Think we are inane?

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Glaucon
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Think we are inane?

Postby Glaucon » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:12 pm

Think we are inane, insane and all that, with our endless discussions about minor details, our historical examples and our endless arguing over gender stuff in RP?

Check out this OP from a forum about Skyrim:

Ok so it's been heatedly debated, argued, angrily shouted and flamed over breast cups on female plate armor breast plates.
It's now so much that the mod comments pages get flooded and some locked over this.
In an attempt to bring this debate to an end I contacted Professor Clifford J. Rogers. he's a professor of history at the United States Military Academy at West Point. He has also been a Leverhulme Visiting Professor at Swansea University, an Olin Fellow in Military and Strategic History at Yale, and a Fulbright Fellow at the Institute of Historical Research in London. If anyone HE would be the one to end this debate once and for all.

I Contacted prof. Rogers over facebook and asked him about this and here is my question and his answer.

"Did the few women in medieval history that actually wore armor have breast cups on the breast plate or wear male armor with the breast tied down? Also wouldn't breast cups on the armor be counter-effective vs blows, arrows etc in the way that the impact wouldn't be deflected away but actually caught and helped find the center chest and thus assist the enemy in killing the wearer of said armor?

lastly, can I quote your answer on skyrimnexus.com?

Sincerely
Per Westman"


and his answer:

"Per, The number of women who wore plate armor in the Middle Ages is extremely, extremely small. I can think of only 2 probable examples, Joan of Arc and Big Margot (and the latter may not have been wearing plate). More common-- mainly because it was in use much longer-- would be mail armor. However, I think fantasy-style breast cups would be very unlikely; as you say, they would not serve well for deflection, which is very important. Also, the fifteenth-century illumniations of Joan show her in essentially male armor, not with breast cups. There's also a 15th c illumination of Minerva in plate armor in British Library MS Harley 4431 fo. 102v, which you could view via the British Library ImagesOline site. And see Bibliotheque nationale de France, MS FR226 fo. 58 for another woman in basically a male breastplate.

Yes, you may quote me.

Best,
Cliff"



So there you have it people. Though it might look sexier that way, the only person that wore armored breast cups was probably Red Sonja


:D
Carter
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby Carter » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:45 pm

After reading that and comparing it to some of the debates and issues about GOR.. I have to begin to seriously reconsider my perspective on life and the general priorities I have given to contribute and be a part of a gorean role play environment .... it really is becoming a crock of shit isnt it ?
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Arella
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby Arella » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:51 pm

Heated debates over breast cups, kissing the rim and slaves that say Tal must make the professionals double over in laughter.

Or run in fear.

:fleeflee:
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kalah
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby kalah » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:56 pm

Then there is the debate about being Dressed to Kill http://rosalarian.tumblr.com/post/2325861377/dressed-to-kill
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Glaucon
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby Glaucon » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:09 am

kalah wrote:Then there is the debate about being Dressed to Kill http://rosalarian.tumblr.com/post/2325861377/dressed-to-kill


Aw, she really means it. That's so cute. :)
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Danika Stenvaag
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby Danika Stenvaag » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:47 am

fools argue, wise people discuss. i have no experience with skyrim, star trek or any of the other games out there, i don't play them, but the pettiness and hair splitting and arguing i have seen in these forums has been astounding. i suppose it wouldn't surprise me it happens elsewhere like in skyrim.

by the way, breast cups would hurt. trust me. i tried sqeezing my own breasts into a theatre costume with breast cups and my boyfriend banged them with a sword prop for shits and grins and shit did it hurt. whatever women rode into battle ages ago, joan of arc, whoever, likely wore straight breast plates of armor like men if they wore armor.
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Charlotte
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby Charlotte » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:01 am

I think there's something to keep in mind.

People aren't discussing these small bits of information as if their lives depended on it. They're not stopping their daily work to argue over it.
They're doing it in their spare time, as their chosen form of entertainment.

So WHAT?
If it satisfies someone to spend an hour trivialising over whether or not breast-plates had special spots for breasts, then...well I rather think that more conductive than playing grand theft auto 195 for the 7th time!



And really, isn't it a waste of time to spend ones time bitching about how much of a waste of time others are wasting!?
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Violetta Daviau
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby Violetta Daviau » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:28 am

Just good we play a fantasy game. In those it is pretty common that the protection gets more for women the less an armor covers them.

Realism can have its extend, that can be fun, but one should keep in mind that one is playing a game, a fantasy game, and a game in which the world we are trying to experience is not any similar to the world described - in matters of size, techniques and population.

As for Skyrim... those realism bonkers should consider that too. If one fights dragons in a fictional world, one often cares more to look heroic than realistic, and in terms of gear, in games, most people only looks for 1337 StAtZ anyways.
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Victor.
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby Victor. » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:29 am

I'd refer to some good old College Humour to back the Skyrim OP's claim of unrealistic female armour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGh0EMmMC8

Generally I'd like to promote the idea and development of 'Tassels of Intimidation' with matching whips of course, no less. :ugeek:
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Elle Couerblanc
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Re: Think we are inane?

Postby Elle Couerblanc » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:14 pm

Carter wrote:After reading that and comparing it to some of the debates and issues about GOR.. I have to begin to seriously reconsider my perspective on life and the general priorities I have given to contribute and be a part of a gorean role play environment .... it really is becoming a crock of shit isnt it ?


Only on the forums LOL. :hiding: :o :lol:
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