Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Kaitlin » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:15 pm

Tertionus wrote:It's my experience that articles are best judged on a standalone basis, rather than in an overall 'publication' basis. There are some very good articles in some very bad publication, and vice versa.

As for this case, unless they're planning to go to North Korea for the jury, a fair trial is impossible, at this point.


I agree on both points. The trial will of course have the jurisdiction changed but I'm not sure that will matter one bit.

Glaucon wrote:I agree wholeheartedly with the first linked article. The way this was hyped before the facts were known, the way people jumped to conclusions, the way people from both sides of the national US-pastime (fighting the culture war) jumped on it... is really rather disgraceful, I feel. If a fair and unbiased justice system is your goal, this whole hype highlights the 'sickness' of the system quite well.


This is where we disagree. The hype has a benefit to the system and while I'm not a fan of political figures weighing in on this issue the outrage was justified and wide spread so I would expect them to have an opinion on one side or the other rather than sticking their head in rather neutral sand. The only bright spot of that article for me was that it did mention both extremes. Each has been played out in the court of public opinion.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Glaucon » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:19 pm

Hmmm, you may disagree, of course. Naturally... my previous post included a j'accuse towards you (and many others in this thread). I implicitly accused you of being on one side in the culture wars... ideologically biased. And well... I mean no disrespect. You know I appreciate you as a poster, but... I do believe you are.

I have accused Mat of being 'biased' that way (but for the other side), which led him to foe me. Your insistence that that 'doctored' recording was insignificant does lead me to conclude you are also possessed of 'the spirit of party' (but the 'liberal' side, in your case). I get how politics/parties work. If you are in a fight, it isn't about being unbiased. Fox is the enemy/are the good guys, and Michael Moore is the devil/hero. It is how things go... how people behave. Without that social mechanism, there would have been a lot less wars fought. And maybe this kind of enthusiasm for 'one's own side' and ones ideals is good for something. But... if you are interested in justice in a particular case, this kind of thinking (the thing I THINK you are 'suffering' from on this issue... I just think it... up to you to know for sure) just doesn't seem appropriate. Justice is supposed to be blind. Not a pundit.
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Kaitlin » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:28 pm

Glaucon wrote:Hmmm, you may disagree, of course. Naturally... my previous post included a j'accuse towards you (and many others in this thread). I implicitly accused you of being on one side in the culture wars... ideologically biased. And well... I mean no disrespect. You know I appreciate you as a poster, but... I do believe you are.


I am absolutely on the side of race being all up in this entire issue. I have no problem with that being screamed from the rooftops. It is unacceptable. I am also loving being on completely the opposite side of Mat/Hawt on this issue.

Justice hasn't had anything to do with this case. That is the issue.

ETA: Justice for the victim has nothing to do with justice for the piece of shit that shot him with a bag of skittles and tea in his hand. So no...one sentence on a tape doesn't change one thing for me and its pretty insignificant in the death of a teenager. If this case hadn't been met with the outrage I've seen I would have really wondered about the common decency in this country. Who really cares what Obama, Al, Newt or Rush have to say about the issue.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
Mat
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:47 am
SL Name: Mat
Caste: Warrior
Role: Defender of Freedom

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Mat » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Kaitlin wrote:
I am absolutely on the side of race being all up in this entire issue. I have no problem with that being screamed from the rooftops. It is unacceptable.

Some crazy people run around all the time screaming the world is going to end tomorrow even if it has no bases in fact.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Kaitlin » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:06 pm

Mat Vhargon wrote:
Kaitlin wrote:
I am absolutely on the side of race being all up in this entire issue. I have no problem with that being screamed from the rooftops. It is unacceptable.

Some crazy people run around all the time screaming the world is going to end tomorrow even if it has no bases in fact.


Right...Right... :o.O:
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Glaucon » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:37 am

Hmmm, well... you culture warriors fight on, then. Always lots of stuff to fight over, to see only one side of. 98 percentages, pizza, birth control pills, debt, creationism in Tennessee, racism, an election... Enjoy the holy wars. :)
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Kaitlin » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:29 am

Glaucon wrote:Hmmm, well... you culture warriors fight on, then. Always lots of stuff to fight over, to see only one side of. 98 percentages, pizza, birth control pills, debt, creationism in Tennessee, racism, an election... Enjoy the holy wars. :)


Glaucon the fact that you lump racism in with the debt, birth control pills etc says it all. It is exactly why I don't have a problem at all with issues like this causing things to bubble over.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Glaucon » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:56 pm

Kaitlin wrote:
Glaucon wrote:Hmmm, well... you culture warriors fight on, then. Always lots of stuff to fight over, to see only one side of. 98 percentages, pizza, birth control pills, debt, creationism in Tennessee, racism, an election... Enjoy the holy wars. :)


Glaucon the fact that you lump racism in with the debt, birth control pills etc says it all. It is exactly why I don't have a problem at all with issues like this causing things to bubble over.


Ehm... you feel that a woman's rights to reproductive self-determination pales in light of the issue of racism in the justice system? For shame! :o

(Just kidding... maybe racism is a bigger issue that whether or not birth control gets included in a mandate. Fair enough. ;) )

Not sure it 'says it all'. But I am sure it seems so to you. I think that Mat told me that this or that thing I said 'said it all' as well, some time ago.

It is often how things work out when the spirit of party is in charge. Those that don't declare loyalty to one side of the other are regarded as the enemy by both. :)

(Which is why the 'spirit of party' reinforces itself once it is established. Independents tend to be few and always under suspicion of really being the 'opposition' from either side. You are either with them or against them. Being in the reasonable middle isn't good for one's career in politics, for the most part. People like clear choices, Red, Blue... not some purple with yellow spots that they would need to examine more closely before they can make sense of it.
User avatar
Kaitlin
Posts: 3057
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:16 pm
SL Name: Kaitlin Eiren
Caste: RL ATM
Contact:

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Kaitlin » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:05 pm

Forgive me for not really understanding at all what the death of this teenager has to do with politics.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

Once upon a time... Kait
User avatar
Glaucon
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Glaucon » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:29 pm

Kaitlin wrote:Forgive me for not really understanding at all what the death of this teenager has to do with politics.


Eh? Uhm... well...

1. Much of the 'outrage' caused by this incident was directed at the 'stand your ground' law. Laws are made by politicians, and subject to political debate. Thus, outrage about such a law in public discourse is directly political.

2. Politicians commented on it, and commented on politicians commenting on it. Some were wearing hoodies. Same with pundits and politically affiliated news networks.

3. The call to do something about racism is pretty much a political message, even if it is also a 'moral' one.

3. Even in this thread, the political 'divide' was along familiar lines (to those that have been following debates on this forum).

Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron