Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Mat
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Mat » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:05 pm


Glad it is finally moving along if the rummers are to be believed. Good luck finding a jury pool for this case that has not been tainted, my bet is that the case gets moved to another jurisdiction eventually.
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Hilda » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:31 am

My favorite magazine, never letting me down.

Justice for Martin. And justice for Zimmerman too.
Whatever that is.

http://www.economist.com/node/21551546
Mat
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Mat » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:31 pm

Anna Warren wrote:My favorite magazine, never letting me down.

Justice for Martin. And justice for Zimmerman too.
Whatever that is.

http://www.economist.com/node/21551546

Wow that has to be one of the best unbiased news articles I have read in a very long time, it was a refreshing read.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Hilda » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:05 pm

@ Mat: Glad you liked it. It is a phenomenal publication...rarely I disagree with it. Keeps it objective, international avoiding euphemisms. They actually have a writing guide style that is superb to download.
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Kaitlin
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Kaitlin » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:53 pm

Anna Warren wrote:My favorite magazine, never letting me down.

Justice for Martin. And justice for Zimmerman too.
Whatever that is.

http://www.economist.com/node/21551546


I found their earlier article far more enlightening and on point since it didn't sidestep the issue to take a few unrelated political shots. They were also pretty clear about the role race played in this crime.

The Injustice
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/03/trayvon-martin
Even if you don't think the Florida law goes too far, it's hard to see how it applies in this case. Mr Zimmerman was apparently chasing Martin, which is the opposite of standing your ground. If Mr Zimmerman's claim to self-defence is credible, it's hard to imagine what wouldn't count as self-defence in Florida. The willingness on the part of the police department to accept this argument at face value is baffling—or would be baffling if not for the fact that Martin was a young black man. I don't see any other interpretation. So this story has as much to do with race as it does with gun laws.
...
In the world as it is rather than the world as we would like it to be, certain groups face differential risks of injustice, violence, instability, or abuse. That's why black parents feel a need to give this warning to their children, poor parents often feel a need to give a similar warning, all parents feel a need to give special warnings to their daughters, and so on. The only non-awful part of this story is the public outrage over Martin's death, which reflects the fact that Americans, as a group, retain some baseline belief that justice is real and everyone has a right to it. Let's hope that belief proves to be as prophetic as his father's warning.
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

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Mat
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Mat » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:39 pm

Kaitlin wrote:
Anna Warren wrote:My favorite magazine, never letting me down.

Justice for Martin. And justice for Zimmerman too.
Whatever that is.

http://www.economist.com/node/21551546


I found their earlier article far more enlightening and on point since it didn't sidestep the issue to take a few unrelated political shots. They were also pretty clear about the role race played in this crime.

The Injustice
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/03/trayvon-martin
Even if you don't think the Florida law goes too far, it's hard to see how it applies in this case. Mr Zimmerman was apparently chasing Martin, which is the opposite of standing your ground. If Mr Zimmerman's claim to self-defence is credible, it's hard to imagine what wouldn't count as self-defence in Florida. The willingness on the part of the police department to accept this argument at face value is baffling—or would be baffling if not for the fact that Martin was a young black man. I don't see any other interpretation. So this story has as much to do with race as it does with gun laws.
...
In the world as it is rather than the world as we would like it to be, certain groups face differential risks of injustice, violence, instability, or abuse. That's why black parents feel a need to give this warning to their children, poor parents often feel a need to give a similar warning, all parents feel a need to give special warnings to their daughters, and so on. The only non-awful part of this story is the public outrage over Martin's death, which reflects the fact that Americans, as a group, retain some baseline belief that justice is real and everyone has a right to it. Let's hope that belief proves to be as prophetic as his father's warning.

Naa I do not find it on point at all, it is more opinion and nothing else. What I find refreshing is reporting the facts and letting the reader draw their own conclusion that is not what I found in your exert you provided only more sensationalism that may or may not be in fact true..
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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Kaitlin
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Kaitlin » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:50 pm

Mat Vhargon wrote:Naa I do not find it on point at all, it is more opinion and nothing else. What I find refreshing is reporting the facts and letting the reader draw their own conclusion that is not what I found in your exert you provided only more sensationalism that may or may not be in fact true..


I see. So now that this publication doesn't cater to your own viewpoint it is now a less phenomenal unbiased publication. This is exactly what I expected and why I posted the earlier article. :lol:
Some people create their own storms, then get upset when it rains.

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Mat
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Mat » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:52 pm

Kaitlin wrote:
Mat Vhargon wrote:Naa I do not find it on point at all, it is more opinion and nothing else. What I find refreshing is reporting the facts and letting the reader draw their own conclusion that is not what I found in your exert you provided only more sensationalism that may or may not be in fact true..


I see. So now that this publication doesn't cater to your own viewpoint it is now a less phenomenal unbiased publication. Exactly what I expected and why I posted the earlier article. :lol:

Never said that it was a phenomenal unbiased publication. I did say that the one article I was referencing was refreshingly unbiased.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Tertionus » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:09 pm

It's my experience that articles are best judged on a standalone basis, rather than in an overall 'publication' basis. There are some very good articles in some very bad publication, and vice versa.

As for this case, unless they're planning to go to North Korea for the jury, a fair trial is impossible, at this point.
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Glaucon
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Re: Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, Stand Your Ground Law, etc.

Postby Glaucon » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:03 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with the first linked article. The way this was hyped before the facts were known, the way people jumped to conclusions, the way people from both sides of the national US-pastime (fighting the culture war) jumped on it... is really rather disgraceful, I feel. If a fair and unbiased justice system is your goal, this whole hype highlights the 'sickness' of the system quite well.

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