if you get called the other gender. I know I look down and see boobs... They are never going see them, and I will not cam or voice with some twit just to prove I am what I am.
The ever so nice gentleman also threatened me OOC that he would collar me for my mouth in IM..Yes in IM....never met the guy before in RP. I must admit....I did tell him, I just might be a guy and have a bigger dick then him.
Just to make myself clear, I am a female I have voiced with other woman and men. NO not to fur, or to satisfy them that I am a female, but because at the time it was easier. All this 'voice verified..cam verified' horse shit is an invasion of privacy. I think its for people who want more then RP.
What I do find strange is....the females who play assassins get ...Ohhhh its just RP from many. Those same ones who say that, when they hear a guy is RPin a panther think its disgusting.
In other words.....for an assassin (or warrior) played by a female, furs a FW or slave....FINE..Its RP. A panther played by a man gets furred by an (for example) assassin or warrior...its an out rage!
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander I say. Yeah I know thats not very Gorean but hey...Like I said to the twit in my IM...Im not a frigging Gorean. I live in the REALWORLD and play a game called Gor.

[alana]

What I do find strange is....the females who play assassins get ...Ohhhh its just RP from many. Those same ones who say that, when they hear a guy is RPin a panther think its disgusting.
In other words.....for an assassin (or warrior) played by a female, furs a FW or slave....FINE..Its RP. A panther played by a man gets furred by an (for example) assassin or warrior...its an out rage!

So,OOC I understand why a man would not like to fur another man playing a girl. However, I think it is interesting when I find that some men would not mind at all, knowing if I have furred an assassin or two that is a woman. *pervs*

Eh, no...for sure they would not mind. /me grins.
If they mind, you can be sure they're a woman behind the avatar.

LOL

Jess, I believe that answers any questions?
Gor is is not the only place where everything is not equal! Well...RP is RP

[Luci Breil]

Hmm. This entire thread has irked me to a degree. More than once the reactions I've gotten for playing Snow have ranged from outright disgust to an incredible support. However the people that my RP could even remotely impace in a personal way, I tend to tell right away. Most times I don't even say it, I just tell them to look carefully at Snow's profile before the RP proceeds. OOC, I'm a softie, and will give people an out simply out of respect for their feelings. I have to admit that in the past I did not do this. I merely found a way to work around it, even lied outright a couple of times until my conscience just couldn't take it anymore.

But I am actually happier in the role now that I don't feel like I have to constantly hide my tracks, or watch everything I say. I am, by nature, an honest person. And I simply reached the point where it risked people being hurt, for realsies, over RP. And for me, the person behind the screen will trump my RP any day, if it is someone that I give two shits about.

And I do... most of the time.

Snow

[Shjade]

I'll break it down then, real simple. In my experience, women do not play men better than men. They can play decent men, but they do not play better men, because men have the added bonus of having a deeper frame of reference, in that they are men. They can play men all they like, I just don't think they're generally very good at it, just as I don't think men are generally very good at playing women.

Problem in this statement: defining "better player" as "realistic player."

"True to life" does not mean "better." "More accurate" does not mean "better." In RP, the better man is the one who makes the role work.

To use your earlier Navy SEAL example, I'm sure that SEAL could point out all kinds of technical problems with my portrayal of a SEAL. I'm also confident I'd still play a better SEAL than he could because I can write and this hypothetical SEAL, while entirely capable of killing me seven different ways with his thumb, has issues with creative use of language.

Would his SEAL character be more accurate than mine? Almost assuredly. Would mine still be better than his in RP? Fuck yes.

Subjective interpretation of what it takes to be "better" than someone else. You could have the most accurate interpretation of a man ever and still have your metaphoric ass handed to you by a woman with a less point-for-point outline of a man but a greater sense of how to craft a character and write a story.

Being a man doesn't make you better at writing one, especially when men, like any other large group of people, vary SO MUCH from individual to individual. Knowing yourself in no way makes you an expert on every man any more than a woman is an expert on every woman. You're fooling yourself.

[E. Edward Gray]

I'll break it down then, real simple. In my experience, women do not play men better than men. They can play decent men, but they do not play better men, because men have the added bonus of having a deeper frame of reference, in that they are men. They can play men all they like, I just don't think they're generally very good at it, just as I don't think men are generally very good at playing women.

Problem in this statement: defining "better player" as "realistic player."

"True to life" does not mean "better." "More accurate" does not mean "better." In RP, the better man is the one who makes the role work.

To use your earlier Navy SEAL example, I'm sure that SEAL could point out all kinds of technical problems with my portrayal of a SEAL. I'm also confident I'd still play a better SEAL than he could because I can write and this hypothetical SEAL, while entirely capable of killing me seven different ways with his thumb, has issues with creative use of language.

Would his SEAL character be more accurate than mine? Almost assuredly. Would mine still be better than his in RP? Fuck yes.

Subjective interpretation of what it takes to be "better" than someone else. You could have the most accurate interpretation of a man ever and still have your metaphoric ass handed to you by a woman with a less point-for-point outline of a man but a greater sense of how to craft a character and write a story.

