The new Red Caste: Black

Is it common for the Black to Ally Red Caste? / Belivable?

Yes
7
9%
Yes
7
9%
No
31
41%
No
31
41%
 
Total votes: 76
Hawt Sommer

Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby Hawt Sommer » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:02 pm

Sempati wrote:Like Tarl and Drusus in Beasts, become temporary allies to accomplish a goal but still barb and bait each other. They also gained a mutual respect of each other but that rivalry still exists. After all it is a strong enemy that makes for a strong man.


What an excellent post and the reasoning seems quite justified up into the point you said: "Like Tarl".

He's a terrible example of what would be considered normal. In the beginning of the series he was a very skilled swordsman, but wore panties and was a bleeding heart.

It seems that each book where he was the main character he learned a lesson of some sort. My favorite was Marauder's in which the moral to the story was: Shoulda kept that bitch in the collar.

I agree there are exceptions to the standards in any case. But what you mentioned I feel is extremely important. There should be a very important reason in order for the Red Caste and the Anti-Red Caste to work together. Whether it be War or a mutual enemy attacking them in close proximity.

Superman and Bizzaro allied once for a joint effort. My question was- Is is common? Believable?

Could be a No and Yes answer. Believable depending on the circumstances and the roleplay behind it. But common place. Never.
NoneSpecified

Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby NoneSpecified » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:09 pm

Assassins don't get incorporated into anything. We have our own separate caste, no homestone, and serve only gold and steel. I would not consider a killer who takes up arms alongside warriors and defends a homestone as one who is playing the role as it was portrayed in the books. I would look at that man as a traitor and a code breaker and would put him on the stand to be judged by his caste brethren. Black and Red don't mix. The end.
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Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby HorizonNinetails » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:33 pm

Black Caste Assassin wrote:I have come across a few--and I do mean few--warriors that I respect. But mostly the red caste in SL Gor is a joke from what I have seen. It doesn't surprise me one bit to see the BC so heavily recruited for our combat skills.


Every man starting in a city goes red caste. Its much the same as saying every slave is a bad RPer.
Because the role is heavily populated, you get the worst of the new RPers dragging down the overall quality.

But this isnt anything new, I mean...Treve had a huge horde of BC while their red caste ranks withered.

From what I've seen, the red caste and the black are about the same for their combat skills. I can pick apart most black castes, and I was actually disappointed by the lack of combat skill I saw.

Too many are taking on the black, because there's so little for the reds to do, and so the black is coming to suffer from the same problem the red caste has: being too popular for its own good.

If cities started limiting who can be involved in raids and fights, then it could press the numbers back...but for now the slavers and the assassins of the world get dragged in because sims are so desperate for blades and bows.
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Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby Melchior Wardell » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:37 pm

HorizonNinetails wrote:Every man starting in a city goes red caste. Its much the same as saying every slave is a bad RPer.
Because the role is heavily populated, you get the worst of the new RPers dragging down the overall quality.

But this isnt anything new, I mean...Treve had a huge horde of BC while their red caste ranks withered.

From what I've seen, the red caste and the black are about the same for their combat skills. I can pick apart most black castes, and I was actually disappointed by the lack of combat skill I saw.

Too many are taking on the black, because there's so little for the reds to do, and so the black is coming to suffer from the same problem the red caste has: being too popular for its own good.

If cities started limiting who can be involved in raids and fights, then it could press the numbers back...but for now the slavers and the assassins of the world get dragged in because sims are so desperate for blades and bows.


I agree with this and in truth I regret to see that not many seem to desire the roll of the red caste. If Crow for whatever reason would leave the scene, I very much would like to give that caste a sincere try. I believe there are so many amazing things one can do being a scarlet.
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Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby Sempati » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:27 pm

At times, I have complained on the role of Warrior in SL, but you know who was responsible for my lack of anything to do, for the mindless drudgery of my day at times....I was, I am the only one that can change my RP. I do enjoy the RP I get, though at times I would do things that took me out of the loop and focused on OOC matters over IC opportunities....stupid of me but hey trick is to learn from the lesson.

There is a lot more to being a warrior than standing at the gate asking silly questions over and over, sticking your tab into the convenient slots, and running around in that matrix-esque slowmo hail of arrows. Not sure I have ever been the atypical warrior though, at least by SL standards, but I enjoy playing up the eccentric nature of the beast. Hell, anything an Assassin can do...a Warrior can do better! ;) Well, minus the dagger in the back thing, little glory in that, so you Killers can keep that.

Part of the issue I see is that too often each character, each caste is told that they MUST fit into the specific box, and if they do anything that is outside that box they are ungorean, disney, or doing it wrong. The other issue is the trend that was in BTB sims of wanting warriors but making it so that no raids can ever occur by sim rules or designs that have people walking away. Part of the draw of the warrior is that blunt and harsh element of combat, the mindless fun from time to time. Take that away and what you are left with is Old fogey ville Florida.

Now that I do not have to manage or try to recruit warriors to city, that I do not have that pressure and stress on my shoulder....I have more RP on the go, in the vein of a warrior, than I ever did before. Even in Cardy at least half my time in game was in IMs dealing with issues or setting up bits of RP for when I was not around, that was shitty thing with my TZ and schedule I was around during the lulls of the day but wanted the men to have something more than the same shit different day routine. How I hated missing out on all the action, but proud as hell when things got done.

