Wilder-mania

Geert Wilders is...

... right about everything. Wilders for prime-minister of Dutchland!
1
4%
... right about everything. Wilders for prime-minister of Dutchland!
1
4%
... right about a lot of things. It is good he is around in Holland-country.
0
No votes
... right about a lot of things. It is good he is around in Holland-country.
0
No votes
... partially right about some things, but his sollutions aren't great.
0
No votes
... partially right about some things, but his sollutions aren't great.
0
No votes
... wrong about a lot of things, but it is good he is there, to teach those other politicans a lesson.
1
4%
... wrong about a lot of things, but it is good he is there, to teach those other politicans a lesson.
1
4%
... someone with bad sollutions and simplistic views, but he does say some true things.
2
8%
... someone with bad sollutions and simplistic views, but he does say some true things.
2
8%
... an ass and a drama-queen, who deals in fear-mongering and political theatrics.
5
21%
... an ass and a drama-queen, who deals in fear-mongering and political theatrics.
5
21%
... a danger, who should be stopped, using the law against him.
3
13%
... a danger, who should be stopped, using the law against him.
3
13%
 
Total votes: 24
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Mynerva
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Mynerva » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:31 pm

Sabina Takakura wrote:My point was that there are extremists in every religion. To single it out and say that it's only followers of Islam is false.
To single it out and say that it is any one group is false.
People are just crazy. Regardless of race, religion, or creed.

My information about hijab and it's uses comes not from my reading of the Qur'an (although I have) but from it's interpretation by my family, specifically my brother in law, Mr. Hassan from Aman, Jordan.
He went through this same procedure with his little sister, who chose not to wear hijab. As well as speaking with the local Sufi Sheikh. (Note, my brother in law and my sister are not Sufi)

I will grant that the sentence was taken out of context, but as much as I dislike to say it, being a significant political figure like that has it's downsides - notably - you can't say whatever you please (freedom of speech) and expect people not to get seriously butt-hurt over it. He has every right to say what he thinks, but everyone else has every right to take it out of context and throw a shit fit. Especially when this particular religion has been under serious scrutiny and prejudice ever since (oh god, I can't believe I'm referencing it) 9/11.

Why? Because there are crazies out there who take political figures word as law. (Ie the crazies).

Thusly, we have returned to the problem - people being off their rocker. Life is cyclical like that.



You are wrong about people throwing a fit over what someone else says about their religion. They can throw a fit - they can say whatever they want - but when they begin breaking the law and threatening to kill people, it crosses the line. That is exactly where their freedom of expression ends. I would not have any problem if they had answered the Pope's theological argument with words - with arguments from their side. Not a problem there.

There is very clearly nothing in the Quran that states what you wrote - if it is your interpretation that is one thing. Saying that is the way it is - is another. The argument can be made that hijab is not a rule for all women at all times ...but I see not real support for asking a woman 3 times and then accepting her decision.

You are right - there are crazy people in all religions and also among people who claim no religion at all. And all those groups are subjected to the opinion of others - no religion has special protection. No religion should have special protection. I can tell you one thing - christians certainly have no special protection in my country. Muslims who live here have to accept to be subjected to the same thing. Same right for everyone.

Of course there are extremists in every religion - but in European countries honor killings, girls not being allowed to go to school, forced marriages have been a problem of muslim immigrants. Those are things that have to be addressed openly and honestlfy in our societies. If they do not they leave the field wide open for people like Wilder to step in and make people feel like he understands them and takes them seriously.
Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden.
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Pelopidas
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Pelopidas » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:31 pm

Mein Kamf? Its in my university library sure. Cant speak for other countries. We have neo-nazis in Greece, one of their leader was recently prosecuted for hate speech, against the Jews. But if they obey the laws they can exist yes.
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Mynerva » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:36 pm

Sidney wrote:
Are Nazi works really not legal in Austria? I mean, I understand they have suffered horrible because of the Nazis, but you really can't legally check out Mein Kampf from a library? I'm a little shocked, and have mixed feelings about that. It's certainly unsavory, but it is SUCH an important historical document!



I dont know about Austria - but you cannot get it here in Germany. You can get parts of the book for scholarly work but not the whole book. I agree with that law. We have certain very specific laws here that do not take away anyones freedom - they just make sense, considering our history and that the history is not so far in the past.

I read the book. It is not an important historical document. Trust me - it is mostly boring nonsense. The writing is worse than John Normans and more boring too.
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Victor. » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:17 pm

Junea Demonia wrote:
Sidney wrote:
Are Nazi works really not legal in Austria? I mean, I understand they have suffered horrible because of the Nazis, but you really can't legally check out Mein Kampf from a library? I'm a little shocked, and have mixed feelings about that. It's certainly unsavory, but it is SUCH an important historical document!



I dont know about Austria - but you cannot get it here in Germany. You can get parts of the book for scholarly work but not the whole book. I agree with that law. We have certain very specific laws here that do not take away anyones freedom - they just make sense, considering our history and that the history is not so far in the past.

I read the book. It is not an important historical document. Trust me - it is mostly boring nonsense. The writing is worse than John Normans and more boring too.


