Does this Caste even exist?

[Kaitlin]

I've recently been companioned to a builder so naturally it got me thinking about this caste as a viable option for RP and I can't tell you how discouraging it is just looking around the SL Landscape.

Just a few things I've noticed...

Most Sims have no office for them of any kind...that is true in even the grandest of builds even though they are a higher caste than Physicians or Warriors

Advertisements for builders usually include the following "Must be able to build in SL"...not sure of any other caste that has such an OOC requirement yet its there...

Very few stores even bother making their normal offerings in yellow (I recently had to custom order 4 outfits from Tigereye as a gift)

Even here on Gorums there are a sum total of...drum roll...16 posts in this section.

Everywhere I look it screams that this caste doesn't really exist in SL Gor. Where are the Architects, Siege Engineers, Inventors? What causes this particular caste that seems to be a fun one to be such a vat of emptiness. Any thoughts?

[Courier 6]

Doing this from work so bear with me...

First, why I had decided to leave...

..most builders, save for a few, I ran into SL expected you to actually build. I, myself, even though a 'lot' of people *coughArhyiaJenneiSoulacough* offered to help teach me...never did get the grasp and my prims look like I was a drunken ost.

Very few people wanted to RP out the builder thing. Hell..two storylines in Ar revolving around builders was...meh.

Second: A lot of people wanna play Green..wanna play Warrior...wanna play Blue..very few wanna play the people who 'allow' for those others to even do their jobs.

's a coupla reasons JAxx stepped down.

[Erik]

..most builders, save for a few, I ran into SL expected you to actually build.

This is a sad truth.
No one expects me to actually enslave real people in real life.
No one complains to a Gorean physician about the VD they have and how best to treat it.
No one actually asks a scribe to notarize that RL paperwork they have sitting around regarding (whatever)
No one asks a warrior to come handle their RL noisy neighbors for them.
No one asks an Initiate to actually pray for their RL health...

Why are builders expected to actually build shit?

The only caste that has more dearth of players are the Initiates (that really IS a damned hard caste to play continuously).

Treve has a builder's office and as far as I know has always been there. When I had Laura we had a yellow office, but admittedly, only after a yellow joined us and really did build and so we told him to build himself an office. LOL

Hell, there are more farmer peasants in SL Gor than builders and it's a shame.
And we need more Inititates in SL-Gor so we can shun and ignore them more!

[Harlequin]

I think its sad that I knew that this was in the Builder caste boards before even clicking it.

Short answer: Not really.

Hi, I'm Cadence. I started Gor not very long ago, as a Builder. I usually RP combat characters in other sims... I have a war vet, a mage that loves the rush of killing, a cop in Midian. My other SL hobby is SL Combat, so when I reached Gor, I wanted something new, something different. Well, I script, but also I love clockworks. I love inventing, and I attended a class before ever starting gor, on Gorean Technology. I was inspired. That class, more than any other, discussing medical technology, computers, light bulbs. Wow, WOW! The Builders are freaking awesome!

What I found is a caste that doesn't know what it is, and which others don't know what to do with it. In most cases, we're just... sim builders.
Wheehaw.

I don't build, but I -did- study up on architecture, historical engineering methods, aquaducts... I can't build your sim's aquaducts, but ICly i can point out flaws, RP out major projects to install mechanical pumps to it, all that. But people don't want that.

Why RP out designing and installing a massive and complex gate system? We just bought a script that groupchecks. Done. Five minutes.
We want something new built, so we build it. Done. Maybe if the Builders are lucky they can get a bit of RP in.
Both of these would be nice RPs though, but lacking in... oomph. People, men especially, come to Gor to gain, to grow, to take and to attain things. Wealth ic, power, influence, women. Being a glorified janitor? While it was fun RPing out taking slaves about to test a new chemical mix to remove grafitti, its kinda sucky when that's ALL your RP consists of.

We're treated either as OOC builders, or janitors,i n most cases. At worst, we're treated as a caste of 'wacky inventors'.
I hate wacky inventors. The Builders are not treated as the Caste that built the City in which people walk. The caste that can destroy your business by closing a road. A Caste that acn declare your cylinder "unsafe" and have everyone evicted. There's no mention that they may try to tax all trade (Because hey, everyone's rich) causing trouble with the Merchants. In times of war, no one came to cadence about defenses. He had to go to others. War was for warriors. No one pays much mind to the Builders. What do they know?

You know, other than fortifications, supply lines, siege methods, etc.
>.>

The Builders have so much potential to be great, to have political games and scheming and risk and gain and loss and violence. They are the men and women who literally built Gor. The streets upon which we walk, the walls which defend us. The water we drink, the light we read by, the doors we open, the medical equipment we are healed by even. Our slaves are kept in line using their tools, you control your tarn with their inventions.
To relegate the greatest builders of your city to janitors, or at best "Hi I need you to build me this little basic thing" is almost an insult, and its -boring- to many. And what it leads to is a caste, in my experience, of people who seem at best bored, or at worst are "rich, retired from the caste, and just sort of tinkering".

I attempted to rework a caste into something complex, with life and meaning, and ended up with few responses, because there's no oomph to the Builders. There's no reason. And often times if someone who -can- ooc build comes along, you're made that much more meaningless. The warriors can meter fight, the physicians fix them up from it. Scribes very often do OOC paperwork and IC paprework that actually needs writing. The Builders... exist in this grey area.

