Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Have an idea for a roleplay for multiple homes? Something you would like to see done? Looking for alliances, people to trade with, people to start wars with? Post your needs here!
User avatar
HorizonNinetails
Posts: 394
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:19 am
SL Name: Horizon Ninetails
Caste: Pirate
Role: Scoundrel
Home Stone: Deck beneath my feet

Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby HorizonNinetails » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:37 am

I recently kicked around a few sims as of late and started having a critical eye to builds. One thing is for sure - the build quality seems to be up as of late in general. More sims are using better textures and, in general, cities/villages look better. The problem I have is that build layout seems to have gotten much worse.

I think Cardonicus (the old one) is probably the closest I've seen to the perfect layout for a city; the center had an RP focal point with plenty of businesses around to keep it interesting and you could see it when you landed from the docks. Sin's Tarnwald was also quite good - it was a set of ramparts and most things were pretty easy to find. Shops around market squares! New sims seem to want to make you walk across the sim twice before you ever find another living soul, and while I would normally blame this on the threat of raids - no one raids anymore!

I also feel like cities are using the entire expanse of the sim with the idea of maximizing RP space yet end up making the sim feel empty. I think Eve did a fantastic job with the recent version of Ar, and while having Ar as an entire sim makes sense it feels like so many more places are trying to do it and failing. There is simply too much space to hide/avoid people and not enough established RP areas for people to congregate.

So my question is - what advice would you give to sim builders for layout? What are the biggest sins committed by current sim builders?

I think my biggest peeve is the endlessness of current sims - the need for tunnels/underground housing/housing towers/full sim builds rather than concentrating on quality areas to just meet and roleplay.
User avatar
The Ost
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:46 pm
SL Name: Ost Clawtooth
Home Stone: Turia
Owner: unlucky bastard
Location: Metroplex

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby The Ost » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:52 am

I agree. Many of them now feel like vast concrete jungles. I have difficulty even finding a /central/ place to put myself that might show I am wanting a random scene with anyone else also looking and everywhere I go feels like I found an out of the way spot to afk, or I stopped in the middle of the road to handle a rl emergency lol.
The Ost abides.
User avatar
Ceri the Urt
Urtastic!
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:55 am
SL Name: Ceri Kesten
Role: Being totally stinky.

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby Ceri the Urt » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:14 pm

Sim builds drive me crazy 90% of the time. Sometimes they make absolutely no sense. It is almost like every single builder is thinking "MUST MAKE BIG! BIG IS BEST!" but that is simply not true. Some of the best sims I have rped on were small villages. I can't remember most of the names...I know one was Parsit's Landing, but the rest are a blur...but anyway....My BIGGEST issue with sims is that they are pretty much all high caste, beautiful, flaweless builds.

They have pure clean walls, flawless streets, fountains and flowers, and just stunning...and boring...sterile...
The new At (the one that just closed) is the perfect example. It is a lovely sim, but is is a big giant gray and red many layered box. It was cold...intimidating...which Ar is supposed to be, but when you trying to promote rp it simply does not work. The whole giant road walk up to it was annoying...walking for hours and running into only one person on an odd street surrounded by more big white walls was bleh....

Their are 3 sims that I have rped in that I absolutely loved the builds of. One was a place I taught a class in gor to free women. I can't remember the name of the sim, but when you stepped into it you had to go through a larger low caste area first...with butchers, and bakers, peasants, slums, it was UGLY, dirty, real, and SO beautiful because of that...it had character, added things for people to do, it was brilliant....then it went up toward a higher caste area...and continued up until you reached the spires of the high caste. Unfortunately, for whatever reason it ended up closing.

The second was not on gor, it was called 1001 Nights and was an Arabian nights type of rp, and ugh it was SO much fun. It had desert outskirts you could walk around in, then the city wall which was circular, the outter ring was lower caste, with hidden nooks and craneys, then it again went to the high caste and royal areas toward the center. Main I miss that place. It was brilliant.

The last one was actually gorean, I took pictures there for my store. It was again a desert/Arabian type feel to it and whoever build it did an amazing job. It was sort of carved into a stone wall, and had sandstorms that swept parts of it. Just fantastic...

People miss the beauty of the bad. The beauty in slums, and lower caste areas that promote a sense of danger, and to many sims forget or stifle the danger, they forget that you need intrique to add interest, you need bad guys to give people storylines to play. You can't just focus on beauty, beauty is nice...but I would rather see a waste baskets then butterfly gardens...I would rather see dark alleys that lead to dingy casinos then bright pathways that lead to tea rooms. Everyone knows how to build for the Magistrates, and Ubars, no one knows how to build to tempt people, to give them something to do other then head to the cafe and have a snack.