At one point, with my failed Agoge, I was working with Snow on OOC basis with having Scarlet and Black schools on the same sim. The idea was that to promote and get both sides experience in dealing with each other in a quasi IC/OOC way so that we could build up that rivalry and competitive nature of men in a way that would promote long term RP, instead of the retarded you insult me gang-bang of death or venturing into OOC land. Having those mind games played between Warrior and Killer can drive a lot of stories in a sim, lot of intrigue and not necessarily be cut short by combat. That game of cat n mouse can be a blast....even better when you not sure which one you are, which often be the case the Black/Red.
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Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby Tamar Luminos » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:23 pm

Someone mentioned this quote. I like it, so thought I'd toss it out. I think, it's worth noting that the two men here are subtly goading and baiting each other, so it's good not to take their assessments of each other's castes to heart, such as to take from this that "all warriors are bloodthirsty louts and must be played as such", or "all assassins are efficient, mirthless killers and must be played as such". What makes this scene so amusing is the fact that these two characters are having to work together, and are verbally poking and playing off each other as they go, using their castes' stereotypes as fodder for the verbal jibes.

“But you are of the Assassins,” I said.
“We are tenacious fellows,” he smiled.
“I have heard that,” I said.
“Do you think that only Warriors are men?” he asked.
“No,” I said. “I have never been of that opinion.”
“Let us proceed,” he said.

“I thought you were too weak to be an Assassin,” I said. “I was once strong enough to defy the dictates of my caste,” he said. “I was once strong enough to spare my friend, though I feared that in doing this I would myself be killed.”
“Perhaps you are the strongest of the dark-caste,” I said. He shrugged.
“Let us see who can fight better,” I said.
“Our training is superior to yours,” he said.
“I doubt that,” I said. “But we do not get much training dropping poison into people’s drinks.”
“Assassins are not permitted poison,” he said proudly.
“I know,” I said.
“The Assassin,” he said, “is like a musician, a surgeon. The Warrior is like a butcher. He is a ravaging, bloodthirsty lout.”
“There is much to what you say,” I granted him. “But Assassins are such arid fellows. Warriors are more genial, more enthusiastic.”

“An Assassin goes in and does his job, and comes out quietly,” he said.
“Warriors storm buildings and burn towers.”
“It is true that I would rather clean up after an Assassin than a Warrior,” I said.
"You are not a bad fellow for a Warrior," he said.
"I have known worse Assassins than yourself," I said.

"Let us proceed," he said.
"Agreed," I said. We, together, I carrying the girl, made our way up another flight of stairs.
"Wait," I said.
"Yes" he said.
"The most obvious approaches to the chamber of Zarendargar," I said, "will probably be heavily guarded. Thus, let us circle about and climb upward. Perhaps we can eventually cut through from the level above."
"For a warrior," he said, "you are not totally without cunning."
"We have our flashes of inspiration," I informed him.
Beasts

There is also this one for consideration:

Little love is lost betwixt the castes of warriors and assassins. Each deems himself the superior of, and the natural foe, of the other. The sword of the warrior, commonly, is pledged to a Home Stone, that of the assassin to gold and the knife.
Beasts
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
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Hawt Sommer

Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby Hawt Sommer » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:41 pm

Tamar Luminos wrote:Someone mentioned this quote. I like it, so thought I'd toss it out. I think, it's worth noting that the two men here are subtly goading and baiting each other, so it's good not to take their assessments of each other's castes to heart...]


You left out the next part of it when they get to the top of the stairs and Tarl kisses him with tongue...


:sick:
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Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby Rayzor McAuley » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:17 pm

I doubt it would be "common," but this question did make me consider the size of Pa-kur's horde in Tarnsman and how many of that horde were warriors.


Hawt Sommer wrote:
He's a terrible example of what would be considered normal. In the beginning of the series he was a very skilled swordsman, but wore panties and was a bleeding heart.

It seems that each book where he was the main character he learned a lesson of some sort. My favorite was Marauder's in which the moral to the story was: Shoulda kept that bitch in the collar.


Okay, I have no idea where you got that moral out of that story, but I do consider Marauders of Gor to be the book where Tarl became a man. Funny how it took the Torvie's to whip him into shape where the Red Caste could not. :taunt:
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Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby Josef of Ar » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:07 pm

Conall DeCuir wrote:Absolutly unrealistic as long they are not all together attacked inside a tavern by a horde of kurii.


What if the assassins are retained as swords by the same entity that the warriors are fighting for?
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Re: The new Red Caste: Black

Postby Echo » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:00 am

I am going to squint my eyes and try and answer this logically.

Would the assassins and warriors fight beside each other?
Yes. If they faced a common threat.
Would they necessarily like it?
No.

Reasons for a black caste to act like a red caste. In a large city it is probable that not every warrior knows every other warrior of his homestone. To get close to your target you don the uniform and weapons of a warrior. Could in these circumstances an assassin fight alongside a warrior? Yes. But it was combat related to achieving his mission.

While it would be up to the individual assassin, I do not think you could hire an assassin to man your walls. He may be loyal to gold. But that is not his job. Hire mercenaries if you want additional troops for a war time engagement. But if you want the councilman overseeing the street of brands ended, you would see a black caste.
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