I think the central reason I actually have more or less retired from the caste can be summed up by this. When I said to someone I wanted more gain and risk and conflict in my RP, the response was "Then you should maybe be a Warrior".

Until people realize RP can come out of even the smallest of events, and realize that ICly everything is more complex than just installing a prim... its gaining materials, trading for metals in other cities, perhaps even getting an architect with skill in what you want from another city... the Builders will basically be of two types. Sim builders, and bored people.

Also, I say all this as someone who -can- script, and has happily scripted siege engines, etc., but who actually tried to -avoid- making that the reason I'm a builder and instead tried to make it an entirely RP position.

[Curio]

I remember when I was first in SL in Gor. I met a someone in the Builder's caste. I asked him OOC if he actually did build in SL or if it was his character's caste. He acted as if I were stupid for even asking, wanting to know why anyone would be of that caste if they could not build.

I never asked anyone that question again after that response. Did not care enough to actually.
And I have been in some cities where they had offices for builders. Last Summer I think.
Not sure where I was at the time, it has been a while. I am sure that a city wishing active RPers would be happy to help find office space ...and I have seen some great builders RP items as well!

So sure...they exist...

Excuse me, I have to go make my list out for the Easter Bunny.

[Hawt Sommer]

Inspired me to write this thread:


Caste of Builders: What you should know
http://www.goreanforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4606

Is there any more quotes that support them building Siege Engines? Catapults... Siege Towers
I would assume it's them considering Architecture, Physics, Geometry are required.

[Melchior Wardell]

I have tried to set things up with one of my characters as in building a house, as in to deal with everything that comes with it. Meaning architecture, plans as in legality of what may be build, plans to what is needed in material. Still none of the builders were interested in it.

So I guess much is also about what are you willing to invest in it and spread the word to see who might have a plan or plot in regard to builders.

I was quite dissapointed that none picked it up since it would have been perhaps that roleplay which would involve also merchants, scribes etc.

[Rayzor McAuley]

Up until just after I became Administrator of Fort Sar, we had a builders office. It got turned into an apartment for rent because nobody ever used it. We had a full-time builder (in the OOC sense), but when he RPed, he was a farmer. I never understood why, but to each his own I guess. I have only ever made 2 builder's seals in SL...one for Sweetie Dagger before she was killed and became Mahnew, and the other was for the head architect of Olni. That's it. The caste is most definitely underrepresented.

[Harlequin]

We live in a world with easy access to technology and knowledge. People can, with research, build their own houses. I remodeled my own study in my last house, tore it down to the bare wall studs and refloored, walled, rewired it. If I need something, like say a set of speakers, I go to Radioshack. There on the shelf is a set of speakers same as every other set in their storage room. When a house is built you go to any number oc contractors who gets the materials trucked in. You can easily compare prices, and with a bit of research even doublecheck his numbers. Information on such things is easy to get, and technology is easy to attain.

In Gor, the Builders may share ideas between each other, but they specialize. They apprentice. They have a real serious need to keep their work and skills internal, because if others learn how to do it, where's the point of a caste? And to get something from a builder...
You don't just push open, say, Cadence's shop door and say "I need <x> and I need it by <y> and I will pay <z>".
He'll likely insult you and toss you out.

You're asking a Builder to design and craft something from often unique parts that also need to be hand crafted. THe materials need to be attained. Each gear carved, each wire spun exact to length. A Builder, in my eyes, isn't going to just keep bins of "parts". That goes against he idea of hand craftsmanship. No, you're not buying a speaker system like 10 others. You're going to have unique parts, individual touches, artistic flair. Your slave goad will be unique, and it will bear the makers' mark.

You are asking a builder to devote days or weeks to a craft, and to give you an example of his work. A full example of how he does his work, how it fits together. The secrets of their craft are there inside, to be pulled apart. I do not see this as being a minor thing. You shouldn't just throw money at a builder. YOu flatter them. You gift them, you develop a relationship of trust. YOu give them favors, you give tem access to rare materials.

You RP with them, in short.

We are not Gorean Radioshack. We are not the Gorean equivilent of Bob the Builder. We are craftsmen and women who, to the average Gorean, work a kind of near magic. That is what makes Builder RP great. Does it make Builders sound arrogant and haughty? What of it?

To a Builder, everything you touch and live in is their craft. The world of Gor is the Builders' work, in their eyes. A Warrior kills and takes, but what of the Builder, to whome the Warrior owes the very city he lives in? And then what of the siege engineer, who takes that craft, that magic, to the battlefield and is willing to defend his craft with his sword? Builders are a High Caste for a reason, not the corner store, and I think, though I am obviously very biased, they should be seen and treated with at least a level of deference for that.

[Hawt Sommer]

To a Builder, everything you touch and live in is their craft. The world of Gor is the Builders' work, in their eyes. A Warrior kills and takes, but what of the Builder, to whome the Warrior owes the very city he lives in? And then what of the siege engineer, who takes that craft, that magic, to the battlefield and is willing to defend his craft with his sword? Builders are a High Caste for a reason, not the corner store, and I think, though I am obviously very biased, they should be seen and treated with at least a level of deference for that.

And... The most dangerous caste for the Technician/Inventor subclass.

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