[News] Social Media outrage over Twitch user allegedly beating a woman while streaming

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Sasi
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Re: [News] Social Media outrage over Twitch user allegedly beating a woman while streaming

Postby Sasi » Mon May 09, 2016 12:56 pm

Tamar Luminos wrote:This isn't a Gorean thing, or a roleplay thing, or a BDSM thing. And I'm pretty damned squicked out that any of y'all might think it is.


Clearly not a BDSM thing, but definitely a Gorean one. Beating, kicking, cuffing and whipping (with a whip, a belt, etc) a woman who will scream and beg is quite normal in Gor.... Women get abused all over the books and it's only because Norman tells us that that women want and seek this harshness because they can only respect men strong enough to put them under the whip, to discipline and punish them, to threaten their life that we are not much shocked...

But in our reality, a man beating and abusing a woman upset us (with reason, of course) and a woman who would react like the average Gorean slave would make a psy wonders if she were not suffering from Stockholm syndrome....
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: [News] Social Media outrage over Twitch user allegedly beating a woman while streaming

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Mon May 09, 2016 1:09 pm

Forum isn't allowing me to post a reply. Great, so image it is:

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Re: [News] Social Media outrage over Twitch user allegedly beating a woman while streaming

Postby Harlequin » Mon May 09, 2016 1:33 pm

I'd love to see these arguments used on a dungeon monitor. Seriously. I won't call anyone a fucking idiot because that's a pretty broad brush, but this attitude is fucking idiocy.

Fuck it, I'm out. The arguments and attitudes here are just... I can't do it. This is an overwhelming amount of clueless and out if touch wtf-ery and I think I get why I don't like SL Gor. Holy crap.
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Re: [News] Social Media outrage over Twitch user allegedly beating a woman while streaming

Postby Oor » Mon May 09, 2016 1:37 pm

A woman getting hit back is always something that brings up raw emotions. Rather than talk about what sick fucks people in this thread are, how Gor is doomed because (I really don't even know) and cast aspersion on the squickiness of other posters based on not having even been interested enough to listen to the audio (there is no video), maybe we could dial it back a bit? Just a little?

The only things that are known about this incident are:

    The audio recording is of two obviously drunk people, one male, one female.
    The female screams and wails throughout, loud enough to be unintelligible.
    The male responds with derogatory names and insults.
    At some points it sounds like there is physical confrontation.
    After the fact, the male posted to one of his social media accounts to say that he was drunk, she hit him first, he "had to do what I did". He also says in another message that he "hit her and fell on top of her and hit her again".

Unless contradicted by both parties present to the extent that securing a conviction would be impossible, it is likely that law enforcement will pursue charges if they're able to locate the man in the audio (and prove it was him in a court of law).

Nobody has suggested that BDSM or Gor or role play are involved here. The point being made (I think, and I can be corrected if wrong) was that many people in this community, and in BDSM communities, tend to have relationships that other people would find, for whatever reason, unacceptable. Some people have practices within their relationships that are, in many states and/or countries, illegal. In some countries and states, your consent to being spanked, flogged, beaten, spat on, bound, "play-raped" etc. means diddlysquat in a court if you're caught doing it. So if you're unlucky enough to get on the wrong side of a previously good friend, or a nosy neighbour, or an internet hate mob, it doesn't matter if you're Mr. Consent himself with a signed and dated contract, or Mr. Asshole Abuser punching seven drunken bells out of his partner - in the eyes of the law, you're the same.

And to some people in some circles, the woman who is allowing herself to be beaten by the drunken asshole abuser and the woman who is allowing herself to be flogged by Mr. Consent because she gets off on it, are the same - one of them is suffering from battered person syndrome and the other is a victim of her own internalised misogyny. And if you're prepared to say that the former (battered person syndrome with the asshole drunk) is a valid reason to erase a woman's agency and insist that she be forcibly removed from a situation you don't find acceptable (and the asshole abuser jailed, even if he was reciprocating), why is it not also valid to say the same for the latter?

To wit, the point was not "many of us are into BDSM so we should be cool with some spouse battering hurr hurr" as I read it. It was "many of us are involved in relationships that might push the boundaries of acceptability for many people and are potentially at risk of being similarly hounded and/or prosecuted based on other people's disagreements." Where are the ethical boundaries? Who decides?

And to take that question further, for me, at what point does the "concerned internet citizen" overstep? Was it when Anonymous took over his instagram account? When he was told to kill himself for the fifth time? For the five hundredth? If he follows that advice will everyone be righteously happy that a dude who's apparently recently lost his dad and made a mistake for which he has apologised is now dead? What if it's true that she hit him first? Does it change anything? Does it matter that nobody knows whether she did or not before going after him as the devil of the day on 9th May 2016?