Being a man doesn't make you better at writing one, especially when men, like any other large group of people, vary SO MUCH from individual to individual. Knowing yourself in no way makes you an expert on every man any more than a woman is an expert on every woman. You're fooling yourself.

I can roleplay a gorean far fucking better then a gorean could play a gorean..

Case and point..

I can type out words on a keyboard

If the gorean touched a keyboard they would burst into blue flames and die..

Earth person 1
Gorean person 0

I win..

[Rip]

The debate of who plays a better male or whatever is pretty moot honestly,and not what this thread was about.The fact is,the better roleplayer will play the better role than the lesser roleplayer.Probably because they're a better writer,not because they have a better understanding of what it is to be that role.

The issue at hand was whether or not people have the the right to demand gender verification and defame people who aren't the gender of their character...I already knew the answer to the question,I was honestly just wondering how much of the community agrees with the likes of Cancifer and his followers.Since he was already outted as the person who is doing these things,yes he's the same one who is spreading rumors that I'm a female and that RL females shouldn't be playing assassins.Well,him and his followers...I personally wouldn't agree with them in any case.

I think I can safely assume that about 90% of the SL population is going to agree that women have the right to RP as men and vice versa.

However I also agree with some here,when it comes to relationships or sexual RP in general,whether it's OOC or IC,the other person has the right to know if their RP partner is male or female.Not everyone is comfortable with it,and in my opinion the decent thing to do is to either refrain from sexual RP and relationships,or be honest about your gender at least on a personal level to the people it may affect.

Again,thanks to all who posted.Very interesting points of view.

[Frevet]

The debate of who plays a better male or whatever is pretty moot honestly,and not what this thread was about.The fact is,the better roleplayer will play the better role than the lesser roleplayer.Probably because they're a better writer,not because they have a better understanding of what it is to be that role.

The issue at hand was whether or not people have the the right to demand gender verification and defame people who aren't the gender of their character...I already knew the answer to the question,I was honestly just wondering how much of the community agrees with the likes of Cancifer and his followers.Since he was already outted as the person who is doing these things,yes he's the same one who is spreading rumors that I'm a female and that RL females shouldn't be playing assassins.Well,him and his followers...I personally wouldn't agree with them in any case.

I think I can safely assume that about 90% of the SL population is going to agree that women have the right to RP as men and vice versa.

However I also agree with some here,when it comes to relationships or sexual RP in general,whether it's OOC or IC,the other person has the right to know if their RP partner is male or female.Not everyone is comfortable with it,and in my opinion the decent thing to do is to either refrain from sexual RP and relationships,or be honest about your gender at least on a personal level to the people it may affect.

Again,thanks to all who posted.Very interesting points of view.

Met Cancifer at the Gor Hub. Think he was one of the biggest douchebags I have seen in Gor thus far, was kinda laughing when I now saw this thread was about him among others.

I never have a problem with either way. I dont roleplay the sexxors, therefore I simply do not care at all wether the female avatar is a guy or a chick in RL, or wether the guy is played by a chick/dude in rl. As long as he/she/it plays his/her/its role well, I am perfectly fine.

[Rip]

Now now Arica,don't give him that much credit.This thread is really just about what is or isn't acceptable and I think mostly everyone agrees that people have no right demanding personal RL info in order to decide whether someone is worthy of playing this role or that.

As for Cancifer...well I really feel a sense of sadness in the fact that I once considered the man a great friend and a great killer.He's a man who has his own beliefs and he's set in his ways,he has his flaws just like everyone else.I'll be the first to tell you I'm full of flaws and it took me a long time to reach a point that I can honestly say,take me or leave me.You may say he's a douchebag,and he may be.But the next person might think he's the greatest guy in the world.Same goes for me,I know for a fact that I've earned my share of dislike and hatred in my second life.I bet there are quite a few on these forums who would say I'm quite the douchebag myself.I am what I am though and although I've made my mistakes in the past and I do regret many of them,I still look in the mirror without feeling an ounce of shame.In fact I'm proud of who I've become,and I only became that person by learning from the mistakes I've made.No,I'm not going to change for anyone...but that doesn't mean I can't accept that I've been wrong and change for myself.It's called evolution.

Back to the subject at hand,I really don't see where anyone has the right to say an assassin has to be male in RL...same as any other role,you can't expect a kurii RPer to be a kur in RL...when someone starts trying to police this it becomes ridiculous.I honestly think this issue has been resolved in my own mind,thanks to all who posted their views about the subject.

In the end,everyone is entitled to RP what,how,when,and where they choose to in SL...and on that same note,everyone else is entitled to have their own opinions and beliefs about what should or should not be allowed.We can't very well say that it's alright for one set of people to RP as they please while saying that the rest of the community has no right to voice their own opinions,and even enforce their beliefs amongst their own.I think it then becomes a double standard which might even be worse than trying to tell someone they can't play a certain role due to their RL gender and so on.

They have the right to judge and enforce their beliefs so long as they have the means to do so,just as we all have the right to play as we wish.Agreed?