Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Jenny1919
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Jenny1919 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:15 pm

Resolver Bouchard wrote:
Jenny1919 wrote:
Oor wrote:Has happened in a mature democracy precisely zero times.

True because no democracy has lasted more than 200 years


I've just been speaking to a friend who went to the wake of one of the young boys killed in the attack, he used to love coming with his mom to see the horses that she works with.

I'm so glad that your gun is worth more than his life.


you are completely mis-construing the situation. Don't think I don't care and think something is more important than the life of the child.. If I could of done something to stop it in progress I would of.. But nothing would stop this from happening.. Nothing.. Even if you made firearms 100% illegal in the US taken all the citizens guns and destroyed them.. THIS STILL WOULD HAPPEN... Nothing will every stop a tragedy Nothing... World will never be perfect never be 100% peace it will ALWAYS be a battlefield.. Always. You cant do anything to stop something you don't have control its unfortunate. But you can protect your own rights and freedom.. Freedom and rights are one thing you will never ever comprehend.. You choose not todo something even if you have the power to stop it. Rather lay down hoping your government will protect you when they wont. You label 80% of the population as bad people when only .001% do crazed stuff. Truth is nobody wants to deal with the problem.. They rather let another deal with it.
Jenny1919
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Jenny1919 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:17 pm

TreatRothschild wrote:Actually, we still aren't. We're a Democratic Republic.


Im sure you don't even know the difference between a Republic and a democracy
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TreatRothschild
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby TreatRothschild » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Jenny1919 wrote:
TreatRothschild wrote:Actually, we still aren't. We're a Democratic Republic.


Im sure you don't even know the difference between a Republic and a democracy

If you want to think so, Jenny, that's quite all right with me.
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby TreatRothschild » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:49 pm

I would be curious to hear how the US didn't become a Democracy until 1900.
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
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Glaucon
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Glaucon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:15 pm

Oh, God, not the republic vs. democracy thing again. They are not the same. But you can be both. Which is the case for the USA. The 'republic' thing is about the form of the state/entity, the democracy bit is about how it's leadership is chosen. I know there is some weird fringe republican ideological bla bla out there that confuses people into thinking that there is something really deep about these two words (mostly because people want to see it because it would make sense, with the two words linked to the two major political parties), but it is just nonsense.

US democracy? Well, you introduced the 200 year number. But in one sense, the US democracy is over 200 years old (democratic system, in a sense it was before it was the USA because, in a sense, the UK was a democracy of a sort as well). And in another, it isn't (by modern standards), because many people didn't have the vote yet, like innitially the poor (came later), like afro-americans (came later as well) like women (came even later), and in many southern states black would-be voters (only came in the sixties). Maybe, in a hundred years, people will look back on it and say it still isn't democratic now, because foreigners (including ones that have been living there for nearly all their lives) are not allowed to vote. You never know.

Point is... unless you consider the abolition of slavery and the related war an act of tyranny (or the war on drugs) the USA has a fairly good track record of not turning violently against it's own people. Same goes for most western democracies since WW2. And the idea that you really need to own guns just in case the USA government turns crazy on you is just silly. If the white house really does go crazy... it has the nuclear launch codes.
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:51 pm

serene mistwood wrote:
Anarch Allegiere wrote:
It's wisest to generally be against everything that tries to domesticate and pacify citizens. All this fearmongering of 'little kids being killed by guns' is just gonna turn into a useful media-trick to domesticate the western citizens further...


Slightly off topic but I did want to answer this..

With 88 guns per 100 people – owning a gun IS the herd mentality of the US along with the shared values of the Judeo-Christian moral tradition. It is precisely the easy access of firearms that have now overpowered the individual as the state continually instills duty and patriotism via fear and paranoia against the mostly imaginary oppressor.

It is actually the individuals who are courageous enough to act in a way that goes against the conformity of the herd – in this society example NOT owning a gun - that are the courageous ones in my view. It is now the NON-gun holders or those for stricter gun laws that have become “The Criminal” of Nietzsche (as you seem to like him) pointing out a need for change, and is therefore someone to be valued by a society as helping to jolt the others from their current complacency and break out of the shared mediocrity

Believe me, I will be first in line and wait as eagerly as you do for the apathy of people to disappear and begin to fight back. But I don't believe personally arming everybody is any way forwards in a so-called developed nation. A move towards a truly democratic process (which is unlikely to happen by force), where the people demand better education to promote independent thought, demand better healthcare, demand a reduction in poverty and the wealth divide - won't happen by people simply being given more guns just to make them feel better and shut them up.


