Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcome?

Will Same Sex Marriage be supported by the US Supreme Court

Yes
5
42%
Yes
5
42%
No
1
8%
No
1
8%
 
Total votes: 12
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Kaitlin
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Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcome?

Postby Kaitlin » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:16 pm

So it looks like the Supreme Court is going to have a look at the Defense of Marriage Act.

Will DOMA be upheld or will same sex marriage become the law of the land? Why?

Just to frame the debate, currently same sex marriage is legal in 9 states with three states adding it to the books via popular vote in the last election. The following countries also allow same sex marriage.
Canada
Sweden
Spain
Norway
Netherlands (Holland)
Belgium
Portugal
Iceland
Argentina
South Africa
*Mexico City, Mexico only
*Uruguay - Vote set to pass

With the current makeup of the Supreme Court, things don't seem favorable for gay marriage passage.

I have to admit I was pretty shocked when I read the following comments:

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on Monday found himself defending his legal writings that some find offensive and anti-gay.

Speaking at Princeton University, Scalia was asked by a gay student why he equates laws banning sodomy with those barring bestiality and murder.

"I don't think it's necessary, but I think it's effective," Scalia said, adding that legislative bodies can ban what they believe to be immoral.

Scalia has been giving speeches around the country to promote his new book, "Reading Law," and his lecture at Princeton comes just days after the court agreed to take on two cases that challenge the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman.

Some in the audience who had come to hear Scalia speak about his book applauded but more of those who attended the lecture clapped at freshman Duncan Hosie's question.

"It's a form of argument that I thought you would have known, which is called the 'reduction to the absurd,'" Scalia told Hosie of San Francisco during the question-and-answer period. "If we cannot have moral feelings against homosexuality, can we have it against murder? Can we have it against other things?"
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby ... » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:41 pm

Interesting article by Maggie McNeill today:

http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2012 ... rted-seas/

She's a sex worker rights activist, so there's some of that in there, but she makes a good point about the logical consequences of same sex marriage and the fact that the public may not yet be ready for those consequences (like polygamy).

I personally think it's anyone's individual prerogative to have a moral issue with homosexuality, if that's the way they see it (or, more usually, the way they've been indoctrinated to see it). I disagree that a person's moral preference should hold priority over another person's liberty. So, I'm for same sex marriage.

Incidentally, same sex marriage will soon be legal in the UK too. There's a consultation underway at the moment, and many people seem to believe it's about whether same sex marriage should be legal. It isn't about that, as specifically stated in the consultation document. It's about how and where and when to introduce same sex marriage. Not that that's stopped the frothy-mouthed holy men spewing shite all over the place, of course.
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby Glaucon » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:02 pm

I think it will likely be a favorable outcome for same-sex mariage. The Supreme Court decided to pick the issue up (they get to pick and choose, for some odd reason). And this comes at a time that Republicans feel they are losing the middle ground with their anti gay marriage stance, because public opinion is swinging, moving towards acceptance. Most republicans won't answer questions about gay marriage at the moment. They know their position is no longer that of the majority.

So... why did they pick it up? I think the Supreme Court felt it was time to add a little to their legacy of enabling equal treatment. I assume they voted to pick it up, which likely means Roberts or the other slightly moderate judge probably voted with the liberals... which, I suspect, spells a pro-gay mariage ruling.
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby Olaf » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:55 am

I hope it is a favourable outcome, just so this silly issue might be put to rest sooner.
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby Kaitlin » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:26 am

Oor wrote:Interesting article by Maggie McNeill today:

http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2012 ... rted-seas/


Really interesting read. She is right that the same argument against same sex marriage would apply in many other cases so a repeal of the law would certainly set precedent.

What I found the most interesting was the reminder that while historically homosexuality might have had more acceptance it has never had corresponding support as a valid marriage. Progeny and the transfer of wealth are likely to blame. This is uncharted territory.
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby Glaucon » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:54 am

Well, marriage has been an socio-economical institution throughout history. It largely stopped having that function with the rise of individualism, emancipation and with divorce becoming an acceptible way to end a marriage.

I used to be of the opinion that gay people should not wed. After all, what is the point (provided that they are given the same rights as married people when they form a couple, enter a contract or whatever)? Let the straight folks have their marriages - whoever symbolic and irrational they have become, I used to think. But I failed to properly appreciate the symbolic value marriage had for many gay people. It is important to them, so... let them get married.

And sure, it may be important to other people that same-sex couples should NOT get married, but that is a preference about what other people do, which doesn't directly impact the person with that preference. And, being a liberal (as in... someone who believes in freedom in so far as it doesn't limit the freedom/lives of others), I think that such preferences (like jealousy, the desire to see others be hurt, the desire to punish those that don't bow down to your God, etc.) have no weight and should be ignored.
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby Mynerva » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:08 pm

Olaf wrote:I hope it is a favourable outcome, just so this silly issue might be put to rest sooner.



Yes, me too. It looks like in Germany the constitutional court will look at it too - and I hope they will finally make it all equal. I also do not see plural marriage as such a danger. If consenting adults want to marry more then one person - and are willing to split the legal benefits - they can be my guest.
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby Kaitlin » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:23 pm

I'd like to see it resolved but what does "get it done" mean. If I look at the aftermath of the civil rights movement I'm not encouraged that legalizing same sex marriage will be a resolution of the issue. Making something the law of the land doesn't change hearts and minds and many of those hearts and minds are hardened to the possibility and homophobic. I can see their rights being frustrated in countless ways.
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby Mynerva » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:35 am

Kaitlin wrote:I'd like to see it resolved but what does "get it done" mean. If I look at the aftermath of the civil rights movement I'm not encouraged that legalizing same sex marriage will be a resolution of the issue. Making something the law of the land doesn't change hearts and minds and many of those hearts and minds are hardened to the possibility and homophobic. I can see their rights being frustrated in countless ways.



No, it is not the resolution of the issue. But it is a step in the right direction.
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Re: Supreme Court Picks up Same Sex Marriage - Likely Outcom

Postby Kaitlin » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:35 am

Mynerva wrote:
Kaitlin wrote:I'd like to see it resolved but what does "get it done" mean. If I look at the aftermath of the civil rights movement I'm not encouraged that legalizing same sex marriage will be a resolution of the issue. Making something the law of the land doesn't change hearts and minds and many of those hearts and minds are hardened to the possibility and homophobic. I can see their rights being frustrated in countless ways.



No, it is not the resolution of the issue. But it is a step in the right direction.


It is.
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