Page 8 of 9

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:06 am
by TreatRothschild
Discrediting other people's sources is fine, that's kind of the core of debate. It's how you do it that's important. At the moment, I know that I'm a *fine* one to talk about civility.

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:28 am
by Elle Couerblanc
Leah wrote:Normally you wouldn't go to a family member in a situation like this. You'd want someone who was neutral - i.e. not affiliated with either side - to make that call. Even if he's a trained therapist, he's still too connected to the situation to make an unbiased judgement.


Exactly this! Knowing and being aware of my own bias about the treatment of sex offenders for example (that it simply does not work) - I would never go into that line of work if I ever returned to the field. I would also probably not be in a work environment Same with my family, how could I as a professional (if I was still working in the field) testify to the mental health and well being of say my nephew's wife (they are going through a divorce) knowing my own experiences and bias towards her.

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:35 am
by Leah
Elle Couerblanc wrote:
Leah wrote:Normally you wouldn't go to a family member in a situation like this. You'd want someone who was neutral - i.e. not affiliated with either side - to make that call. Even if he's a trained therapist, he's still too connected to the situation to make an unbiased judgement.


Exactly this! Knowing and being aware of my own bias about the treatment of sex offenders for example (that it simply does not work) - I would never go into that line of work if I ever returned to the field. I would also probably not be in a work environment Same with my family, how could I as a professional (if I was still working in the field) testify to the mental health and well being of say my nephew's wife (they are going through a divorce) knowing my own experiences and bias towards her.


Pretty much. Even if Ronan was backing Dylan, it would be unprofessional of him to say, "I back her as a licensed therapist." Because he's too close to the situation to make a call like that.

Just as a clarification: I am not saying that he's not entitled to his own opinion. I'm saying that giving his opinion more weight because he's a licensed therapist is a bad idea, since a) he's taking a side and b) he's going to be biased.

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:23 pm
by Hawt Sommer
Could someone point out my article to Kait, Think she has me foe'd/ muted. Little tid-bit she should see.

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:54 pm
by Glaucon
@ Kaitlin: I will be gentle with him.

Hawt Sommer wrote:http://www.missingkids.com/KeyFacts

My source "National Center for missing and exploited children"

Is that a fear-mongering agency? If so, that would be the first time I heard that.


Well, that page with the 'key facts' clearly is. 800.000 missing children? Where? In the whole world? The USA? What time period? Since the dawn of time, or last year? (Clearly not since last year). Does this include child soldiers gone missing in African civil wars?

They probably got the number from somewhere, but this is not how you present a 'fact'. It is a PR blurb. Please donate.

Funny how you'd argue that those climate experts are all self-serving liars trying to create a panic about climate change so they can get money and jobs, while you take this bit of PR at face value. Did you even look at the actual number of amber alerts I linked?

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:15 pm
by Oor
Hawt, while studies undertaken by NGOs about their pet cause can be reliable, they should always be checked against secondary sources. The 'worse' the problem appears the more funding the NGO gets, so they're renowned for massaging their figures and presentation of such.

I'd wager that "800,000 abducted children" in the US is about as accurate as the "100,000-300,000 child sex trafficking victims" spouted by trafficking fetishists. That is to say: not at all.

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:51 pm
by Leah
Kaitlin wrote: As far as any "bias", I never suggested Moses was making a "medical" assessment of the situation since he is quite clear that he is speaking as another member of the family and his observations of what occurred. That doesn't discount his background. If professionals are an authoritative source then at this point Dylan is batting a fat 0.


Glaucon was saying that Moses' word carried more weight because he's a licensed therapist. But, he's biased - and he would be biased even if he took her side. He's got familial ties to the situation, so his profession absolutely shouldn't be considered when weighing the value of his opinion.

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:03 pm
by Glaucon
Leah wrote:Glaucon was saying that Moses' word carried more weight because he's a licensed therapist.


Nope. I wasn't. Didn't even mention it. And sure, he is probably biased. Everyone involved is going to be biased.

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:23 pm
by Glaucon
Oh, and at Hawt:

Reports of missing persons have increased sixfold in the past 25 years, from roughly 150,000 in 1980 to about 900,000 this year. The increase was driven in part by the country's growing population. But the numbers also indicate that law enforcement treats the cases more seriously now, including those of marginalized citizens.

An astounding 2,300 Americans are reported missing every day, including both adults and children.

But only a tiny fraction of those are stereotypical abductions or kidnappings by a stranger.

For example, the federal government counted 840,279 missing persons cases in 2001. All but about 50,000 were juveniles, classified as anyone younger than 18.

The National Center for Missing Adults, based in Phoenix, consistently tracks about 48,000 "active cases," says president Kym Pasqualini, although that number has been bumped up by nearly 11,000 reports of persons missing after this year's hurricanes.

In a phone interview, Pasqualini said a breakdown of the 48,000 cases reveals the democratic nature of America's missing persons.

Slightly more than half—about 25,500—of the missing are men. About four out of 10 missing adults are white, three of 10 black and two of 10 Latino.

Among missing adults, about one-sixth have psychiatric problems. Young men, people with drug or alcohol addictions and elderly citizens suffering from dementia make up other significant subgroups of missing adults.

About half of the roughly 800,000 missing juvenile cases in 2001 involved runaways, and another 200,000 were classified as family abductions related to domestic or custody disputes.

Only about 100 missing-child reports each year fit the profile of a stereotypical abduction by a stranger or vague acquaintance.


http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/americas_missing/2.html

And, these roughly 100 cases are the missing child reports, of which only a portion turn out to be real child abductions, or possible child abductions (in case it remains unknown because the child stays missing and the investigation following the disappearance doesn't shed light on the matter either.). Amber alerts do not go out for each of these missing child reports, but, apparently, are only used in cases where an abduction by an unknown person/stranger seems quite likely and where the police believes an alert will really help. It seems they don't want to 'over-use' the tool by sending these alerts out too regularly, which might potentially 'blunt' the instrument, I'd guess.

Re: POLL: Woody Allen is.....

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:05 pm
by Leah
Glaucon wrote:
Leah wrote:Glaucon was saying that Moses' word carried more weight because he's a licensed therapist.


Nope. I wasn't. Didn't even mention it. And sure, he is probably biased. Everyone involved is going to be biased.


Ah, you're right. I got you mixed up with Kaitlin. Apologies!