We got strict laws concerning reconfirmation in Austria - in general - it is forbidden to sustain or revive the NSDAP or organizations with evident connections to the former party or people following its ideology. To commit any crimes in the name of national socialist ideas (Adds to the penalty) and to publish any printings that deny the holocaust or spread and such body of thoughts.

Source + Additional Information for those speaking German (Could not find an English version of those passages yet - too lazy to translate either :o):
http://www.nachkriegsjustiz.at/service/ ... 3_1992.php

"Mein Kampf" is one of those printings black listed and therefore forbidden in Austria, not the ownership though since between 1933 and -45 each bridal couple got it and a lot of people DO want to read it for history studies or personal affairs etc. Can't borrow it from public libraries either by the way.
Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, die mit Eifer sucht, was Leiden schafft. // Jealousy is a passion, seeking zealously what causes suffering. Franz Grillparzer
Sidney
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Sidney » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:13 am

Interesting. I suspect they would know what is best for local people. Thanks for the information. I did not know that.
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Aphris » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:41 am

Sidney wrote:
Aphris wrote:Just get the newspaper, Wilders is not alone in Europe. Mrs Barbara Rosenkranz of the FPÖ wants to allow the publication of Nazi works in Austria. She thinks she makes a good chance at the presidency :pissed: Luckily the polls tell most Austrians have enough brains not to let that happen.


Are Nazi works really not legal in Austria?!


Its illegal to sell in Netehrlands too, you shall not find it in any library.

Sidney wrote: I mean, I understand they have suffered horrible because of the Nazis,

Other countries suffered much much worse under the nazi's. i think its forbidden for another reason. Austria is a good feeding ground for nazi ideas: leading nazi's as Hitler, Seijss-Inquart and Skorzeny were Austrians, and a part like the FPÖ shows that its stil slumbering at certain groups.
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Pingping Zhaoying » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:00 pm

Aphris wrote:Other countries suffered much much worse under the nazi's. i think its forbidden for another reason. Austria is a good feeding ground for nazi ideas: leading nazi's as Hitler, Seijss-Inquart and Skorzeny were Austrians, and a part like the FPÖ shows that its stil slumbering at certain groups.


I could name you some world leaders that are (were) whoreshipped all over the world and were as bad as the mentionned guys. History is not what was remembered in the media, but what happended in the past.
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Victor. » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:03 pm

Aphris wrote:
Other countries suffered much much worse under the nazi's. i think its forbidden for another reason. Austria is a good feeding ground for nazi ideas: leading nazi's as Hitler, Seijss-Inquart and Skorzeny were Austrians, and a part like the FPÖ shows that its stil slumbering at certain groups.


It's actually pretty damn sad how right you are with that post. It's scary how much ground the FPÖ wins election for election, a not insignificant part of Austrian youth is totally falling for the xenophobic chevy of our "right wing"-party, blaming everyone else but themselves for all the current deficits in the country. :roll:
Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, die mit Eifer sucht, was Leiden schafft. // Jealousy is a passion, seeking zealously what causes suffering. Franz Grillparzer
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Sabina Takakura » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:59 pm

Junea Demonia wrote:Of course there are extremists in every religion - but in European countries honor killings, girls not being allowed to go to school, forced marriages have been a problem of muslim immigrants. Those are things that have to be addressed openly and honestlfy in our societies. If they do not they leave the field wide open for people like Wilder to step in and make people feel like he understands them and takes them seriously.


I can understand how easily that door can be opened, however, I can't understand how people would walk through it.
I can only speak for my own mindset, and in this instance I can only compare it to things in the United States.
For instance, if a politician came in and said "We need to ____ (insert solution here, ie, stop breeding, lock up, deport, etc) all of the African American population in America. They are the reason there is so much crime."
People would throw a fit. It just wouldn't happen. Sure, one or two groups of people would stand up and agree, but as a majority it wouldn't stand.

There is plenty of evidence to support the above hypothetical statement by the politician - and plenty of evidence to counteract it. It's all a matter of how you skew the numbers and how you look at it. Are you taking into consideration cultural differences? Nature vs Nurture?
I guess I'm just not understanding how this man hasn't been laughed off completely.
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Aphris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:06 pm

Sabina Takakura wrote:There is plenty of evidence to support the above hypothetical statement by the politician - and plenty of evidence to counteract it. It's all a matter of how you skew the numbers and how you look at it. Are you taking into consideration cultural differences? Nature vs Nurture?
I guess I'm just not understanding how this man hasn't been laughed off completely.


Well, I worked at Kanaaleiland in Utrecht, there the police had to forbid certain groups to samble. The situation was so bad that we had to be escorted to our cars otherwise scooter boys would rob our laptops. And I only worked there shortly, did not live there. So if you live in a neighbourhood, where muslim boys call all Dutch women "whore" when they walk by, then i am not surprised if politician does anything at it you gonna vote Geert Wilders.

And if you happened to be a Jew, you going to here to sound of GAS sssssssssssss.
She smiled. "I have grown fond of the smell of bosk," said she. Kamchak smiled. He held his hand to the girl. "Ride with me, Aphris of Turia," said Kamchak of the Tuchuks. Image

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