Jasmine sort of has the hang of things...they have shops that real people run, and the city is well thought out in it's placement of things to spread the rp, they have a peasant area and a darker seedier side...but it is still a bit to boxy for me, and hard to find the entrance of.

Anyway, My ideal sim would be some place that has a Large peasant area..not just fields and bosk, but shops and what not in a ring, or square that gets closer to high caste the more toward the center of the city you get....
Don't raise your voice, Improve your Argument.
Tantus
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:55 am
SL Name: Inactive
Caste: Scribe

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby Tantus » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Too many builds are flat and linear with parallel roads and residential blocks, an efficient but aesthetically bland use of space. I'd rather see curved roads, buildings along slopes, something which feels like a community growing up around natural features.

The original Tyr's Fist used earthy shades and really conveyed that feel of a community settling over rugged terrain with scenic views in all directions. Parsits was fun too, practically a forest sim with less than a 1/4 given to the village. JD did an amazing job with Cardonicus, with a forest at the Northern side and strip of woodlands along the west. Thrilling raids were had there with simultaneous combat on land and in the skies above(proper Havoc Rau and Toran Cult tarns). Pure, chaotic, fun.

But the builds were smaller then and housing was very, very limited. Some sims had none at all. I even recall the privilege of IC Housing for a First Sword (etc...) was offered as an incentive for poaching players. These small, scenic builds were a possibility before housing became a consideration.


In contemporary roleplay, the players have influenced builds more so than the architects.
I like my roleplay areas to be visually stimulating, something I can weave into the scene - however - construct a nice, atmospheric sim today and you probably won't see any traffic. People aren't looking for immersion. People... are looking for people. There is no other consideration but whether a city has 20+ avatars on sim.

If your city isn't flying above 10 avatars, you can say bye-bye to it and save your money.

Whoever is planning a build today wants a healthy population of 40-60 avatars online(Someone can jump in and say they're happy with 10 avatars, and that's great, but I doubt that person is roleplaying anywhere at all. So moving on...) To sustain a population of that size, you need player housing of around 80 apartments. Imagine working that into your build, now your hopes for many scenic zones are dwindling street by street.

50% of your build is going into housing, and then people want impressive Caste buildings, multiple marketplaces, cafes, taverns, dens, bath houses and it's becoming a puzzle of how you arrange it all together.


I'm of the opinion that IC Housing should be removed altogether, players managed without before, they can do so again. Make better use of inns or rez skyboxes for the sake of a scene. But the IC experience in Gor, and outside, has gravitated towards family roleplay and epic group scenes, so housing is here to stay!
User avatar
Qingwen
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:32 am
SL Name: Akane Nacht

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby Qingwen » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:38 am

Perhaps it's nostalgia talking, but my all time favourite rp sim design is still Kingdom of Sand. It had many natural congregating areas, faction bases, secret places, and was a blast for combat. It closed years back, sadly, but there is still a replica of the main city in the skybox of Majilis al Jinn, Sands of Time.
"Who are you people?!" - Patrick Star
User avatar
Sasi
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:16 am
SL Name: Sasi

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby Sasi » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:53 pm

I love giant cities where you can get lost with lot of streets, shops, low and high caste districts, with some places where people can gather if they want but others where they can have more privately RP. I don't like crowd RP, although, events are necessary (when they don't mix IC and OOC). And I love housing that is actually made to be really functional, with private quarters for the house members, common areas and quarters for slaves as well (these last ones can be built in underground). I don't like dovey family RP but every time one of my characters had been part of a family, it was constantly political plots. It's for this reason that houses must exist. They accomodate factions as well. People should stop thinking they are private areas, almost OOCly. These houses should be opened to IC petitioners, asking protection and favors from high ranked personalities in the city. Most of my best RP were into houses, with people not from my house. It's where I plotted my best plots.

People keep saying they want places where they can gather and have large scenes. But most people keep telling they don't like scenes with too many people. They say usually that they can't hold scenes made of a group of 3 or 4 people but not more...

