Wilder-mania

Geert Wilders is...

... right about everything. Wilders for prime-minister of Dutchland!
1
4%
... right about everything. Wilders for prime-minister of Dutchland!
1
4%
... right about a lot of things. It is good he is around in Holland-country.
0
No votes
... right about a lot of things. It is good he is around in Holland-country.
0
No votes
... partially right about some things, but his sollutions aren't great.
0
No votes
... partially right about some things, but his sollutions aren't great.
0
No votes
... wrong about a lot of things, but it is good he is there, to teach those other politicans a lesson.
1
4%
... wrong about a lot of things, but it is good he is there, to teach those other politicans a lesson.
1
4%
... someone with bad sollutions and simplistic views, but he does say some true things.
2
8%
... someone with bad sollutions and simplistic views, but he does say some true things.
2
8%
... an ass and a drama-queen, who deals in fear-mongering and political theatrics.
5
21%
... an ass and a drama-queen, who deals in fear-mongering and political theatrics.
5
21%
... a danger, who should be stopped, using the law against him.
3
13%
... a danger, who should be stopped, using the law against him.
3
13%
 
Total votes: 24
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Alice McConnell
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Wilder-mania

Postby Alice McConnell » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:11 am

There are a lot of Dutchies here, so... I was wondering what they would make of the Wilders-phenomena in Holland.

To everyone not from the Netherlands: For a long time, the Netherlands did not have a significant party that 'opposed' foreigners. That changed, in the last decade or so. Now, we have a party that is large, in the polls, and could even become the largest party in the dutch parliament, led by a controversial politician, Geert Wilders. His most important message is that Islam is a danger, that all muslims are potentially dangerous, even if moderate, because Islam, itself, is not moderate at the core. He is also against the EU. Abroad, he is know mostly because of his connection to murdered film-maker Theo van Gogh (who made a film called 'submission' with someone named Ayaan Hirshi Ali), about the oppression of women in Islam. He himself made a 'documentary called 'fitna'.
http://www.geertwilders.nl/

So... what do you all make of him? Don't be afraid to flame, etc... after all, this is just off-topic forum talk, and we are all adults here (well, mostly. ;) )
Pingping Zhaoying
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Pingping Zhaoying » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:55 am

Wilders has named things that couldnt be said because of the political correctness of our society.

Just like we are considered to be savages if we dont pay for Hawai, we are named racist nazis, when we want to talk openly about the problems of a multicultural society.

A multicultural society, can not and does not exist.
Our society is formed and influenced by all members. Some of the members wish to condemn the society they live in, yet are so willing to be pampered and taken care for.
Our WestEuropean countries have proofed to be great in the Calimero-complex; must be the protestant thinking that influenced us.
We are guilty of hunger in this world, the global warming, the cold winter, racism, unfairness : you name it, we are guilty of it, but we can set it right.

Though I do not think Wilders has the solutions (if there are solutions at all) he speaks about things too many don't dare.
Makes him worth listening to, because others wont.
Pingping Zhaoying
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Pingping Zhaoying » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:01 am

And to those who choose to call him a fear-mongering and political theatre man.

Fear mongering are those that blame us for all sins of Israel. Global warming, Ice age, inactivity of the sun, you name it, they have used it against us. We will be cleared of the sins if we pay.
So whats the difference between Wilders and them ?
Sidney
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Sidney » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:41 am

I don't know much about him came from the one time he was in our news over a dispute about being banned from the UK. The only thing I remember about him was he was a advocate of 'Christian culture' and an islamophobe. As a born again atheist like myself, that is a lot like hating syphilis for the sake of promoting gonorrhea.
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Alice McConnell
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Alice McConnell » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:02 pm

Sidney wrote:I don't know much about him came from the one time he was in our news over a dispute about being banned from the UK. The only thing I remember about him was he was a advocate of 'Christian culture' and an islamophobe. As a born again atheist like myself, that is a lot like hating syphilis for the sake of promoting gonorrhea.


His claim is that Christianity has become 'tamed', sort of. That it has become used to secular government and more tolerant, therefore not a threat, but that this is not true for Islam.

(Not defending the guy... just clarifying the wanker's position).
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Sacha
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Sacha » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:12 pm

From what I've read Wilders, and the thing that concerns me most, is that whether or not he makes excellent points about societal ills he's doing it at the sake of focusing on specific elements, namely Muslims and immigrants, instead of focusing on the societal ills. Its fear mongering at least, and from what I understand its using public opinion which in my view makes any attempt to actually correct issues in society watered down because instead of trying to fix a problem, it becomes a blame game.

Wilders is as much a part of the society, and therefore responsible for the problems as well.

Sidney wrote: As a born again atheist like myself, that is a lot like hating syphilis for the sake of promoting gonorrhea.


This is gold.
This should be interesting.
Resolver Bouchard
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Resolver Bouchard » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:33 pm

Sidney wrote:I don't know much about him came from the one time he was in our news over a dispute about being banned from the UK. The only thing I remember about him was he was a advocate of 'Christian culture' and an islamophobe. As a born again atheist like myself, that is a lot like hating syphilis for the sake of promoting gonorrhea.


They also banned Michael Savage, various US preachers and apparently Martha Stewart (according to wikipedia).