You almost insult me by assuming that I'd just be promoting whatever is non-conformist. Given though, all the guns in the world don't seem to do much for americans as it is... they still got one of the most corrupt, capitalistically skewed governments in the world and if we've to believe economical specialists today then the USA is heading towards poverty and will have to give up it's spot as world #1 superpower to China soon enough, due to half a century of conservative politics.

I'm also not exactly someone that is for a more democratic process... the USA is the prime example of democracy and capitalism gone wrong in my eyes anyway.

Maybe I'm too caught up in principle, and I indeed would like citizens to learn what their 'resilience against government' is worth, before giving them guns. Agreeably I must say that the US citizens don't hold this 'spirit of resilience' against a malfunctioning and almost deranged and evil government, so giving them the tools isn't going to do much (except seeing them abused for other things)... A sleeping dog with teeth is still only as useful as a toothless dog.

So yes... disarm the americans and give them some proper education first. :P
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serene mistwood
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby serene mistwood » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:12 pm

Anarch Allegiere wrote:

You almost insult me by assuming that I'd just be promoting whatever is non-conformist.


So yes... disarm the americans and give them some proper education first. :P


Bleh. It wasn't my intent to insult you. I just thought it odd you seemed to believe guns are not already pacifiers in the US. Nor have I ever considered you a fan of democracy. I was giving my opinion on social democracy - not yours.
I can agree at least with the last line however. :mrgreen:
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Resolver Bouchard
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Resolver Bouchard » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Jenny1919 wrote:
Resolver Bouchard wrote:I've just been speaking to a friend who went to the wake of one of the young boys killed in the attack, he used to love coming with his mom to see the horses that she works with.

I'm so glad that your gun is worth more than his life.


you are completely mis-construing the situation. Don't think I don't care and think something is more important than the life of the child.. If I could of done something to stop it in progress I would of.. But nothing would stop this from happening.. Nothing.. Even if you made firearms 100% illegal in the US taken all the citizens guns and destroyed them.. THIS STILL WOULD HAPPEN... Nothing will every stop a tragedy Nothing... World will never be perfect never be 100% peace it will ALWAYS be a battlefield.. Always. You cant do anything to stop something you don't have control its unfortunate. But you can protect your own rights and freedom.. Freedom and rights are one thing you will never ever comprehend.. You choose not todo something even if you have the power to stop it. Rather lay down hoping your government will protect you when they wont. You label 80% of the population as bad people when only .001% do crazed stuff. Truth is nobody wants to deal with the problem.. They rather let another deal with it.


I'm not misconstruing anything.

Restricted gun ownership would have prevented a vast number of these incidents from happening.

And I'll say it again, your peverse ideal that civilians owning firearms somehow keeps your government under control is indirectly responsible for the death of those children. It's just something you'll have to live with. I'm not calling you or anyone else that owns a gun bad or evil, just responsible.
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Sasi
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Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby Sasi » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:57 pm

Yes for freedom, having machine guns is a fundamental American freedom, yes yes!

Now, time to be more free again! Yeah for allowing people to have and sell drugs. Seriously, it is not against the individual liberties to restrict this right to use drugs, make drug parties and some good business with drugs, huh?

What what? Drugs kill? Meh, guns too!
...

Re: Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting

Postby ... » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:08 am

Sasi wrote:Yes for freedom, having machine guns is a fundamental American freedom, yes yes!

Now, time to be more free again! Yeah for allowing people to have and sell drugs. Seriously, it is not against the individual liberties to restrict this right to use drugs, make drug parties and some good business with drugs, huh?

What what? Drugs kill? Meh, guns too!



:o.O: :-| :silent: :eh: :problem: :hole:

That's my reaction to that.

Though, now that you mention it, it is mildly amusing that the same people that want to be able to kill people if they so wish in the name of 'liberty' are the people that were railing against the possibility of decriminalising drug use.

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