Sure, you do dumb shit publicly you expect to catch some flack for it, but when so little is known, the baying mob of vigilantes can be a bit much.
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: [News] Social Media outrage over Twitch user allegedly beating a woman while streaming

Postby Tamar Luminos » Mon May 09, 2016 3:55 pm

The argument, as I understand it- is that Anarch is saying that people who heard what sounded like a man beating a screaming woman on a live feed on Twitch, should have "stayed out of it" and not reported what sounded like an assault/abusive situation to the authorities. I disagree vehemently. The rest of the discussion is pretty much fluff and BS.

This seems relevant:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/08/should-you-call-the-police-if-your-neighbors-are-fighting.html

Should You Call the Police If Your Neighbors Are Fighting?
By Christopher Coble, Esq. on August 18, 2015 2:51 PM
Most of us have heard the apocryphal tale of Kitty Genovese, a woman who was brutally attacked and murdered in New York in 1964 while her neighbors ignored her screams for help. While many of the details of that particular story have been refuted, anecdotes about neighbors who don't want to get involved in possible criminal situations abound.

As uncomfortable as intervention can be, none of us want to be known as the person who did nothing when calling the police might have saved someone's life. So when you hear your neighbors fighting, and it sounds bad, should you call the cops?

Duty to Report

We should start by saying that most people are under no legal obligation to call the police if they witness a crime. So you likely won't get into trouble for not calling the cops on your arguing neighbors.

That said, there still some good reasons to call police, especially if the fight sounds physically dangerous to one or both of the parties. And if you're worried about being drawn into a criminal case or domestic dispute, you can always report the incident anonymously by logging on to a police website, calling from a public phone, or simply calling 911.

Domestic Disputes

Domestic abuse and domestic violence have become more public issues, after long being swept under the proverbial rug by families, neighbors, and police. And this is a good thing. Domestic violence can be deadly, and battered women's syndrome may keep many victims of domestic abuse from seeking help themselves, in which case they many need outside help to break the cycle of violence.

And it is important to keep in mind domestic violence is not confined to husbands and wives. Children, elderly relatives, and even long-term roommates can be victims of domestic abuse. And some domestic violence victim resources may allow third parties to report incidents of domestic abuse.

Even though you may not be required to call the police if your neighbors are having a loud or violent fight, you may be saving someone's life if you do. If you're worried about any criminal implications of a domestic violence incident, you may want to contact an experienced criminal attorney.

- See more at: http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/0 ... SBa3V.dpuf


And also, this. http://www.thehotline.org/help/ The National Domestic Abuse hotline is 1-800-799-7233 and the website has a chat option as well- I can't imagine erring on the side of caution is a bad thing, ever if it saves someone's life the one time it's needed.
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
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Re: [News] Social Media outrage over Twitch user allegedly beating a woman while streaming

Postby Oor » Mon May 09, 2016 5:41 pm

So then the question becomes - to help/report or not to, and that's just not something I see as a black and white issue - not in theory (where I would probably differ with most people) and not in practice.

In considering whether people should help/report or not in practice, it's important to note that the widely recognised Bystander Effect comes into play. This phenomenon, incidentally, was first studied in response to the same Kitty Genovese you referred to in your post. The wiki entry on Bystander Effect addresses this case particularly:

According to an article published in American Psychologist in 2007, the original story of Genovese's murder was exaggerated by the media. Specifically, there were not 38 eyewitnesses, the police were contacted at least once during the attack, and many of the bystanders who overheard the attack could not actually see the event. The authors of the article suggest that the story continues to be misrepresented in social psychology textbooks because it functions as a parable and serves as a dramatic example for students.


In theoretical terms, and your mileage may vary, but for my money there are some very, very good reasons not to call the authorities unless you're certain there is a dire emergency taking place. I might get more on board with the "it's everyone's business because we're one big happy clappy society and we should call the cops just in case" mode of thinking when the negatives of bystander effect seem to be more deleterious than the negatives of calling the authorities without good cause. At the moment, that doesn't seem to be the case to me at all.
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Re: [News] Social Media outrage over Twitch user allegedly beating a woman while streaming

Postby Tantus » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:51 am

Euro 2016(France) is stirring media storms here for all the wrong reasons! It began with English supporters clashing with French police, then days later Russians joined in too. I knew it was coming... and it did, when national media started blaming Russia for sending in highly trained hooligans. You'd need to be following the troubles in Ukraine to understand the line ;)

The best part was the response from Russia:

But for now, the mood here is defiant.

"The lads defended the honour of their country," Russian media quoted MP Igor Lebedev, who is also on the executive committee of the Football Union.

The spokesman for Russia's powerful Investigative Committee went even further.

"A normal man, as he should be, surprises them," tweeted Vladimir Markin, referring to European outrage at Russian hooligans. "They're used to seeing 'men' at gay parades," he concluded.

So the fans' own reaction is hardly surprising.

"Of course we are worried about the team, that's the main thing," Alexei told the BBC from France, insisting that there would be no more trouble among the fans without "provocation".

He claimed that the clashes at the end of Saturday's match were sparked by a barrage of abuse from England fans.
"Maybe it was wrong what we did," Alexei admitted. "But if people shout insults, they have to be ready to pay for that."


The highlighted part could have been straight from a Gorean book!

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