I think all that proves is the current UK government are idiots. They managed to vastly inflate the international recognition of a minor right wing politician (no offense to our Dutch gorumites), if they had just let him come and rant in front of 50 people no one in America or the UK would have heard of him, I'm sure it helped increase his number of followers and influence in Holland as well.
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Alice McConnell
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Alice McConnell » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:42 pm

Oh, they are no worse that we dutchies ourselves... the court in Amsterdam decided it was needed to order the proscicution to charge Wilders and put him on trial before them (something of a novelty). So, now he has a free speech vs 'discrimination' court-case, which means free publicity and he can claim that the 'powers that be' are trying to shut him up, and that he is fighting for his freedom to express himself. His tactic is clever as well. He is arguing that if what he says is true, then it cannot be an insult to or discrimination of muslims. So, he makes his own belief the thing that is on trial.

Of course, many countries have right-wing politicians with anti-foreigner-sentiments. Le Pen, the National Party in the UK, De Winter in Belgium, and so forth. But in here, he might even end up as the largest party. Which, frankly... would be a disgrace.
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Carter » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:06 pm

This is an incredibly difficult situation to try and summarise but

1. He is discussing issues and fears of the public, which other main stream parties wont acknowledge or debate ... and therefore these members of the public feel "isolated" and "ignored" and will be drawn to somebody, they perceive as speaking about issues they want to be acknowledged.

2. Until other political parties start to address the "core" issues and concerns that people have about feeling isolated and disconnected in their own communties about Islam - he and others like him will gain popularity.

When he was banned from the UK I intially thought it was a good thing.. however, I now see that by refusing to allow his views to be debated openly, all we have done is to suppress and actually create a situation whereby those in the UK have had to seek extremist representation and voted for poltical organisations like the British National Party to feel their concerns are being heard...

The recent invite by the BBC to allow the leader of the British National Party (BNP) to go on a programme debating poltical issues was a major turning point I think.. we saw and heard the voice of the BNP without all the distortions of the mass media debating issues with the other UK Poltical Parties.. and I personally felt he showed his parties views to be the extremist rhetoric, dressed up in a way to look like he was addressing the fears of the WASPs - "White Anglo Saxon Prostestants"..

Its a bit like the IRA.. they didnt enjoy widespread support for their actions.. but Catholics felt the political wing of the IRA.."Sein Fein" was representing "some" of their fears about the social inequalities of an oppressive Protestant society in Northern Ireland.... hence.. 30 years of violence and death partly, because nobody else was listening.

Perhaps now the other main political parties will open their eyes and see their is a grain of truth and genuine concern in society about some Islamic behaviour and immigration issues.. which I personally feel is at the heart of this.. racial intolerance, hidden behind the fear of "Islam"
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Rob
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Re: Wilder-mania

Postby Rob » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:58 pm

Just a copy paste and some changes to fit this thread from my post in another thread and some elaboration.

Wilders, the installer of xenophobia in the Netherlands.

I meet people, at work, socially, some of them friends of mine, they do not read anything but newspaper headlines, they are uninformed, they refuse to look deeper into any subject yet have an opinion on pretty much everything. Trouble maker kids with a moroccan/turkish heritage, muslim by birth who are in reality third of fourth generation dutch kids cause them to say about all immigrants, no matter which generation: "Islam is bad and all of those Muslims are terrorists", "They should all be sent home!" and "Put them on an island and bomb it." They really believe this will solve many problems. They support higher punishment for all crimes, they support any measure that will harden our society.

They parrot oneliners from Wilders. They are fed by Wilders who gets their votes by putting fear and hate into people. A "politician" who is out to divide the country and turn it into an us and them situation, and he is succeeding in doing so. I know, when times are bad economically, people look for scapegoats and some idiots stand up wanting to play the blame game, but i had hoped we learned from our history, appearently, we have not.

I see people who i have known for a long time, i see them change into people full of hatred and fear towards anyone that could have anything to do with Islam, being Muslim, or having a middle eastern look.

The funny thing is, he is not even a Christian, he admitted to this many times. Yet, he uses words like judeo-christian culture like it applies to him. Wilders makes himself out to be a defender of free speech but it only applies to him because he can say everything he wants, yet others can not say about him what they want. For years now he has been invited by many muslim and other organisations to enter into a dialogue with them, yet he has declined every single invitation. We are having city level elections soon and all major parties are entering in debates on radio and tv, yet, he will not participate in any debate.

As Alice said, he is been charged by the courts for hate mongering and racsim. IN the time leading up to the trial he said he was relishing the opportunity and eagerly awaiting this trial. As soon as the judges said something he did not like he stated that he could not respoct this court anymore, the judges are not interested in the truth and the descision of the court was the sign of a totalitarian, dictatorial regime. Remember, this is a member of the Dutch parliament.

A member of the Dutch parliament who in this parliament proposed a "head scarf tax", wanting to tax muslim women for wearing their head scarfs in public because they are polluting the streets with those scarfs. When asked if the jewish women in Amsterdam who wear similar headwear should also be taxed, he of course, had no answer. That is his modus operandi. Shout alot, but offer no solutions. Time and time again when he took the floor in the parliament with his tirades, other members of parliament have asked him what his solutions are. He offers none.

A multicultural society, can not and does not exist? Yes it can, and it has existed here for a very long time. The problems that Wilders brings foreward are grossly exaggerated and overstated. He wants the military to police the streets and shoot on sight if needed. He has called out to people to go and buy Koran's and burn them publically. He calls the Koran the religious version of mein kampf, the fascist manifest of Mohammed.

So, he says what others are afraid to say? Well, we are royally screwed then.

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