The slave houses are usually kind of lame, too. Most of the place they hold is used for offices, private rooms for the slaver and his family. Almost no class and training rooms the way they are described in the books, no baths, a few cages randomely tossed in a room for the kennels, no sale room. There is nothing which really encourages the slave players to build stories and plots in the house between their chars and with the staff chars as well (in the books, the slaves which are property of a slave house don't go to work in a tavern, inn etc....). Plus, these places tend to be more oriented to teach Gor noobs, than to create plotlines, storylines (seriously, I would love a slave house that would not accept slave players not familiar with Gor, the training should be for the character, not the typist).
As for state slaves, I would like no slaver at all (replaced by a NPC). Slave players with no partner to play their owner should be allowed to pick up a state slave tunic, then, pretend they are state slaves and care for their own RP in using some chores in the public areas as a background. Maybe just state kennels built somewhere, in an underground for they gather when they need. Most sims don't have neither a laundry place where private slaves could meet and spread gossips, rumors etc.

Also, there is a part of the Gorean cities which is always ignored and never built: The public kitchens... It could be a nice place where people could gather. Only wealthy houses should have a kitchen. People who are not wealthy, whatever their caste, should order their meal at the public kitchen. That would be a place where they could gather, spread gossips, have interactions with slave serving there, cooks, etc. Same for the baths. They are places with a great potential but almost always ignored.

My biggest issue with the Gorean buildings...? They look like Earth old cities, often the medieval type... You have sometimes 2 or 3 cylinders, but it's all. Where are the high bridges with little shops on them? The colors ? I would love a more daring build and an OOC admin team encouraging and helping people to effectively use places which are usually seldom used. I want a sim where I would set a foot and exclaims "Wow, now, I'm really on the planet Gor!"
User avatar
HorizonNinetails
Posts: 394
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:19 am
SL Name: Horizon Ninetails
Caste: Pirate
Role: Scoundrel
Home Stone: Deck beneath my feet

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby HorizonNinetails » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:06 pm

The idea with the wide open spaces isn't to have larger groups RPing...its about providing a place for people to meet at all.

Every sim needs a spot where you can say "If I go to X...and it isn't 5am on a monday....I will find SOMEBODY to RP with". Usually its an open spot with a market around it - that isn't a mile away from the entrance to the sim.

Also....who the fuck puts taverns at the back end of the city?
User avatar
Sasi
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:16 am
SL Name: Sasi

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby Sasi » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:18 pm

HorizonNinetails wrote:The idea with the wide open spaces isn't to have larger groups RPing...its about providing a place for people to meet at all.

Every sim needs a spot where you can say "If I go to X...and it isn't 5am on a monday....I will find SOMEBODY to RP with". Usually its an open spot with a market around it - that isn't a mile away from the entrance to the sim.

Also....who the fuck puts taverns at the back end of the city?


Ah, I agree with that. Some spots are nice. Just, not too big, because you have people who camp there and never meet (already saw that a hundred of times :))
User avatar
FeorieFrimon
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:51 pm
SL Name: Feorie Frimon
Contact:

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby FeorieFrimon » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:25 am

For me, it all looks the same these days.

I've been in modern RP for about a year and coming back to Gor, it all sort of looks the same.

I agree...I think RP homes on the sim are an RP killer. People end up hiding in their houses for hours which ultimately kills RP. Nothing is more annoying than wandering around a sim with 30 people in it and finding them afk or in their house. Sure, I could try and come up with a reason to knock on your door, but the reasons are slim that carry on for a scene for more than just few posts.

I want to see something different. Give me a black market. A slave market. I like the idea of public kitchens. I dunno...the build should be -furthering- the RP. Every prim is suppose to have a point, and the point should be giving fuel to people that want to rp on a sim.

The new Turia is kinda of pretty. I liked the Minus build that was recent but was shut down. Everything 'in the north' looks the same to me these days.
User avatar
Sasi
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:16 am
SL Name: Sasi

Re: Build Mistakes We Keep Making

Postby Sasi » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:11 pm

I disagree with the claim that RP homes on a sim are RP killers. I don't build my IC schemes in the streets. I will not plot in an open space. I meet people in the streets, yes, but then, next meetings will likely happen within the walls of my IC house. Many big plots start in IC houses. Not to mention some more personal (and not less intensive) scenes which requires a home.
The IC home is also a reflection of the social status of a character.

The problem is more about these people who forget that a house in a sim is a role play place, not the private OOC home of a RPer. These homes can be invaded, you can think of a pretext to come knock at the door (even if just to pretend your char got the wrong address).

You can also just IM the person who is standing alone in a house, then, figure both a plausible scenario for your characters to meet.

Return to “Roleplay Ideas”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests