Project Sansar

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Tamar Luminos
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Tamar Luminos » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:27 pm

ZOMG guys, I got into Sansar! I got a creator's invite, downloaded it, and started that puppy up, curious.

First impression: pretty, very pretty settings. Lighting, sound, materials were all pretty spectacular. Avatars were decidedly ungood. Not like, SL 2009 bad, but like rubbery, dead-eyed, unattractive, and cartoonish looking. The current round of SL basic avatars looks light years better, strange to say. Odd that they didn't put as much time into making the avatar choices look at least as good as the current built-in SL avatars.

It's in..pretty much pre-alpha right now, so all you can do in world is visit built "experiences" and walk around. Slowly. No jumping, no flying, no running. There's no mouselook that I could figure out, the only options are to cam around using your right mouse button, and there's a button to take a screen shot and save it. That's about it. I got way bored after visiting the second experience. I only saw one other avatar at one of the two and we didn't interact (not sure if Chat is enabled yet).

I wanted to try the only other thing you can do in Sansar at the moment, build. Well, can't really build in Sansar, just import things made or bought outside of Sansar and edit them in world to make them bigger, smaller, move them around, adjust the lighting on them, etc. I created an "experience" of my own, a pre-made one (you're offered a short list of pre-mades, a toybox, a scottish highland, a grid, etc.) and it was indeed very pretty when it was made- lighting was gorgeous, materials was epic, sound was great. I walked around a bit, then tried to tinker with the edit controls, the ones I recognized, anyway. There were some I didn't know how to interact with, poked at them a bit and didn't notice any changes. You can buy meshes from their store, but the store didn't seem to have much and it wasn't categorized so it was all just in one big jumble. Most of what I saw didn't look so hot. There were some freebies. I got bored with building and even (gasp) shopping very quickly.

My takeaway from my first few brief visits?
The good: graphics are better than SL, no doubt. The lighting, sound, materials, are all better, though I'd argue that I've seen sims make great use of what SL does offer in those areas. If all you want to do is walk through pretty settings, you'll love it. I didn't use VR but I'd imagine if you're looking for pretty settings to walk through in VR, you'll enjoy it.

The bad: building was...disappointing. Their marketplace was disappointing. The lack of things to do thus far and ways to interact with the environments was disappointing. If you're wanting to build, you'd better be good at creating things outside of Sansar. If you're already an established mesh builder/texturer- you might find it interesting to see how different your items look in a better rendered setting. Right now, I'm sure LL is hoping to attract builders to create experiences to try to attract patrons for those experiences because that's the only way they're going to get people in. That's why they're extending the Creator's Preview, but I'm not sure how successful they've been.

The ugly: the avatars are bad. They looked bad, the movement was bad (slow, jerky), and honestly that's pretty much a deal breaker for me. Give me my gorgeous SL avatars anyday over the existing Sansar ones. I'm assuming this is something they're going to address/improve at some point (surely!) but for now- they're not good. Also the lag when opening a new experience was significant, 5-10 minutes for the most part. It made what was already a bit tedious even more dull and added to my overall sense of 'meh'.

I'm sure I'll give it another try. Have considered trying to actually build an experience to see if I can find the appeal but not sure I can work up the motivation. For now, SL really doesn't have any competition from Sansar as far as I'm concerned.
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
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Glaucon
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Glaucon » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:12 pm

Interesting post. What you said echoed what I have been reading.

Bad-looking avatars, no interaction, just walking around... it makes me wonder if they have learned anything from SL. Or maybe they think they learned something from their past: that it is enough to just create 'potential' and that others are going to make it great.

Maybe they don't understand that 2017 isn't 2004, that people are probably not going to be too energized by an online 3D sandbox alone, now. Or maybe it is all about making it a silly-goggles platform, only.

I had hoped they would have gotten it, from seeing what SL has that makes people love it (having cool/pretty avatars, tinkering with those, building your own X, interacting, the zillion options, adult content) and what makes people go meh about SL (not enough options to turn it into a 'gaming experience', insane land pricing, lag, engine limitations and so forth) and build something new to improve on all of that, and take the concept further. But all they seem to have managed in the several years that have passed is to create an online 3 rendering engine.

Based on all that, it seems it certainly won't be any competition to SL. At most, it looks like it will be some niche product for the oculus enthusiasts.
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Sasi
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Sasi » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:11 pm

I suppose they rely on creators to make avatars look good... Personally, it's not by biggest concern...

But no adult content?? Seriously... I could understand if they banned all escort activity or purely sex themed sims, why not.... But such a ban means as well that you won't be able to have sex furnitures you could use in your own private place with your partner. No mesh cock neither and no adult RP (No Gor for example).

It's stupid...
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Glaucon
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Glaucon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:58 pm

Sasi wrote:I suppose they rely on creators to make avatars look good... Personally, it's not by biggest concern...

But no adult content?? Seriously... I could understand if they banned all escort activity or purely sex themed sims, why not.... But such a ban means as well that you won't be able to have sex furnitures you could use in your own private place with your partner. No mesh cock neither and no adult RP (No Gor for example).

It's stupid...


I totally get why having adult content might be an issue, since they are obviously courting mainstream VR investors, creators and potential users. And 'money' is scared of adult content. As are the majorities of states in the world. Adult content is 'controversial'. We still live in a pretty puritan world.

From our perspective, SL allowing adult content might be one of the things SL got right. But you could perhaps argue that is also one of the things that has hampered SL in the past. When it was a hype back in 2006/2007, the stories about how great SL was, how it offered so many opportunities for this and that quickly got overshadowed by stories of flying penis attacks and age-players. SL's rep with the general public did take a nose-dive quickly. But even to those that were a bit more informed about these things (gamers, nerds in general), SL did gain a rep. of being nothing but one big online brothel/sex-shop.

But the thing is: if you are going to base yourself on the model of having user created content, it is going to be pretty limiting to the content creators when you somehow refuse to allow adult content. Just look at mods. Any game that allows for modding will quickly see various 'nude-mods'. And are users supposed to create their own avatars, but they will have to include perma-underwear for it? For most SL creators, that would probably out of the question. People can upload their own textures, but those textures can't have anything on it not intended for children's eyes? Wow. That is really creating your 'own experience'.

And how would they even police this stuff? Hope the users play snitch? Have many LL moderators going around? I doubt any of that would work.

I am not sure if the current people in control of LL are really stupid. I won't exclude that possibility, but I find it more likely that they made the decision to 'say' that they don't plan on adult content, to present an investor-friendly face to the world, while they secretly KNOW that adult content will make it's way onto the platform soon enough, which they won't be able to prevent, because they don't really have the tools for it, except for having users police their own experiences.

If that is even an issue. The way they have been presenting it now, players won't even be able to create their own avatar for use throughout Sansar. Instead, they advanced the idea that you would get a set avatar for each experience.

Clearly, if they are even interested in appealing to the SL user-base (which they might not be), all of this is going to be a great-big no-no for most of it. I mean, clearly, one of the things the current users tend to like most about SL is playing dress-up, making and adjusting their own avatars, and showing those off. All that gone? Then most of SL's user-base is out of the window (dare I say it? I'll dare... especially the female player base, I am guessing). The group they might appeal to now would be 3D creators/builders that always wanted to create their own 3D environment to show of to others, and that want something better than SL for that. Which seems pretty niche to me.
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Manon Seid
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Manon Seid » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:48 pm

I always wanted to create a forest. In SL i played around with it on our tiny homestead sim, But the limited amount of prims always killed most of my ideas. So perhaps that's what i am going to make for "My very own experience" in Sansar. I was invited in last week as well and whole heartedly agree with your description Tamar and with your analysis about the adult content too Glaucon. Where's my date by the way? :teehee:
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DarbyDollinger
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby DarbyDollinger » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:23 am

Sounds like a glorified chat room.
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Cassie
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Cassie » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:24 pm

So if you can't personalize your avatar and there is no possibility for adult content what are people exactly to do to enjoy their time?
Is this like making pretty painting environment ? I don't think walking in a pretty virtual forest is going to cut it in the long run. Well even semi long at this point, Second Life's real great hit is the possibility to leave the child realm that usually coats online gaming. Virtual Reality is not going to suffice either, especially considering how little that thing is really selling considering STEAM's raiting on VR items.
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Manon Seid
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Manon Seid » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:46 pm

I think it sounds like a project thats far from ready for visitors, where the lindens at this point are trying to get creators to come aboard to create nice and interesting stuff that they can later use to lure people in. They just invited to join a huge $10,000 creators contest where best gaming and media experience are highly rewarded, so i am going to take a wild guess they are hoping someone comes up with brilliant ideas and great implementations on what to use Sansar for. How the hell they expect that to happen in a few weeks i have no idea - contest ends 28th this month and i was invited to Sansar a few weeks back days before i left for vacation. Building mesh and textures and design ideas - AND scripting takes a while. I know for me that would take much more than a few weeks. But of course i am not pro and i am guessing the only real contestants are the huge creator brands who has been in Sansar for months at this point. Stupid to invite people like me too. I kinda feel a bit butt hurt about that actually. Id like to enter that contest but whats the point, pft.
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Tamar Luminos » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:47 pm

Well, like I said it's in "pre-Alpha", not even Beta right now. I know a there's a lot of things that are going to be added before it's officially released, hopefully better avatars, more interaction, better marketplace, etc. There's going to be scripted objects, though I know they won't be using LSL, so there will be some interaction with the environment at some point, in Experiences that have scripted objects. And there will be chat and social stuff, animations and such. Just not quite there yet. And you can edit the avatars, a little. Right now you pick skin color, hair style, hair color, and from pre-set complete outfits. There's just not a lot of choices right now, and none of them look as good as the new basic avatars SL's got out currently.
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
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Tantus
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Re: Project Sansar

Postby Tantus » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 pm

Way to flirt your way in, Tamar! :D

How large are the 'experiences compared to an SL sim, did you make it from one border to the other?

With LL's lack of direction, it's sounding more like a Blue Mars 2, than an SL2!

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