Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

User avatar
Anarch Allegiere
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:01 am
SL Name: Anarch Allegiere

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:10 am

I got a few other thoughts to add to this subject.

It's not only in the US that events like these are transpiring, in European countries and other modernized western countries these things are happening more and more often too.

I think it's just a given that as population numbers keep increasing this will keep on happening more often. The population of Earth is going up at an exponential rate and so obviously are the amount of crimes and murders that happen every day or even every second.

Popular theory in sociology is that people will start respecting life less the higher the population density becomes, not just for government but also civilians. Gun-control would be nothing but a band-aid in the end that lessens the severity of attacks like these, but will not be able to fight the rising number of events like these.
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Glaucon » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:58 am

Oor wrote:Though, now that you mention it, it is mildly amusing that the same people that want to be able to kill people if they so wish in the name of 'liberty' are the people that were railing against the possibility of decriminalising drug use.


And those are the same people that feel that their liberty is threatened if the federal government does anything approaching compelling them to get medical insurance. And the same people that feel that the federal government should prevent people of the same sex from getting married. And the same people that gets really angry when some silly teacher has her students sing praise songs to Obama. And the same people that think it is okay for parents to send their children to 'home schools' where they get taught that it was Satan that hid dynosaur bones/fossils in the earth shortly after creation so that ten thousand years later, unfaithful scientists would start believing in the theory of evolution.

In the end, it has nothing to do with liberty. And everything to do with a nation that is deeply divided along party-ideological lines.
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Glaucon » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:10 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:It's not only in the US that events like these are transpiring, in European countries and other modernized western countries these things are happening more and more often too.


True. Which is why I think that 'gun control' isn't the end-all sollution. (I would expect more from not naming/giving any attention to the killers in the media, but it seems that that is not likely to happen, even outside of the US). And the reason it is happening more often? Copying behaviour.

I think it's just a given that as population numbers keep increasing this will keep on happening more often. The population of Earth is going up at an exponential rate and so obviously are the amount of crimes and murders that happen every day or even every second.


A fair point, but the increase is way to high to be explained that way. And in spite of population increase, in many places, general crime rates have falled over the last decade(s) in quite a few western countries (including the US, I believe).

Popular theory in sociology is that people will start respecting life less the higher the population density becomes, not just for government but also civilians. Gun-control would be nothing but a band-aid in the end that lessens the severity of attacks like these, but will not be able to fight the rising number of events like these.


Whose theory was that? Evidence doesn't support that theory. In densely populated countries like yours, or Japan, the 'value of life' in people's minds has only increased over the last 50 years or so. The 'worth' of life there is much higher than in, say... Russia. I'd say that population density doesn't have all that much to do with it. Wealth does.
Carter
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:52 pm
SL Name: ***

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Carter » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:32 am

Anarch Allegiere wrote:I got a few other thoughts to add to this subject.

It's not only in the US that events like these are transpiring, in European countries and other modernized western countries these things are happening more and more often too.



No, you cant draw comparisons between the "ad hoc" events in the last 10 years in European countries and the events in the US.. Finland was a unique situation comparable to the bombing of the Federal building in Oklahoma.

Schools and public areas are not attacked on an increasingly regular basis, and the reaction to the 1997 shooting at a school in Scotland, resulted in the final banning of hand guns because of public pressure.


Anarch Allegiere wrote:I think it's just a given that as population numbers keep increasing this will keep on happening more often. The population of Earth is going up at an exponential rate and so obviously are the amount of crimes and murders that happen every day or even every second.

Popular theory in sociology is that people will start respecting life less the higher the population density becomes, not just for government but also civilians. Gun-control would be nothing but a band-aid in the end that lessens the severity of attacks like these, but will not be able to fight the rising number of events like these.


No disagree.. statistically you may think that if there are more people, there are more gun related crimes and deaths.. India, Japan, Singapore, Korea, .. as the populations have increased, there is no specific correlation in this.. AND.. Japan, India, Korea.. (incredible density in their cities) they have very very strict gun laws and subsequently.. Mumbai or Tokyo (populations of tens of millions) are very safe to walk around.. unlike comparative cities of Washington DC, Los Angeles

The banning of hand guns in the UK in 1997 resulted in a 40% decrease in gun related crime.. the population of the UK has increased by 7- 8 million in that time to over 62million in an geographical area, a third of the size of the State of Texas, and has fewer gun incidents than Dade County in Florida...

So I would disagree on the respect for life and the correlation in density and size of population.

Common sense tells you .. in a population which is defined as having 25% of its population suffering from some form of mental illness and then add 83 guns per 100 people... well.. you do the Maths and probability of that lethal concoction.

Monkey with a machine gun comes to mind... they can pull triggers you know !!!!
Mat
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:47 am
SL Name: Mat
Caste: Warrior
Role: Defender of Freedom

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Mat » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:55 pm

If teachers had been allowed to be armed in that school and properly trained with those weapons than the loss of life would have been likely less. At the very least there should have been armed guards at that school and at every facility that prohibits the lawful carry of weapons. If one removes the ability of an individual to protect themselves with a gun than that group assumes responsibility for actively protecting that facility and any loss of life is directly their responsibility if they do not adequately provide security.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
Resolver Bouchard
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:26 am

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Resolver Bouchard » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:18 pm

Mat wrote:If teachers had been allowed to be armed in that school and properly trained with those weapons than the loss of life would have been likely less. At the very least there should have been armed guards at that school and at every facility that prohibits the lawful carry of weapons. If one removes the ability of an individual to protect themselves with a gun than that group assumes responsibility for actively protecting that facility and any loss of life is directly their responsibility if they do not adequately provide security.


And if a student or visitor takes a gun off a teacher or armed guard? Or if one of these teachers or armed guards decides he/she has had enough of all the pesky kids?

And who is going to pay for all these guards?
Mat
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:47 am
SL Name: Mat
Caste: Warrior
Role: Defender of Freedom

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Mat » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:24 pm

Resolver Bouchard wrote:And if a student or visitor takes a gun off a teacher or armed guard? Or if one of these teachers or armed guards decides he/she has had enough of all the pesky kids?

And who is going to pay for all these guards?

If they get their weapon taken from them than I would say that they are not properly trained. If they are turning the weapons on others than they are not properly screened. As to who will pay for it that would be the community that the facility is located one way or another be that increased taxes or taxes being diverted from one function to another.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Kaitlin » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:26 pm

Mat wrote:If teachers had been allowed to be armed in that school and properly trained with those weapons than the loss of life would have been likely less. At the very least there should have been armed guards at that school and at every facility that prohibits the lawful carry of weapons. If one removes the ability of an individual to protect themselves with a gun than that group assumes responsibility for actively protecting that facility and any loss of life is directly their responsibility if they do not adequately provide security.


I have a 5 year old. The last thing I want in her school is teachers who are packing heat under the same flawed and unconstrained gun policy in this country. Do you believe because they are teachers they can't be nutty as hell? That they can't have a bad day and decide to go with the impulse to silence chattering children? That they are trained properly to use the weapon? What a totally insane proposal.
:pissed:
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
Mat
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:47 am
SL Name: Mat
Caste: Warrior
Role: Defender of Freedom

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Mat » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:32 pm

Simple fact is that guns are not going away in the US. While there may even be a majority who wish to see them reduced that majority is not large enough to change the constitution.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Kaitlin » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:33 pm

Mat wrote:Simple fact is that guns are not going away in the US. While there may even be a majority who wish to see them reduced that majority is not large enough to change the constitution.


Luckily time is the cure for idiocy in this country.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait

Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest